Water Levels in Great Lakes Keep Rising

[ExiledInIllinois]

Great Lakes Water Levels to Keep Rising

 

ONLY RULE:

 

@Cripple Creek @CountryCletus CAN'T wreck or hijack a totally well intentioned thread! Experts only please!! Save your infant sized Type II PFD and water wings for the kiddie pool please!!! That means you @Gugny (Water Wings). And @BringBackFergy (Type II Infant PFD)!

 

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

What in the actual ***** is this?

[BUFFALOKIE]

My opinion: water is good.

 

Ask me again in 100 years. I think global warming is a true threat, but I don't think one to five year anomalys prove it. 

 

We have had, here in NE Oklahoma, unusually mild winters and summers for the last several years. Mostly comfortable, even. The extreme monsoons in the spring, and terrible drought in the fall have become predictable too (from a layman's pespective). 

 

Averages seem to average out.

 

 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

What in the actual ***** is this?

Drugs I assume 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

What in the actual ***** is this?

Water levels are rising!  Our upper pool at the lock is 11" higher than last year and 5.5 higher since 2014.  You how many billions, trillions if not more water that is!

 

Please, stick to the bunny slope and don't forget your helmet! 

[BUFFALOKIE]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

What in the actual ***** is this?

We are sciencing here. Put on your PPE and stand back.

[/dev/null]

22 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Great Lakes Water Levels to Keep Rising

 

And Leon's getting larger!

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

My opinion: water is good.

 

Ask me again in 100 years. I think global warming is a true threat, but I don't think one to five year anomalys prove it. 

 

We have had, here in NE Oklahoma, unusually mild winters and summers for the last several years. Mostly comfortable, even. The extreme monsoons in the spring, and terrible drought in the fall have become predictable too (from a layman's pespective). 

 

Averages seem to average out.

 

 

This isn't a 5 year anomaly.  A lake like L.Michigan is on a 100 cycle.  The last drop of water from 6/15/1919 is just leaving now.

 

On L.Erie... The last drop from 6/15/2016 is just leaving.  Erie is roughly on a 3 year cycle.

 

High water on Michigan-Huron follow royghly a 20 year cycle.  Last high water @ work in Chicago was 1997. Before that, which we are approaching now, the record I believe was in 1972.

[Cripple Creek]

17 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

What in the actual ***** is this?

Near as I can tell only experts should snow ski on the great lakes.

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 minutes ago, BUFFALOKIE said:

We are sciencing here. Put on your PPE and stand back.

Thanks... For keeping @Johnny Hammersticks safe!

 

I nominate you Jr. Corps Ranger!

 

Bobber the Water Safety Dog will present you with your badge at a tailgate!

 

 

3 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Near as I can tell only experts should snow ski on the great lakes.

Or dive into water threads (like you dive down a slope).  You can think outside the box a little.  Public school education?

 

You're breaking the only rule. Not that I mind.  I have it coming.

[BringBackFergy]

So water levels are rising in the lock/canal?? That happens when you close the gates and let the rainwater pour in. Have you ever filled a swimming pool? Same concept. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

24 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

So water levels are rising in the lock/canal?? That happens when you close the gates and let the rainwater pour in. Have you ever filled a swimming pool? Same concept. 

No.  Water is not rising on the canal end.

 

That's why the lock and dam exists.  To guard against the fluctuations.  The water in the canal is kept static.

 

The upper pool is L.Michigan.  That fluctuates. That's the "Head." Mutha nature dictates the elevation of the head.

 

The lock chamber is in middle

 

The canal end is the "Tail".  That is set by law 2 feet below flat pool. 

 

Flat pool is neither high nor low water of the head.  That flat pool elevation is +579.48' feet above mean sea level.  We just call that: "Zero gage."  We go off that.

 

Here is an example.  This means a boat will be raised or lowered exactly 6.48' (feet).  The lake is +4.09 or +583.57' above mean sea level.

 

10 years ago L.Michigan was rountinely in the negative... Like -1.25 feet. That means L.Michigan is roughly +5.25 feet higher in 2019 than in 2009.

 

We send the water, divert down when we aerate/oxygenate to combat pollution, add water to keep canal at 9 feet depth for navigation through dam or run the lock. That water in the canal is handled by next lock down, a 40 foot drop @ Lockport IllIllinois.  They generate power there with that 40 foot head.

 

So... The canal seldom gets out of joint between that -1.50 & -3.00 set in law by US Code. During rain events canal may rise into the positive... But it's quickly bled off at Lockport in a day or so.

 

If tail gets higher than head, we close. This in order to prevent backflow into Lake.

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[BringBackFergy]

^^^^^^ That entire explanation was copied and pasted from Wikipedia. Not my first day on the turnip truck. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Also... During rain events, when lots is expected... We will draw down that tail to make room for extra storage. But once event stops, will allow canal to go back to aroung -2.00'... Given the range in USC 33 CFR 207.425

 

USC 33 CFR $ 207.425

Just now, BringBackFergy said:

^^^^^^ That entire explanation was copied and pasted from Wikipedia. Not my first day on the turnip truck. 

LoL... I don't Wiki talks like me.  Nobody does!!! Cut Wiki some slack!

 

TJ O'Brien L/D

Of course water goed up and down in lock.  The lock is the water elevator around the dam.

[KD in CA]

Well sure, ALGORE warned us all the icebergs in the Great Lakes were going to melt.

[Gugny]

If the tail gets higher than the head for longer than four hours, get another Russian hooker to piss on you.

 

The locks can't clean the waters whilst dumping hydraulic fluid and RoundUp into said water.

 

I would never hijack a thread.  I am a responsible member of the TBD community and you have been reported for insinuating otherwise.

 

Thank you ... and goodnight.

[Augie]

If the carp pee in the water....that’s still a wash, right? 

[RaoulDuke79]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Drugs I assume 

Can't swing a dead cat around without hitting a doper these days. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Simple.  There’s been a lot of rain.  The lakes are high.  No need for quantum thermodynamics here.

 

What impact, if any, will this have on the Asian carp population?

[ExiledInIllinois]

34 minutes ago, Gugny said:

If the tail gets higher than the head for longer than four hours, get another Russian hooker to piss on you.

 

The locks can't clean the waters whilst dumping hydraulic fluid and RoundUp into said water.

 

I would never hijack a thread.  I am a responsible member of the TBD community and you have been reported for insinuating otherwise.

 

Thank you ... and goodnight.

 

Yes they can.  Next thing you'll tell me that when you take a dump and flush... The new toilet water is just as dirty as before the flush.

 

And it's really a "controlling works" because it acts just like the toilet in your house.  It's just a big azz one.

 

We would flush more water, dilute even more... But Illinois is bound by SCOTUS rulings going back over 100 years to NOT to divert more than ~4,000 cfs (cubic feet per second).  There you have it, the original "low flow" water closet.

 

Anyway... Back to original topic.  The Great Lakes are over flowing because winters have been more severe since 2014.  The more ice cover on Michigan-Huron & Erie supress Lake temps... So as during the main evaporation months of July and August there is less evaporation that falls outside the basin.  Rate of water accumulation beats the rate of abatement.  Which means more net water gain than goes out over the Niagara Falls and through Chicago for the middle three lakes.

[Kevbeau]

Activate the Carp Signal

Edited June 15, 2019 by Kevbeau

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Simple.  There’s been a lot of rain.  The lakes are high.  No need for quantum thermodynamics here.

 

What impact, if any, will this have on the Asian carp population?

None.  Asian carp sky is falling theory has been going on since 2009.  Where are they.

 

It's not the rain.  We have had a surplus... But Lake elevations have been building since the hard freeze of 2014.  Cleaner water also freezes better. Less evaporation.

 

Back to Asian carp. It's at low water that the silver carp tend to jump at.  If anything, during high water, they may escape via different routes.  Like through Indiana @ Fort Wayne to Maumee/Toledo and L.Erie... There are other avenues from the Ohio and Wabash rivers...

[BringBackFergy]

4 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

Yes they can.  Next thing you'll tell me that when you take a dump and flush... The new toilet water is just as dirty as before the flush.

 

And it's really a "controlling works" because it acts just like the toilet in your house.  It's just a big azz one.

 

We would flush more water, dilute even more... But Illinois is bound by SCOTUS rulings going back over 100 years to NOT to divert more than ~4,000 cfs (cubic feet per second).  There you have it, the original "low flow" water closet.

 

Anyway... Back to original topic.  The Great Lakes are over flowing because winters have been more severe since 2014.  The more ice cover on Michigan-Huron & Erie supress Lake temps... So as during the main evaporation months of July and August there is less evaporation that falls outside the basin.  Rate of water accumulation beats the rate of abatement.  Which means more net water gain than goes out over the Niagara Falls and through Chicago for the middle three lakes.

Here’s an idea: Let the river flow! (Carly Simon). What can it hurt? If people weren’t smart enough to build back from the river, let Mom Nature run her course. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

11 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Here’s an idea: Let the river flow! (Carly Simon). What can it hurt? If people weren’t smart enough to build back from the river, let Mom Nature run her course. 

We can't.  EDIT: "Can't" is wrong word.  We MAY not. It's breaking the law.  SCOTUS 1969 (and prior, '69 one of the latest) ruling only allows ~4,000 cfs to be released at Chicago.  That's why there are two controlling works.  One @ Chicago Harbor (Navy Pier) and the other where I am on SouthSide.

 

I can easy open both ends of the lock.  We are built for that.  A normal mitre gate lock can't, the pressure holds gates shut.  We have sector gates, can open against the pressure of the head.  We open both for the USCG during emergency runs.  There is a 6 foot wave now.

 

The law that governs is:

 

USC 33 CFR $ 207.425

 

The lower canal has to be maintained to this because we would be diverting too much water to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

Even a full breach of Lock & Dam would not flood people under normal conditions.  Lockport Lock & Dam would just hold back another 5-6 feet.  The levee around the holds to well over 10 feet.

Edited June 15, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[BringBackFergy]

2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

We can't.  It's breaking the law.  SCOTUS 1969 ruling only allows ~4,000 cfs to be released at Chicago.  That's why there are two controlling works.  One @ Chicago Harbor (Navy Pier) and the other where I am on SouthSide.

 

I can easy open both ends of the lock.  We are built for that.  A normal mitre gate lock can't, the pressure holds gates shut.  We have sector gates, can open against the pressure of the head.  We open both for the USCG during emergency runs.  There is a 6 foot wave now.

 

The law that governs is:

 

USC 33 CFR $ 207.425

 

The lower canal has to be maintained to this because we would be diverting too much water to the Gulf of Mexico.

 

Have you ever gone over 55 mph on a thruway?? Same idea. Let a little more water through the gates. Those 80 yr old geriatrics will never know. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now, BringBackFergy said:

Have you ever gone over 55 mph on a thruway?? Same idea. Let a little more water through the gates. Those 80 yr old geriatrics will never know. 

Yes.  If you notice the pic above... We are outside the law. The lower pool is too low.  What you're suggesting is going 125 in a 55.

 

That pic above is like 65 in a 55.

[BringBackFergy]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yes.  If you notice the pic above... We are outside the law. The lower pool is too low.  What you're suggesting is going 125 in a 55.

 

That pic above is like 65 in a 55.

Criminal!!!!! Reported!!!!

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

There is a water allowance.  We are running dam as we speak.  We can divert water through the chamber: 1,000'x110'... Old Panamax.  We also have 4 sluice gates on the dam (controlling works)... Those can raise 10 feet high... "40 feet" total across.

 

The wicket dams at Peoria and Beardstown are most likely down and boats are going over dam. Asian carp spawn.  They need 60+ miles of dam free river. 

13 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

Criminal!!!!! Reported!!!!

That's a draw down because we expect rain.  Totally within the wording of the law.  Read the link.  It's published through Cornell Law School, the link I used.

Edited June 15, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

On another note.  The more they dredge deep at Sarnia-Port Huron at mouth of L.Huron/head of St.Clair River... Dredge deep into the bedrock... More water is released down the St.Clair, through detroit and into Erie.

 

Food for thought.  It's like filling your bathroom sink basin up over the emergency overflow only to blast more of that hole lower. More will go down the drain through the straits and into Erie.

Edited June 15, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[LeGOATski]

And the dessert is getting wetter.

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

And the dessert is getting wetter.

 

You messing with Me? LMAO!

 

Where the hell did this @LeGOATski guy come from!  He's bringing his A-game and all-stars like @Cripple Creek & @CountryCletus are going 0-fer.

 

I like your style!  

[Buffalo_Gal]

They could turn on the spigot from Lake Ontario to the St Lawrence Seaway  instead of letting the marshes fill naturally to "protect wildlife".  ?‍♀️

[ExiledInIllinois]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

They could turn on the spigot from Lake Ontario to the St Lawrence Seaway  instead of letting the marshes fill naturally to "protect wildlife".  ?‍♀️

But that's been the problem with L.Ontario the last few decades! It is the one Lake that stays static elevation-wise... Because of the slack water, locks & dams system built in 1959.

 

All the Lakes need to go through this high-low water cleanse cycle.  Ontario needs to go high, fill in marshes.  Smallies, monster ones are going insane where I work.  The high water habitat flooded the reeds, grasses, couple that with the man-made structure and they are gobbling up small prey!  Bass love invasives like round gobies!

 

For years they kept Ontario elevation static because of low water and to maintain the draft needed for the salties to come up The St.Lawrence. What made Toronto, killed Buffalo.  26 foot project depth is not an issue now. Let Ontario fill up with what Superior, Michigan-Huron, & Erie are giving it!   

 

"...Lake Huron rolls, superior sings
In the rooms of her ice-water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams
The islands and bays are for sportsmen

And farther below lake Ontario
Takes in what lake Erie can send her..."

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

I betcha they are really screaming bloody muder on Georgian Bay... The Niagara Escarpment goes under L.Huron at the mouth of the bay.  Georgian Bay is like another basin off of Huron... All that water pouring in.  From 2000-2014 the docks were jutting out into beach.  Now all that added property has to be under water!

 

I haven't looked it up... But Michigan-Huron is up 5.5 FEET in last 5 years.  That's a hell of tide on geography that slopes only a few feet ovet hundreds of yards!

[Gray Beard]

5 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

I betcha they are really screaming bloody muder on Georgian Bay... The Niagara Escarpment goes under L.Huron at the mouth of the bay.  Georgian Bay is like another basin off of Huron... All that water pouring in.  From 2000-2014 the docks were jutting out into beach.  Now all that added property has to be under water!

 

I haven't looked it up... But Michigan-Huron is up 5.5 FEET in last 5 years.  That's a hell of tide on geography that slopes only a few feet ovet hundreds of yards!

When the lake effect snow comes from Georgian Bay, Utica and Syracuse get clobbered. I wish they could drain that part of the lake. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now, Gray Beard said:

When the lake effect snow comes from Georgian Bay, Utica and Syracuse get clobbered. I wish they could drain that part of the lake. 

Yeah... Because thats the fetch of the Bay pointed right at Syracuse and then added with Ontario.

 

Geologically the Bay is a spill over from Huron.  The Niagara Escarpment goes under water there and pops up again rounding and impounding Huron and L.Michigan all the way down through Door County, Green Bay into Lower Wisconsin:

 

 

[Marv's Neighbor]

This is what makes the world go round.  It's not just a Great Lakes "problem."   Weather has Always been cyclical, and really is uncontrolled by all the hand wringers..

 

Last year central Europe had a very dry Spring/Summer.  That dropped the water levels in the Danube, Maine, and to a lesser extent the Rhine.  This year, mostly back to normal, to above normal levels.  Really screwed up the river cruise business with the low water.  The controlling river authority(s) closed portions of the rivers, at various times.

 

Passau Germany sits at the confluence of three rivers, and had the worst floods in 500 years, in 2013.  Last year high and dry, this year back to normal.  All these rivers are controlled by a series of locks to facilitate barge transportation, and to a lesser extent river cruise ships but there's only so much of nature that ever really gets "controlled."  At least Passau had the benefit of 500+ years of weather/river data to compare.  While We're still falling back on geology to try to figure it out.

[LeGOATski]

3 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

You messing with Me? LMAO!

 

Where the hell did this @LeGOATski guy come from!  He's bringing his A-game and all-stars like @Cripple Creek & @CountryCletus are going 0-fer.

 

I like your style!  

Vaguely on/off topic is how I like to roll.

[/dev/null]

 

[Gugny]

4 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Cleaner water also freezes better. Less evaporation.

 

This makes no sense.  How does polluted water increase evaporation????!!!!