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Tipster19

I’m proud of our Bills.

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12 hours ago, MichaelAbdallah said:

Josh Allen is the singular reason why we are currently feeling optimistic about the Bills. I can recall a variety of similar feel-good stories and general positivity with each previous regime post-Levy that the football media fed us. But none of that mattered because Todd Collins sucked, Rob Johnson sucked, Doug Flutie sucked, Drew Bledsoe sucked, JP Losman sucked, Trent Edwards sucked, Ryan Fitzpatrick sucked, EJ Manuel sucked, and Tyrod Taylor sucked. But Josh Allen feels different from all of the aforementioned. He has an impressive collection of QB skills and attributes (physical but also mental) that none of those guys ever had. And at the moment, he DOES NOT YET DEFINITIVELY SUCK.

 

You must be a young fan.   Bledsoe certainly did not suck.  In 2002, his first season in Buffalo, he set single season records for yards, attempts, and completions.  Better than Kelly Reed Lofton Thurman days.  The dude was the youngest player in NFL history to hit the 10,000-yard mark (played in pro bowl at age 22), and was well over 4,000 yards passing that awesome year with Moulds and Peerless going over 1250 yds each. 

 

He was #2 in the league in passing that year, ahead of Manning, Brady, Brees, Favre (I assume you've heard of those guys).  That's not sucking, that's being awesome.

 

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2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Give the defense most of the credit.  

 

Flute had some moments of joy.  He was fun to watch (sometimes). He got some wins.  I don’t think Flutie “sucked”.  I’m sure he wasn’t “good”.  Somewhere in between, which isn’t very good when you’re a QB.  You need to be more than that.

 

 

I think this is the point OP was trying to make. The somewhere in between doesn't get the job done. Facing teams like KC or the Pats in this day and age requires above average play from the QB position. Odds are without a good QB going deep into the playoffs are slim. Odds are winning a Championship requires going through arguably the best QB that every played the game in Tom Brady.

 

Lots riding on the big shoulders of Josh Allen...

 

...One Buffalo Strong...

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14 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Of course winning is big and right or wrong that’s how they are going to be judged because that’s the nature of the beast.

 

Looking past that though I see something  different about them. When I pulled up a link from the Bills’ app I noticed something collectively about them. Every one of them are wearing some of the best smiles. 

 

There’s something to be said about this culture thing. These guys are out there in the community doing positive things. I know that our teams in the past and other teams’ do as well but our guys appear to be genuinely having a blast. The children looked thrilled as well. Players impacting young lives and making fantastic memories for these kids, honing their imaginations, reinforcing great self esteem in themselves. Yeah, I’m proud of them.

 

Results are never fast enough but I do believe that the Bills are doing it the right way and hopefully in the very near future (1 or 2 seasons) they will be very competitive year after year, sustaining all the teaching and training that has poured into them these last few years.

 

I think that I see in a change in them and I just wanted to recognize it/them. Kudos to Beane and McDermott for all the invested time that they spent in trying to make a difference in a franchise, team, players, fans and in general the whole community. We’re fortunate to have them. I think that the Bills have finally got it right. 👍🏻👏👏👏

 

Check out how the players and children interacted. Looks like that they all had a great time.

 

Bills Mobile: Bills Play 60 Field Day at Hillview Elementary
 

https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/bills-play-60-field-day-at-hillview-elementary

 

i am proud of the steps they have taken....that is a separate issue then production.   I would now like to be proud of a playoff team.

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10 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

 

You must be a young fan.   Bledsoe certainly did not suck.  In 2002, his first season in Buffalo, he set single season records for yards, attempts, and completions.  Better than Kelly Reed Lofton Thurman days.  The dude was the youngest player in NFL history to hit the 10,000-yard mark (played in pro bowl at age 22), and was well over 4,000 yards passing that awesome year with Moulds and Peerless going over 1250 yds each. 

 

He was #2 in the league in passing that year, ahead of Manning, Brady, Brees, Favre (I assume you've heard of those guys).  That's not sucking, that's being awesome.

 

 

I was clearly being flippant when I posted that. By "suck" I mean wasn't a "franchise QB" while in Buffalo. Flutie, Bledsoe, Fitzpatrick, Taylor...all of these guys were more mediocre than bad. By the way, I'm actually 37 years old and have been following this team religiously since the Bickering Bills of 1989. I'm well aware of Bledsoe's 2002 season, but I also remember him kind of sucking for the rest of that season after a post-Halloween game against the Patriots.

 

To the Flutie apologists: I'm not going to delve into this tired topic, but those Wade Phillips defenses were outstanding and carried those teams in the late 90's...and you know it. Flutie's unpredictable scrambling ability was certainly preferable to Rob Johnson's inevitable sack/turnover/injury, but Flutie was always just a "meh" QB. Maybe not "suck," but just "meh." By the way, I still vividly remember names like Jerry Ostroski, Jamie Nails, Corbin Lacina, Billy Conaty, Victor Allotey, and Joe Panos. Neither QB was ever going to win a Super Bowl behind that garbage OL, so I'm completely over that era of Bills football. You should be too.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Give the defense most of the credit.  

 

Flute had some moments of joy.  He was fun to watch (sometimes). He got some wins.  I don’t think Flutie “sucked”.  I’m sure he wasn’t “good”.  Somewhere in between, which isn’t very good when you’re a QB.  You need to be more than that.

 

 

 

Best QB win loss record since Kelly's Glory days, made the pro bowl, led us to the playoffs...but yeah we can say he was good.

 

C'mon man...he wasn't great but overall Flutie was a good QB for us. You have to score points and protect the ball to win even with the greatest of defenses as we've seen over the drought. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

Yes and he was a cancer on the team. Not a process guy & not a guy with the physical attributes to make it through an entire NFL season.

 

 

Any knowledgeable fan can say with confidence he would have won that Titans wildcard game...and people call him a cancer cause he and half the team was furious. The same Titans team we had against the ropes went on to barely lose the superbowl. That was our year to take the AFC. Ralph not only let Flutie down but the whole team who worked so hard to get there by deciding to start RJ.

 

Since when is part of the "process" getting benched for your back up after an 11-5 season?? Being a process guy doesn't include letting yourself get run over and done any kind of way ESPECIALLY when your own coach agrees with you but the owner stepped in and made a ridiculous decision. He didn't cause the locker room to split. That naturally happened with that BS move Ralph pulled.

Edited by StHustle
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1 hour ago, StHustle said:

 

Best QB win loss record since Kelly's Glory days, made the pro bowl, led us to the playoffs...but yeah we can say he was good.

 

C'mon man...he wasn't great but overall Flutie was a good QB for us. You have to score points and protect the ball to win even with the greatest of defenses as we've seen over the drought. 

 

 

 

 

Any knowledgeable fan can say with confidence he would have won that Titans wildcard game...and people call him a cancer cause he and half the team was furious. The same Titans team we had against the ropes went on to barely lose the superbowl. That was our year to take the AFC. Ralph not only let Flutie down but the whole team who worked so hard to get there by deciding to start RJ.

 

Since when is part of the "process" getting benched for your back up after an 11-5 season?? Being a process guy doesn't include letting yourself get run over and done any kind of way ESPECIALLY when your own coach agrees with you but the owner stepped in and made a ridiculous decision. He didn't cause the locker room to split. That naturally happened with that BS move Ralph pulled.

He was bleh imo.  Tyrod esque 

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

 

Flutie sucked?

 

1998: 7-3

1999: 10-5

2000: 4-1

 

All 3 seasons he won at least twice as many games as he lost and was a pro bowler on top of the last QB to lead us to a playoff appearance before the drought. 

 

He sucked tho according to you....smh

 

And don't give the defense all the credit for his win/loss record. We had many great defensive years during the drought. 

Flutie was a poor man's Trent Dilfer. It WAS our #1 ranked Wade Phillips defense that lead to success. Lost in the RJ/Flutie debate was the fact that NEITHER of them were good. That was a SB caliber team if they had a real QB.

14 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Agreed. Flutie sucked. Granted, he was a ‘try hard, never quit’ guy who garnered the admiration of every under sized, under skilled underdog, but for the most part we won despite him. For all the meddling Ralph was infamous for, I agreed with demanding Rob Johnson start. It’s been a point of contention in my household since (Son was a ‘Flutie guy’) and it doesn’t help my cause that Johnson was a dud. But we had Super Bowl talent all over those teams, sans QB, and we had to try something other than the freak to capitalize on it. $25M & a 1st Rd pick to Jacksonville sealed our fate.

Flutie really light it up in San Diego! Well, that one game against us anyways. Most overrated(by some) player in franchise history.

8 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

 

You must be a young fan.   Bledsoe certainly did not suck.  In 2002, his first season in Buffalo, he set single season records for yards, attempts, and completions.  Better than Kelly Reed Lofton Thurman days.  The dude was the youngest player in NFL history to hit the 10,000-yard mark (played in pro bowl at age 22), and was well over 4,000 yards passing that awesome year with Moulds and Peerless going over 1250 yds each. 

 

He was #2 in the league in passing that year, ahead of Manning, Brady, Brees, Favre (I assume you've heard of those guys).  That's not sucking, that's being awesome.

 

Losing to the Harrisburg Steelers for a playoff spot erases anything positive Bledsoe did in a Bills uniform.

Edited by LSHMEAB

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

 

You must be a young fan.   Bledsoe certainly did not suck.  In 2002, his first season in Buffalo, he set single season records for yards, attempts, and completions.  Better than Kelly Reed Lofton Thurman days.  The dude was the youngest player in NFL history to hit the 10,000-yard mark (played in pro bowl at age 22), and was well over 4,000 yards passing that awesome year with Moulds and Peerless going over 1250 yds each. 

 

He was #2 in the league in passing that year, ahead of Manning, Brady, Brees, Favre (I assume you've heard of those guys).  That's not sucking, that's being awesome.

 

Nah. He sucked.

 

He was great for 8 games. Then he was bad for his remaining 2 1/2 years in Buffalo. 

 

Dude should've been kicked to the curb after that atrocious 2003 season. He was downright awful.

 

Edited by ScottLaw
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6 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

Best QB win loss record since Kelly's Glory days, made the pro bowl, led us to the playoffs...but yeah we can say he was good.

 

C'mon man...he wasn't great but overall Flutie was a good QB for us. You have to score points and protect the ball to win even with the greatest of defenses as we've seen over the drought. 

 

 

 

 

Any knowledgeable fan can say with confidence he would have won that Titans wildcard game...and people call him a cancer cause he and half the team was furious. The same Titans team we had against the ropes went on to barely lose the superbowl. That was our year to take the AFC. Ralph not only let Flutie down but the whole team who worked so hard to get there by deciding to start RJ.

Please. Flutie had his chance in the playoffs the previous year and he lost to a team that lost the following week by 100 points. Fumbled the game away. RJ lost (on a pretty rare play) to a team that went to the SB.

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8 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

 

You must be a young fan.   Bledsoe certainly did not suck.  In 2002, his first season in Buffalo, he set single season records for yards, attempts, and completions.  Better than Kelly Reed Lofton Thurman days.  The dude was the youngest player in NFL history to hit the 10,000-yard mark (played in pro bowl at age 22), and was well over 4,000 yards passing that awesome year with Moulds and Peerless going over 1250 yds each. 

 

He was #2 in the league in passing that year, ahead of Manning, Brady, Brees, Favre (I assume you've heard of those guys).  That's not sucking, that's being awesome.

 

Bledsoe had all of the talent in the world. If he could have run better...who knows!

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22 hours ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

Hugs and cookies for all!

 

Excellent!   Every team picture has the same crap.

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8 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

Best QB win loss record since Kelly's Glory days, made the pro bowl, led us to the playoffs...but yeah we can say he was good.

 

C'mon man...he wasn't great but overall Flutie was a good QB for us. You have to score points and protect the ball to win even with the greatest of defenses as we've seen over the drought. 

 

 

 

 

Any knowledgeable fan can say with confidence he would have won that Titans wildcard game...and people call him a cancer cause he and half the team was furious. The same Titans team we had against the ropes went on to barely lose the superbowl. That was our year to take the AFC. Ralph not only let Flutie down but the whole team who worked so hard to get there by deciding to start RJ.

 

Since when is part of the "process" getting benched for your back up after an 11-5 season?? Being a process guy doesn't include letting yourself get run over and done any kind of way ESPECIALLY when your own coach agrees with you but the owner stepped in and made a ridiculous decision. He didn't cause the locker room to split. That naturally happened with that BS move Ralph pulled.

 

Color me unknowedgable then. 

 

Any semi-knowledgeable fan knows Johnson put us IN THE LEAD with 16 seconds left against the AFCs best team that year and was undefeated at Home. The change was made because that isn’t opponent criteria Flutie ever won an NFL game in.

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14 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

 

Any knowledgeable fan can say with confidence he would have won that Titans wildcard game...

 

 

 

HàaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

oh wait, you were serious?

 

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

hoo man that was a knee-slapper

7 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Please. Flutie had his chance in the playoffs the previous year and he lost to a team that lost the following week by 100 points. Fumbled the game away. RJ lost (on a pretty rare play) to a team that went to the SB.

 

^ this is what knowledgeable fans know, sthustle

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Please. Flutie had his chance in the playoffs the previous year and he lost to a team that lost the following week by 100 points. Fumbled the game away. RJ lost (on a pretty rare play) to a team that went to the SB.

Do you seriously think Rob Johnson was the better QB? Should we have replaced J K with Reich because of what Kelly did the 3 previous Superbowls? No, of course not, you stick to what got you there. If there was such things as football gods and bad karma do you think benching the magic flute for surfer dude earned us any brownie points? Music City miracle should have never happened.

 

One football god says to another " Buffalo doesn't deserve a good QB"

 

Other football god snickers and says " Lets give them good CB's instead" 

 

I'm just saying...

 

(Sorry OP for straying off topic)

Edited by Figster

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I'm proud of us Bills fans that we are able to recognize what we have and be grateful no matter what.  Lets all give ourselves a round of applause.  I'm also very proud of myself and this thread that I enhanced with my posts.  Lets all give me a big round of applause!!  And lets all give three cheers for lithium!!!! Hip, hip...Hooray!!!

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2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I'm proud of us Bills fans that we are able to recognize what we have and be grateful no matter what.  Lets all give ourselves a round of applause.  I'm also very proud of myself and this thread that I enhanced with my posts.  Lets all give me a big round of applause!!  And lets all give three cheers for lithium!!!! Hip, hip...Hooray!!!

Thread kinda gives talking football X's and O's a whoke new meaning.

 

Hugs for all...

 

...kisses for the Mrs...

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6 hours ago, Figster said:

Do you seriously think Rob Johnson was the better QB? Should we have replaced J K with Reich because of what Kelly did the 3 previous Superbowls? No, of course not, you stick to what got you there. If there was such things as football gods and bad karma do you think benching the magic flute for surfer dude earned us any brownie points? Music City miracle should have never happened.

 

 

I don't believe in karma or football gods, but I think Flutie and RJ were pretty interchangeable. Neither one of them was particularly good. RJ played well enough to win, but stuff happens. And no, I wouldn't have replaced Kelly with Reich. It KINDA seems like you're comparing DOUG FLUTIE to JIM KELLY. That's pretty out there. I'll call it a day and leave the Flutie/RJ stuff alone. Dead horse.

 

As to the OP, "proud" seems like an odd choice of words, but we certainly have some likable players. I'll personally like them quite a bit more if they win a lot of games.

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1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

I don't believe in karma or football gods, but I think Flutie and RJ were pretty interchangeable. Neither one of them was particularly good. RJ played well enough to win, but stuff happens. And no, I wouldn't have replaced Kelly with Reich. It KINDA seems like you're comparing DOUG FLUTIE to JIM KELLY. That's pretty out there. I'll call it a day and leave the Flutie/RJ stuff alone. Dead horse.

 

As to the OP, "proud" seems like an odd choice of words, but we certainly have some likable players. I'll personally like them quite a bit more if they win a lot of games.

Fair enough,  it is a dead horse. For the record I liked Flutie, but at the time was wanting Rob Johnson to start. 

 

So there's that...

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Figster said:

Fair enough,  it is a dead horse. For the record I liked Flutie, but at the time was wanting Rob Johnson to start. 

 

So there's that...

Ok. I'll say one LAST thing on this; part of the reason I didn't like Flutie was that it didn't feel like the "Bills." Very hard to articulate or quantify, but it felt like something very different. He had a legion of (NON BILLS) fans that came out of the woodwork to prop him up and subtly dismiss the rest of the team. "He MADE Moulds" was one of my "favorites." Yeah, they had a nice rapport, but they acted like Doug Flutie picked up some bum on the street and turned him into an All-Pro receiver. Then I'd watch the NFL PrimeTime highlights of a game we won 14-10 on the back of the defense and see nothing but the jump pass he completed for a few yards. For that reason, I'm biased...so there's that.:beer:

Edited by LSHMEAB
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On 6/10/2019 at 10:23 AM, MJS said:

Just wait till Josh throws a pick in the first preseason game. It'll be back to doom and gloom.

and everythiing will be forgotten when Josh leads to back-to-back road wins.   This season is going to be a roller-coaster ride with Josh Allen and the Bills. 

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I made an index of Bills QB's that scored them on yards per game, TD's per game, interception percentage, wins, playoff appearances, and a bunch of other metrics. Doug Flutie scored pretty well and was one of our better QB's. Rob Johnson did not do well. I think the difference is that Flutie, despite his shortcomings, frequently got the job done and won games.

 

But the debate goes on 20 years later. The biggest QB controversy ever keeps marching on.

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1 hour ago, MJS said:

I made an index of Bills QB's that scored them on yards per game, TD's per game, interception percentage, wins, playoff appearances, and a bunch of other metrics. Doug Flutie scored pretty well and was one of our better QB's. Rob Johnson did not do well. I think the difference is that Flutie, despite his shortcomings, frequently got the job done and won games.

 

But the debate goes on 20 years later. The biggest QB controversy ever keeps marching on.

Well, it is the offseason, after all.

I'd like to see that index. 

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