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Tipster19

I’m proud of our Bills.

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I'm proud of us Bills fans that we are able to recognize what we have and be grateful no matter what.  Lets all give ourselves a round of applause.  I'm also very proud of myself and this thread that I enhanced with my posts.  Lets all give me a big round of applause!!  And lets all give three cheers for lithium!!!! Hip, hip...Hooray!!!

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2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I'm proud of us Bills fans that we are able to recognize what we have and be grateful no matter what.  Lets all give ourselves a round of applause.  I'm also very proud of myself and this thread that I enhanced with my posts.  Lets all give me a big round of applause!!  And lets all give three cheers for lithium!!!! Hip, hip...Hooray!!!

Thread kinda gives talking football X's and O's a whoke new meaning.

 

Hugs for all...

 

...kisses for the Mrs...

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6 hours ago, Figster said:

Do you seriously think Rob Johnson was the better QB? Should we have replaced J K with Reich because of what Kelly did the 3 previous Superbowls? No, of course not, you stick to what got you there. If there was such things as football gods and bad karma do you think benching the magic flute for surfer dude earned us any brownie points? Music City miracle should have never happened.

 

 

I don't believe in karma or football gods, but I think Flutie and RJ were pretty interchangeable. Neither one of them was particularly good. RJ played well enough to win, but stuff happens. And no, I wouldn't have replaced Kelly with Reich. It KINDA seems like you're comparing DOUG FLUTIE to JIM KELLY. That's pretty out there. I'll call it a day and leave the Flutie/RJ stuff alone. Dead horse.

 

As to the OP, "proud" seems like an odd choice of words, but we certainly have some likable players. I'll personally like them quite a bit more if they win a lot of games.

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1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said:

I don't believe in karma or football gods, but I think Flutie and RJ were pretty interchangeable. Neither one of them was particularly good. RJ played well enough to win, but stuff happens. And no, I wouldn't have replaced Kelly with Reich. It KINDA seems like you're comparing DOUG FLUTIE to JIM KELLY. That's pretty out there. I'll call it a day and leave the Flutie/RJ stuff alone. Dead horse.

 

As to the OP, "proud" seems like an odd choice of words, but we certainly have some likable players. I'll personally like them quite a bit more if they win a lot of games.

Fair enough,  it is a dead horse. For the record I liked Flutie, but at the time was wanting Rob Johnson to start. 

 

So there's that...

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18 minutes ago, Figster said:

Fair enough,  it is a dead horse. For the record I liked Flutie, but at the time was wanting Rob Johnson to start. 

 

So there's that...

Ok. I'll say one LAST thing on this; part of the reason I didn't like Flutie was that it didn't feel like the "Bills." Very hard to articulate or quantify, but it felt like something very different. He had a legion of (NON BILLS) fans that came out of the woodwork to prop him up and subtly dismiss the rest of the team. "He MADE Moulds" was one of my "favorites." Yeah, they had a nice rapport, but they acted like Doug Flutie picked up some bum on the street and turned him into an All-Pro receiver. Then I'd watch the NFL PrimeTime highlights of a game we won 14-10 on the back of the defense and see nothing but the jump pass he completed for a few yards. For that reason, I'm biased...so there's that.:beer:

Edited by LSHMEAB
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On 6/10/2019 at 10:23 AM, MJS said:

Just wait till Josh throws a pick in the first preseason game. It'll be back to doom and gloom.

and everythiing will be forgotten when Josh leads to back-to-back road wins.   This season is going to be a roller-coaster ride with Josh Allen and the Bills. 

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I made an index of Bills QB's that scored them on yards per game, TD's per game, interception percentage, wins, playoff appearances, and a bunch of other metrics. Doug Flutie scored pretty well and was one of our better QB's. Rob Johnson did not do well. I think the difference is that Flutie, despite his shortcomings, frequently got the job done and won games.

 

But the debate goes on 20 years later. The biggest QB controversy ever keeps marching on.

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1 hour ago, MJS said:

I made an index of Bills QB's that scored them on yards per game, TD's per game, interception percentage, wins, playoff appearances, and a bunch of other metrics. Doug Flutie scored pretty well and was one of our better QB's. Rob Johnson did not do well. I think the difference is that Flutie, despite his shortcomings, frequently got the job done and won games.

 

But the debate goes on 20 years later. The biggest QB controversy ever keeps marching on.

Well, it is the offseason, after all.

I'd like to see that index. 

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1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

Well, it is the offseason, after all.

I'd like to see that index. 

Too big to post here in its entirety (I indexed every QB who ever started a game for the Bills across 24 different metrics)

 

I wanted to look at pure effectiveness and efficiency, so I looked at game by game effectiveness, not overall production. So someone who started one game could potentially outscore someone who started for 10 years (in fact we see with with Matt Barkley, who scores high in the index). The exceptions to this is I scored playoff appearances, championships, pro bowl selections, times all-pro/all-afl, etc. I also included comebacks and game winning drives. So those aren't just game by game efficiency metrics, but I thought they were indicators of successful QBing and should be included. I also included playoff games and playoff stats for these QB's.

 

Top 10 QB's in the index:

image.png.a223c487037d110fe3c87d504bded35c.png

(Blue indicates a playoff starting QB. Red indicates current QB's on the team today)

 

Kemp got major points from having 6 all-star appearances, 2 championships (I counted these the same as an AFC championship game), being 3 time All-AFL, and 1 time AFL MVP. He's a highly decorated QB.

 

Bottom 10:

image.png.80d46e303d5a711d2ecae07478267d54.png

(Nathan Peterman was not much higher than these. His saving grace was getting a single win, even though he didn't technically finish that game)

 

Josh Allen ranked 17th, just after Trent Edwards and Rob Johnson. Ryan Fitzpatrick is 12th. His case is interesting because he had decent numbers but horrible W/L numbers. EJ Manuel is at 23rd, just after JP Losman.

 

Considering eras these guys played in, I consider Brian Brohm to be the worst QB to ever start a game for the Bills.

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How fully baked was the OP Sunday night?

 

Wow....

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21 hours ago, MJS said:

Too big to post here in its entirety (I indexed every QB who ever started a game for the Bills across 24 different metrics)

 

I wanted to look at pure effectiveness and efficiency, so I looked at game by game effectiveness, not overall production. So someone who started one game could potentially outscore someone who started for 10 years (in fact we see with with Matt Barkley, who scores high in the index). The exceptions to this is I scored playoff appearances, championships, pro bowl selections, times all-pro/all-afl, etc. I also included comebacks and game winning drives. So those aren't just game by game efficiency metrics, but I thought they were indicators of successful QBing and should be included. I also included playoff games and playoff stats for these QB's.

 

Top 10 QB's in the index:

image.png.a223c487037d110fe3c87d504bded35c.png

(Blue indicates a playoff starting QB. Red indicates current QB's on the team today)

 

Kemp got major points from having 6 all-star appearances, 2 championships (I counted these the same as an AFC championship game), being 3 time All-AFL, and 1 time AFL MVP. He's a highly decorated QB.

 

Bottom 10:

image.png.80d46e303d5a711d2ecae07478267d54.png

(Nathan Peterman was not much higher than these. His saving grace was getting a single win, even though he didn't technically finish that game)

 

Josh Allen ranked 17th, just after Trent Edwards and Rob Johnson. Ryan Fitzpatrick is 12th. His case is interesting because he had decent numbers but horrible W/L numbers. EJ Manuel is at 23rd, just after JP Losman.

 

Considering eras these guys played in, I consider Brian Brohm to be the worst QB to ever start a game for the Bills.

Interesting stuff! Thanks!

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