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Josh Allen vs Daniel Jones

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1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Yup Watkins was incredibly talented, but the rest of the draft just didnt justify that move. Soooooo deep at WR, trading up for one was incredibly short sighted 

I was on record for wanting Evans, who would have been gone by the Bills original pick. Watkins was one of the most dominant college receivers I have ever seen.  OBJ wasn’t close to what he became.  Then there was Benjamin.  

 

Trading up for a non qb in the draft is usually a bad move (this new regime continues to do this as well).  But Watkins was head and shoulders above any receiver in that class.  Playing in our high school offense with bad qbs and injuries killed his career.  Still the best offensive coaches want him on their teams.  And for the 6th in a row, I’m predicting a monster year out of him! 😎

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58 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I was on record for wanting Evans, who would have been gone by the Bills original pick. Watkins was one of the most dominant college receivers I have ever seen.  OBJ wasn’t close to what he became.  Then there was Benjamin.  

 

Trading up for a non qb in the draft is usually a bad move (this new regime continues to do this as well).  But Watkins was head and shoulders above any receiver in that class.  Playing in our high school offense with bad qbs and injuries killed his career.  Still the best offensive coaches want him on their teams.  And for the 6th in a row, I’m predicting a monster year out of him! 😎

ehhhhh.  i don't think this is the case at all.  sammy has damaged sammy's career.  he's been on two other teams with very high end qbs, and still hasn't produced.  to blame that on the bills is very misplaced.  

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4 minutes ago, teef said:

ehhhhh.  i don't think this is the case at all.  sammy has damaged sammy's career.  he's been on two other teams with very high end qbs, and still hasn't produced.  to blame that on the bills is very misplaced.  

Has he lived up to the draft selection? Of course not.  His foot injury, imo, has lingered with him.  But again, he has been a starter on the nfl’s 1 offense 2 years in a row for 2 different teams.  

 

While Sammy hasn’t produced the big number, he is still a big threat that defenses have to account for.  I worry that don’t have enough of those threats.  I guess the hope is that Foster is more of the 2nd half guy than the 1st/ college Foster.  IMO, Brown isn’t big enough to be that guy. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I was on record for wanting Evans, who would have been gone by the Bills original pick. Watkins was one of the most dominant college receivers I have ever seen.  OBJ wasn’t close to what he became.  Then there was Benjamin.  

 

Trading up for a non qb in the draft is usually a bad move (this new regime continues to do this as well).  But Watkins was head and shoulders above any receiver in that class.  Playing in our high school offense with bad qbs and injuries killed his career.  Still the best offensive coaches want him on their teams.  And for the 6th in a row, I’m predicting a monster year out of him! 😎

 

Watkins was far and away the #1 WR in the draft that year.  Let's face it: that move was a desperation heave to get EJ Manuel a WR1 in order to give him a chance to maximize his ability.

 

It didn't work.

 

But let's also recognize how good Watkins was when he was healthy: He put up almost 1,000 yards with EJ and Kyle Orton as a rookie, and followed that up with over 1,000 yards on 96 targets (in 13 games) with Tyrod Taylor quarterbacking an offense that threw fewer passes than any other offense in the NFL.  For as pass-happy as the NFL has become, only 20 WRs in the game had over 1,000 yards last year.  In 2017, that number was only 15.

 

I think it's safe to say that we'd all trade our 2020 first round pick for a WR that put up Sammy's 2015 numbers right now.

 

As for Sammy's "monster year", if it doesn't happen in 2019 it'll never happen.  It's his first season in the NFL where he's coming in healthy and playing in the same system as the previous year.

Edited by thebandit27
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3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Watkins was far and away the #1 WR in the draft that year.  Let's face it: that move was a desperation heave to get EJ Manuel a WR1 in order to give him a chance to maximize his ability.

 

It didn't work.

 

But let's also recognize how good Watkins was when he was healthy: He put up almost 1,000 yards with EJ and Kyle Orton as a rookie, and followed that up with over 1,000 yards on 96 targets (in 13 games) with Tyrod Taylor quarterbacking an offense that threw fewer passes than any other offense in the NFL.  For as pass-happy as the NFL has become, only 20 WRs in the game had over 1,000 yards last year.  In 2017, that number was only 15.

 

I think it's safe to say that we'd all trade our 2020 first round pick for a WR that put up Sammy's 2015 numbers right now.

 

As for Sammy's "monster year", if it doesn't happen in 2019 it'll never happen.  It's his first season in the NFL where he's coming in healthy and playing in the same system as the previous year.

Quick question: would you support a similar move to get Allen the top receiver in next year’s class if no one looks like a number 1 on the current roster?

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On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 6:00 AM, Alaska Darin said:

I would love to have a video of my reaction to the EJ Manuel pick.  I pretty much lost my mind just like the people in this video.

My biggest meltdown was Donte Whitner. Spiller and McKelvin were close but Whitner was traumatizing.

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12 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

My biggest meltdown was Donte Whitner. Spiller and McKelvin were close but Whitner was traumatizing.

I know you will never agree but it was more of the player than the position. If the Bills drafted Earl Thomas or Ed Reed, no one cares. And Whitner got drafted by us later in the draft, he is thought of much different.  He was a solid player for a lot of years in the nfl.

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Not looked at the replies here to check, but does anyone else think the guy at 2:11 looks like a fat, slightly f*cked up Josh Allen? 

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1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Quick question: would you support a similar move to get Allen the top receiver in next year’s class if no one looks like a number 1 on the current roster?

 

No...not at all.  For one, I don't think there's anywhere near the gap between the top WR in next year's class and the 4th than the one that was perceived between Watkins and say, OBJ at the time.  For another, the FA class of wideouts still looks pretty strong in 2020.  Lastly, there's less of a desperation-mode feeling to Allen (at this point) than there was to EJ at the time.

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1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I know you will never agree but it was more of the player than the position. If the Bills drafted Earl Thomas or Ed Reed, no one cares. And Whitner got drafted by us later in the draft, he is thought of much different.  He was a solid player for a lot of years in the nfl.

My thing is that the quality of a draft isn't only determined by who you draft, but also who you passed on. Levy admitted to numerous trade down offers and passed on HUGE talent (much of it at positions of dire need) in order to draft Whitner, an undersized safety (who btw held out and had off field issues).

 

Whitner was weak in coverage and while he was generally OK in run support, he would also get pancaked from time to time. He went on to collect 36 million dollars from the Bills and it all counted towards the cap.

 

Whitner was one of the dumbest picks I have ever seen but what were we to expect from the absolute worst Head Coach/GM teams that ever existed in the NFL?

 

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Posted (edited)

Allen is the only pick the Bills have made where I was legitimately pissed off. I was kind of annoyed with the Spiller pick, but told myself he was going to be a great playmaker, so sold myself on it within a day or two. Most picks, I can talk myself into since I don't pay much attention to college football. 

 

 

I was so pissed when they drafted Allen. We knew they wanted a QB and I had basically sold myself on all of the QB's except for Allen. I figured Sam would be off the board and thought maybe the pick would be either Baker or Rosen. When Rosen was there at 7 after they traded up, I got my hopes up really high. He was supposed to be the most NFL ready, he's been groomed to be QB for years and years. We just saw a "raw, but crazy gifted" QB turn into nothing in EJ. I wanted a QB that actually looked like a QB, not a project. 

 

Edited by elroy16

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On 6/5/2019 at 8:43 PM, whatdrought said:

I really don’t know anything about Jones, but it seems like Giants fans are just in a complain about anything mood... probably justifiable.

When the pick was announced, the cameras focused on some of the Giants fans. It looked like they saw a ghost! 😁

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On 6/5/2019 at 9:20 PM, DefenseWins said:

 

I don't think Bills fans were ever as hating on the JA pick last year compared to the fan reactions of Giants fans to Daniel Jones... Do I feel sorry for them? NO!

But maybe we should be happy that the Giants waited till this year to select a QB....

 

No one should ever feel sorry for any franchise that has won a SB in it’s history. 

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11 minutes ago, Captain Murica said:

No one should ever feel sorry for any franchise that has won a SB in it’s history. 

I know...especially when it is us. 

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1 hour ago, Rocket94 said:

I know...especially when it is us. 

My entire family is comprised of Giants(brothers, Mom, ab step dad) and Jets fans(cousins and uncles)besides myself. When they B word about their team specially the giants fans. I just roll my eyes and just sarcastically tell them how bad I feel for them and all the troubles they’ve endured as Giants fans.

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1 hour ago, Captain Murica said:

My entire family is comprised of Giants(brothers, Mom, ab step dad) and Jets fans(cousins and uncles)besides myself. When they B word about their team specially the giants fans. I just roll my eyes and just sarcastically tell them how bad I feel for them and all the troubles they’ve endured as Giants fans.

Geez! how do you manage to survive Sunday get togethers! 😆

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6 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Geez! how do you manage to survive Sunday get togethers! 😆

A lot of name calling and roasting one another. 😂

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6 minutes ago, Captain Murica said:

A lot of name calling and roasting one another. 😂

Cool. Good healthy fun!

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If Jones was the Giants' guy, there was no sense getting cute.  

 

That being said, the video was hilarious.  "Oh, NOOOO!  Daniel Jones?!?  That's the quarterback you ****ing take?!?"  Which Hanna Barbera character is he, anyway?

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11 hours ago, teef said:

ehhhhh.  i don't think this is the case at all.  sammy has damaged sammy's career.  he's been on two other teams with very high end qbs, and still hasn't produced.  to blame that on the bills is very misplaced.  

Perhaps his series of injuries has played a role in his lack of development/production?  Assigning guilt is easy; proving it can be problematic, especially in a spectator sport.

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17 hours ago, elroy16 said:

Allen is the only pick the Bills have made where I was legitimately pissed off. I was kind of annoyed with the Spiller pick, but told myself he was going to be a great playmaker, so sold myself on it within a day or two. Most picks, I can talk myself into since I don't pay much attention to college football. 

 

 

I was so pissed when they drafted Allen. We knew they wanted a QB and I had basically sold myself on all of the QB's except for Allen. I figured Sam would be off the board and thought maybe the pick would be either Baker or Rosen. When Rosen was there at 7 after they traded up, I got my hopes up really high. He was supposed to be the most NFL ready, he's been groomed to be QB for years and years. We just saw a "raw, but crazy gifted" QB turn into nothing in EJ. I wanted a QB that actually looked like a QB, not a project. 

 

Honest question, how do you feel about the pick now?

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10 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Perhaps his series of injuries has played a role in his lack of development/production?  Assigning guilt is easy; proving it can be problematic, especially in a spectator sport.

maybe, but does it matter?  i was replaying to the poster who was blaming the bills for sammy's lack of production.  it wasn't the bills fault.

 

it's funny.  when watkins was shipped out, the group of fans that understood/agreed with the move tended to do so due to lack of production, attitude and injury history.  when injuries were brought up as a reason, the people who hated losing sammy screamed it was a straw man argument.  now those same people are using injuries as an excuse for a lack of production, (not  you allen).  

 

sammy, for all the talent in the world, just has not lived up to the type of wr that he should be.  he's on his third team, the qb isn't an excuse, and he's still unproductive.  injuries are certainly part of it, but we all know that the best ability is availability.  this season is huge for him.  if he doesn't show more production, we know what his career will be, and it's unimpressive.  no more excuses for the guy.  he has all the talent in the world, and i think he can put up big numbers, but seeing is believing.  

 

 

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On 6/6/2019 at 6:52 AM, Hatszel said:

The EJ Manual year who were you going to take?   I personally would have traded back again and then take Manual who was the best Quarterback in that draft.  Not that it says much.   

 

Picks I hated most were Spiller when we had good backs   and  the trade up for a WR in a Strong WR draft for Watkins.    In my Mocks that year I had us trading back and getting Martin G, Benjamin WR and Martavius Bryant    

 

My real issue with that year was that we had set ourselves up to have to take a quarterback in a draft that had nothing better than mediocre quarterbacks. I think that when all was said, and done, the best quarterback of that draft was Matt Barkley! If we would have negotiated a more reasonable contract with Fitzpatrick, or just bit the bullet, and paid, and played him in 2013, we would have been in a much better position the following year.

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2 hours ago, teef said:

maybe, but does it matter?  i was replaying to the poster who was blaming the bills for sammy's lack of production.  it wasn't the bills fault.

 

it's funny.  when watkins was shipped out, the group of fans that understood/agreed with the move tended to do so due to lack of production, attitude and injury history.  when injuries were brought up as a reason, the people who hated losing sammy screamed it was a straw man argument.  now those same people are using injuries as an excuse for a lack of production, (not  you allen).  

 

sammy, for all the talent in the world, just has not lived up to the type of wr that he should be.  he's on his third team, the qb isn't an excuse, and he's still unproductive.  injuries are certainly part of it, but we all know that the best ability is availability.  this season is huge for him.  if he doesn't show more production, we know what his career will be, and it's unimpressive.  no more excuses for the guy.  he has all the talent in the world, and i think he can put up big numbers, but seeing is believing.  

 

 

And on a per game basis, Sammy has been less productive in his two years away from Buffalo than in any of his 3 in Buffalo.

 

Injuries are a major factor and most likely the main factor in his underwhelming career thus far.

 

There’s no denying his talent. And if you were to ask me 7 years ago who’d be the best NFL receiver from that Clemson team between Nuk and Sammy, I would have put my life’s savings on Watkins.

 

Life. It’s a *****.

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