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JESSEFEFFER

Aaron Schatz Football Outsiders-- Still Doubts Josh

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3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Who exactly is giving Darnold praise?  Other than maybe the media who suck up to large markets?  Honestly?

The analytics people, most fans comparing the 2 QB, most of the media. Trust me I follow all 3 groups.

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12 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

What do the analytic guys think of Russell Wilson or Mahomes?

I’m sure they think they are great QBs because of their numbers.  

 

Perhaps you should ask one of them to be sure though. 

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36 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m sure they think they are great QBs because of their numbers.  

 

Perhaps you should ask one of them to be sure though. 

 

I'm saying though that while they can give great traditional QB play, they also largely rely on intangibles and praise them for it.

 

I don't think they're completely blind. 

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If "Schatz is the first and certainly not the last", exactly how many analysts will go down on Allen?

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8 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Aaron was on WGR yesterday with an interesting position on Josh.  He still does not "see" him as an NFL starting QB.  Says he would like to see Bills fans rewarded but does not see Josh as likely to produce it.  If I were doing the interview I'd have asked him about the basis for this, is it the numbers or some actual film review?  IIRC, this was his predraft assessment based on his Wyoming stats and their  correlation to historical projection and he's not bending it based on year 1 in the NFL. 

 

Assuming he is still focused on the numbers, I would have asked him what effect that the following would have on his numbers:

 

1) being the leader in depth to target

2) being amongst the top in dropped passes and throwaways/spikes

3) being near the top in throws under pressure

 

I saw some Twitter chatter started by Bills reporters Sal Capaccio and Ryan Talbot.  Here's the link to the latters' story:

 

newyorkupstate " I-do-not-see-a-nfl-starting-qb-in-buffalo-bills-josh-allen-says-espns-aaron-schatz"

 

I appreciate facts in any discussion and numbers are facts.  But discussions need facts connected to meaning and context.  It looks like if the Bills have a decent season, he already has an alternate explanation as to why it happened.

 

I think Josh will be one of the alltime "scouts eyes and ears" vs. "raw analytics" cases in the NFL.  Someone gets to tell the other side "I told you so."

 

 

 

 

 

I would of loved to ask him what his analytics would give 6th round pick Tom Brady after one year?!  Josh will be just fine, most likely better as well as the rest of the Bills team.

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Some had very fixed ideas about what kind of QB Allen would be coming out if college.

 

It is very, very hard for some to admit they were wrong.

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1 minute ago, Success said:

Some had very fixed ideas about what kind of QB Allen would be coming out if college.

 

It is very, very hard for some to admit they were wrong.


Did I miss the part where he proved them wrong?

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11 minutes ago, Kemp said:


Did I miss the part where he proved them wrong?

He is in fact proving them wrong

you need to go back to what ppl were actually saying about him

is he a finished product?  No

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It should be noted that Allen already has outperformed the prognosis that Schatz and others predicted during his rookie year.  Football outsiders went on record saying that Allen was a parody of an NFL QB, and backtracking themselves from those comments now would only hurt their credibility even worse.  

 

As someone said old Schatzy is trying to hedge his bets.  

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38 minutes ago, Kemp said:


Did I miss the part where he proved them wrong?

People said he’s a back up best. While mixed results, with poor talent, he showed he can lead a team. Compared to Peterman and Anderson, with the same talent looked like Elway. 

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21 minutes ago, BillyWhiteShows said:

It should be noted that Allen already has outperformed the prognosis that Schatz and others predicted during his rookie year.  Football outsiders went on record saying that Allen was a parody of an NFL QB, and backtracking themselves from those comments now would only hurt their credibility even worse.  

 

As someone said old Schatzy is trying to hedge his bets.  

 

He was the 30th ranked QB in the NFL. Outperformed whose prognosis?

Mayfield, Darnold, and even Rosen were ranked higher.

This is who he outperformed:

image.thumb.png.197c78b7a68ba6f27b1da34fff30ed7d.png

Edited by Kemp

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I think most of the argument for people like Schatz is in college Allen didn’t elevate the team around him...schatz and people like schatz believe that if success doesn’t come in college that it will not come in the pros. This is obviously not always the case....in this case I hope Allen shoves it up all their asses.

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9 hours ago, ExWNYer said:

 

 

It's interesting to note that those in the national media who think the Bills are going to be bad think that Allen won't be any good (like Schatz) and those who think the Bills are on the rise think that Allen will be a good QB. Regardless of their stance, each side has seemed to draw a line in the sand based on their predetermined convictions and they are not going to budge. They will either crow when they are right or ignore it (and try to avoid eating crow) when they are wrong. Such is life in the 'hot take' world of social media. FWIW, Aaron Schatz is a frequent guest on 'Schopp & the Bulldog' and Mike Schopp worships at the altar of Schatz. 

Josh Allen has been one of the MOST Polarizing QB in football right from his high school days !!!! He will remain that until he retires from the NFL.   There will be many who will root for this kid for his talent and the enthusiasm he shows on the field.  There will be equal number of people who will provide their "analytic" view on his stats and his mechanics as the basis for their skepticism.  That is how the Jost Allen world exists!

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11 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

People said he’s a back up best. While mixed results, with poor talent, he showed he can lead a team. Compared to Peterman and Anderson, with the same talent looked like Elway. 

 

Looked like Elway in any way?

Really, that is absolutely comical.

We don't know what will happen next season, but anyone who saw Allen as anything better than a terrible passer last year is cloudy in thought.

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Allen has a lot to prove in 2019. He better not take a step back or many pundits and fans who did not like the pick will pounce.

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8 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Looked like Elway in any way?

Really, that is absolutely comical.

We don't know what will happen next season, but anyone who saw Allen as anything better than a terrible passer last year is cloudy in thought.

Good point. Because Allen looked a helluva lot better than Elway did in his rookie year. And he didn’t line up under the guard once all season, either. 

 

Took Elway 10 years to hit that “magical” 60% threshold, too. 

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I take not stock in what he says.  Guy is trying to have it both ways.  He says Allen is not a qb and wont succeed then says if he succeeds it will be thanks to good coaching/situation.   WTF,?  I have no problem with someone saying Allen wont make it but dont then go out and try and play both sides of the fence. 

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45 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

He was the 30th ranked QB in the NFL. Outperformed whose prognosis?

Mayfield, Darnold, and even Rosen were ranked higher.

This is who he outperformed:

image.thumb.png.197c78b7a68ba6f27b1da34fff30ed7d.png

 

Peterman ahead of Anderson and Barkley?  Idk about that ranking...

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46 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Looked like Elway in any way?

Really, that is absolutely comical.

We don't know what will happen next season, but anyone who saw Allen as anything better than a terrible passer last year is cloudy in thought.

I would love to listen to you but a bills we just dropped another pass

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9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Not sure why people get up in arms over all this stuff. 

 

These guys do a lot of research on these players and then give a prediction based on their research. It's a nice job to have because it doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, they'll still have a job.... it's just his opinion on a player that happened to be picked by that Bills. It has no barring on if Allen will be successful or not so I never understood why people got pissed over this stuff.

 

 

 

No, they really don't research much of anything.

 

They grab a pile of easily obtained stats and run them through a spreadsheet.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Looked like Elway in any way?

Really, that is absolutely comical.

We don't know what will happen next season, but anyone who saw Allen as anything better than a terrible passer last year is cloudy in thought.

Did you actually read my post or just see the elway. Compared to Peterman and Anderson, yes he looked like Elway out there. My god, way to troll and twist the words.

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