mannc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said: Mack averaged 18 tkl for loss and 7 sacks a season in his career. Oliver avg 17 tkls for loss and 4.5 sacks. While Mack was more productive, so was Oliver. He put up those numbers playing NT for a ton of snaps as well. Oliver is a legit prospect. Mack got progressively better, unlike Oliver. Mack averaged 10 sacks and 20 TFL his last two years at UB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, mannc said: First you tell me who’s available there. I could see Wilkins, Josh Allen, or an OT. Maybe Metcalf, too. Wilkins, Oliver, Gary, Jonah, and Jawaan Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, BuffAlone said: Wilkins, Oliver, Gary, Jonah, and Jawaan Taylor. In that case, I take Wilkins or one of the OTs. I don’t like Gary there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, mannc said: First you tell me who’s available there. I could see Wilkins, Josh Allen, or an OT. Maybe Metcalf, too. You care about production but you'd take Metcalf? Josh Allen is going in the top 5. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, mannc said: In that case, I take Wilkins or one of the OTs. I don’t like Gary there. Over Oliver? Yikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: You care about production but you'd take Metcalf? Josh Allen is going in the top 5. I don’t really like Metcalf, but that was one of the choices he gave me, and I think we should go offense there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, mannc said: I don’t really like Metcalf, but that was one of the choices he gave me, and I think we should go offense there. Huh? No it wasn't... Plus, you don't "go offense" - you go BPA once you have your QB. Edited March 24, 2019 by Coach Tuesday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, mannc said: I don’t really like Metcalf, but that was one of the choices he gave me, and I think we should go offense there. I gave you no such choice I'd be ok with Wilkins or Taylor at 9. But that's just it..."ok with". If I'm going by potential to be dynamic, its Oliver all day. I want no part of Gary or Jonah at 9. Or Metcalf for that matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said: Huh? No it wasn't... My bad. You’re right. Yeah, I don’t love Metcalf but the need for a dynamic WR is such that he has to be considered. WRT Oliver, there are just too many other good defensive linemen available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, mannc said: My bad. You’re right. Yeah, I don’t love Metcalf but the need for a dynamic WR is such that he has to be considered. WRT Oliver, there are just too many other good defensive linemen available. Not according to the list I gave you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) The BPA most likely will be a DE and DT, and it will absolutely be a need by 2020. My guess is that Oliver due to his "lack of production" despite his good penetrating numbers will fit the bill. I do believe him to be an impact player with elite talent level. His size doesnt bother me that much because he would be the 3 technique and he has elite level quickness/first step and plays with great leverage. I suspect he will have better pass rushing and sack numbers than he did in college and he will undoubtedly have lots of TFL due to his style of play. If he is there at 9, I think he will be the pick. Edited March 24, 2019 by Magox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Just now, Magox said: The BPA most likely will be a DE and DT, and it will absolutely be a need by 2020. My guess is that Oliver due to his "lack of production" despite his good penetrating numbers will fit the bill. I do believe him to be an impact player with elite talent level. His size doesnt bother me that much because he would be the 3 technique and he has elite level quickness/first step and plays with great leverage. I suspect he will have better pass rushing and sack numbers than he did in college and he will undoubtedly have lots of TFL due to his size of play. If he is there at 9, I think he will be the pick. Agreed. Ceiling is very high at a premium position (pass rusher) and that's key when you're picking in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: Not according to the list I gave you... Those would not be the only guys available at 9. I would also take QWilliams, Wilkins, Allen, Ferrell, Lawrence, Burns and several others before I took Oliver. Only one or two of those will be off the board at 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, mannc said: Those would not be the only guys available at 9. I would also take QWilliams, Wilkins, Allen, Ferrell, Lawrence, Burns and several others before I took Oliver. Only one or two of those will be off the board at 9. You would really take Dexter Lawrence at 9 over Ed Oliver?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Magox said: The BPA most likely will be a DE and DT, and it will absolutely be a need by 2020. My guess is that Oliver due to his "lack of production" despite his good penetrating numbers will fit the bill. I do believe him to be an impact player with elite talent level. His size doesnt bother me that much because he would be the 3 technique and he has elite level quickness/first step and plays with great leverage. I suspect he will have better pass rushing and sack numbers than he did in college and he will undoubtedly have lots of TFL due to his style of play. If he is there at 9, I think he will be the pick. I agree. We needed a QB and MLB last year. They were there for us at BPA due to Beane maneuvering around to line up need/BPA. I can see him doing that again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said: You would really take Dexter Lawrence at 9 over Ed Oliver?? Yup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, mannc said: Those would not be the only guys available at 9. I would also take QWilliams, Wilkins, Allen, Ferrell, Lawrence, Burns and several others before I took Oliver. Only one or two of those will be off the board at 9. No chance Q Will or Allen are there. If so, I take Q Will. But to think all those other guys are better than Oliver is crazy talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: No chance Q Will or Allen are there. If so, I take Q Will. But to think all those other guys are better than Oliver is crazy talk. That’s fine. I just don’t think Oliver is good. You do. We’ll see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I get much more of a Nick Fairley career vibe from him than an Aaron Donald career vibe. Whatever, I will trust the process if he is taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 hour ago, mannc said: My bad. You’re right. Yeah, I don’t love Metcalf but the need for a dynamic WR is such that he has to be considered. As I said in another thread, only half of the playoff teams last year had a 1,000 yard WR (the Rams had 2). You don't need that dynamic WR to succeed and their plan was to add another speedster in Brown to pair with Foster to clear-out the underneath for Beasley and the running game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc said: As I said in another thread, only half of the playoff teams last year had a 1,000 yard WR (the Rams had 2). You don't need that dynamic WR to succeed and their plan was to add another speedster in Brown to pair with Foster to clear-out the underneath for Beasley and the running game. The Bills still need more offensive weapons. I’m happy with the guys they’ve added in FA, but we need to add at least one WR and a TE (oh, and RB) in the draft, and I’m not talking day 3. I’d be happy with Campbell, Harry, Metcalf, among others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 hours ago, mannc said: That’s fine. I just don’t think Oliver is good. You do. We’ll see. I’m not going to go as far as you and say he isn’t good, but I don’t think he’s a Beane guy. Not in the least. Beane prefers prototypes, which Oliver is not. He also prefers good character, which Oliver showed the exact opposite of on national tv with his hissy fit about the jacket. I’m not worried about Oliver, really, because I think the Bills are just being diligent by bringing him in for a private workout. I would look look more closely at Christian Wilkins, who fits McD and Beane to a t. He’s prototypical, productive, a winner, and has excellent character. Would be a perfect locker room fit and be an immediate fit in this culture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, mannc said: The Bills still need more offensive weapons. I’m happy with the guys they’ve added in FA, but we need to add at least one WR and a TE (oh, and RB) in the draft, and I’m not talking day 3. I’d be happy with Campbell, Harry, Metcalf, among others. They don't need another WR. TE and RB, sure, but not on day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Doc said: They don't need another WR. TE and RB, sure, but not on day 1. Agree, re no TE or RB on day one, unless they trade back. Disagree re need for another WR. I think they take one on day 1 or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, whorlnut said: I’m not going to go as far as you and say he isn’t good, but I don’t think he’s a Beane guy. Not in the least. Beane prefers prototypes, which Oliver is not. He also prefers good character, which Oliver showed the exact opposite of on national tv with his hissy fit about the jacket. I’m not worried about Oliver, really, because I think the Bills are just being diligent by bringing him in for a private workout. I would look look more closely at Christian Wilkins, who fits McD and Beane to a t. He’s prototypical, productive, a winner, and has excellent character. Would be a perfect locker room fit and be an immediate fit in this culture. Here we go lol.... One hissy fit does not equal the exact opposite of good character. Beane has said many many times what his definition of good "football character" means when he says that. It means...a good teammate.check. Doing what the coach/ team asks of you, selflessly. Check. It means being passionate about the game. Check. He's also said that we don't only look for choir boys. It's all of those things, and more, that paint the Broader picture of a man's football character. That said, I'm not looking for a "safe, low risk, low reward" player at 9. Love Wilkins, but I don't see a game changer in him. I don't see a player who has opportunity to take the league by storm, appear in pro bowls( not that that's really relevant anymore) or make teams specifically game plan for him week in, or week out. At 9, I'm going projection as much as production. Either way, I'm sure McBeane will get it right 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Dinner restaurant suggestion for OBD : 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 3 hours ago, mannc said: Mack got progressively better, unlike Oliver. Mack averaged 10 sacks and 20 TFL his last two years at UB. Was he playing nose tackle? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: Here we go lol.... One hissy fit does not equal the exact opposite of good character. Beane has said many many times what his definition of good "football character" means when he says that. It means...a good teammate.check. Doing what the coach/ team asks of you, selflessly. Check. It means being passionate about the game. Check. He's also said that we don't only look for choir boys. It's all of those things, and more, that paint the Broader picture of a man's football character. That said, I'm not looking for a "safe, low risk, low reward" player at 9. Love Wilkins, but I don't see a game changer in him. I don't see a player who has opportunity to take the league by storm, appear in pro bowls( not that that's really relevant anymore) or make teams specifically game plan for him week in, or week out. At 9, I'm going projection as much as production. Either way, I'm sure McBeane will get it right Agreed - Oliver played 0T or NT for Houston and was the only difference maker on that D Line - and had strong numbers. Playing out of position and eating double and triple teams was his job - he did it and never complained. At the point of the coat incident, his coach Major Applewhite was hanging by a thread and over-reacted IMHO. Subsequently fired. Edited March 24, 2019 by freddyjj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Rico said: I get much more of a Nick Fairley career vibe from him than an Aaron Donald career vibe. Whatever, I will trust the process if he is taken. Geno Atkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 HE WAS WEARING A COAT ON THE SIDELINES, CLEARLY NOT A PROCESS GUY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said: HE WAS WEARING A COAT ON THE SIDELINES, CLEARLY NOT A PROCESS GUY!!! It was his reaction to a team rule that is the issue here. He thought he was above the rules. You’re right...clearly not a process guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, whorlnut said: It was his reaction to a team rule that is the issue here. He thought he was above the rules. You’re right...clearly not a process guy. If you think the coach was flipping out on him over a jacket, you are a moron. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Geno Atkins I'm down with getting a Geno Atkins-level career out of the #9 pick, very good value. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: HE WAS WEARING A COAT ON THE SIDELINES, CLEARLY NOT A PROCESS GUY!!! Coat-Gate I hope when we draft him, they hand him a Bills parka with his name on it instead of a jersey Edited March 24, 2019 by YoloinOhio 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 minute ago, whorlnut said: It was his reaction to a team rule that is the issue here. He thought he was above the rules. You’re right...clearly not a process guy. He was unreasonably treated by a coach who was on his last leg and belittled in front of his teammates. He voiced his disagreement and it escalated. It happened. That should not take away from the 2+ years he showed great character while selflessly playing out of position for the perceived betterment of his team.All whilst keeping his head down, staying productive, and being a good teammate. "Football Character" is what Beane looks for. Not what you are making it out to be. Which is a silly argument given that our GM has repeatedly stated this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyjj Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Coat-Gate I hope when we draft him, they hand him a Bills parka with his name on it instead of a jersey This should fit him, and like his UH one, slightly used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 48 minutes ago, mannc said: Agree, re no TE or RB on day one, unless they trade back. Disagree re need for another WR. I think they take one on day 1 or 2. There is no room for a 1st round pick WR on the roster. They just gave Brown and Beasley decent-sized deals, so they're 2 of your top 3 WR's. Foster is coming off an impressive rookie season and you don't shove him to the side for a wholly unproven rookie. Furthermore, there isn't a consensus #1 WR that I can see in this draft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, Doc said: There is no room for a 1st round pick WR on the roster. They just gave Brown and Beasley decent-sized deals, so they're 2 of your top 3 WR's. Foster is coming off an impressive rookie season and you don't shove him to the side for a wholly unproven rookie. Furthermore, there isn't a consensus #1 WR that I can see in this draft. Yep - my money is on DL or Edge early. I do think there are some intriguing depth WR prospects later this draft, they don't have to reach for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 hours ago, WideNine said: Yep - my money is on DL or Edge early. I do think there are some intriguing depth WR prospects later this draft, they don't have to reach for anyone. I also see DL and am fine with whoever they take. I'd favor Oliver because I think he can be an Aaron Donald type of disruptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeProcess Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc said: I also see DL and am fine with whoever they take. I'd favor Oliver because I think he can be an Aaron Donald type of disruptor. I agree he’s a freak at that position. Avg .42 sacks a game and an astonishing 1.62 tackles a loss per game. Meanwhile, they played him grossly out of position. This guy being able to just play the 3 tech in an aggressive scheme will be amazing 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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