Do you really need to have a top tier #1 WR to be successful?

[Orlando Tim]

5 hours ago, loyal2dagame said:

Funny thing. The four teams with the consensus top 4 receivers in the NFL (Giants, Steelers, Bengals, Falcons) didn't make the playoffs. All had established QBs. 

I think it could help having a top tier WR,  but isn't make or break.

this is so true most years. one great receiver can be stopped but 4 good receivers are hard to cover-usually the 4th guys is being covered by someone who is overmatched.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Nope,

 

Name top 10 WRs. Ok good, now Tell me which ones have rings? 

 

 

 

I'm sure their teams would be glad to part with them 

What is this thread
?

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

You might as well say "are elite receivers better than good receivers?"

 

You're clearly trying to justify the idea that the Bills don't have an elite WR. OF COURSE having better players makes it easier to win, BY DEFINITION.

 

Then you add on a completely random test of FIRST team all pro needing to be on the superbowl WINNER in order to disprove your hypothesis.

 

So when's the last first team all pro DT to be on a superbowl winner? Oh it's been a while guess that position isn't as important as you think and we shouldn't try to get better there.

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Chemical

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, Watkins101 said:

Brandon Cooks is about as "elite" as Tate. Neither of them are truly elite though.

Exactly. I’d rather 2 Robert woods than 1 OBJ

[Prickly Pete]

I don't think a team HAS to have a superstar wr, but this Bills team needs one better than  what they currently have. And that's all that matters.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, Chemical said:

You might as well say "are elite receivers better than good receivers?"

 

You're clearly trying to justify the idea that the Bills don't have an elite WR. OF COURSE having better players makes it easier to win, BY DEFINITION.

 

Then you add on a completely random test of FIRST team all pro needing to be on the superbowl WINNER in order to disprove your hypothesis.

 

So when's the last first team all pro DT to be on a superbowl winner? Oh it's been a while guess that position isn't as important as you think and we shouldn't try to get better there.

 

 

Elite DT with rings? No problem..   plenty to chose from

Edited March 13, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[rayray808]

simply put, lower level WR are okay when you have high QB accuracy

 

all fan hood aside we know that Josh Allen lacks in that department currently, so having a pool of talented receivers will surely help

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, Chemical said:

You might as well say "are elite receivers better than good receivers?"

 

You're clearly trying to justify the idea that the Bills don't have an elite WR. OF COURSE having better players makes it easier to win, BY DEFINITION.

 

Then you add on a completely random test of FIRST team all pro needing to be on the superbowl WINNER in order to disprove your hypothesis.

 

So when's the last first team all pro DT to be on a superbowl winner? Oh it's been a while guess that position isn't as important as you think and we shouldn't try to get better there.

 

 

Wrong. I’m saying good gms prioritize positions at which are most critical to buy or draft elite talent. 

 

Elite WR shouldn’t be a priority.  If it happens fine, but it shouldn’t be a top line objective with elite level draft capital or FA $. 

 

Sammy Watkins taught some nothing, so it seems. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

20 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Elite DT with rings? No problem..   plenty to chose from

 

No it needs to be first team all pro to win the super bowl that season.  Just being as rediculous as the op. 

[billsfan89]

I do think you need an attention commander in the receiving game. You need at least one dynamic receiving option to sort of set the table for any offense. Do you need a top 10-15 receiver or a top 3-5 tight end? No but I do think you need a quality pass catcher to keep defenses honest and give your running game and supplemental receivers a chance to have space to operate. Look at the difference Amari Cooper made to Dallas's offense just as an example. I would qualify Cooper as a top 10-15 receiver but just having someone good on the outside shifts how teams play against you. I love the speed that the team brought in with Brown. I think Beasley is a quality slot player. Foster and Zay could have potential, but I think that unless Zay or Foster emerge as higher quality players than there will be a longer term need to provide a true top receiving option for the offense.

[Buffalo Junction]

You don't need a bonified #1 prototype WR. However, the alternate solution is to scheme around that.... This means having a set of players that creates a mismatch against every defense. The Rams do this by having three #2 WRs and a dominant RB. I'd be more than happy to follow the Rams' method where you overwhelm a defense with a multitude of #2 receiving options; particularly with a younger QB that is still growing into his leadership roll. 

[YoloinOhio]

This was making the rounds today - classic Francesca rant about this topic  - OBJ and other big time WRs

 

[Reed83HOF]

11 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

This was making the rounds today - classic Francesca rant about this topic  - OBJ and other big time WRs

 

 

AND GET OFF MY LAWN!

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Reed83HOF said:

 

AND GET OFF MY LAWN!

At least he didn’t fall asleep during this one 

[Happy]

21 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

This was making the rounds today - classic Francesca rant about this topic  - OBJ and other big time WRs

 

That was a great Mike Francesca rant.  Even better than the Rex rant from 4 or 5 years ago.  Francesca's right about OBJ and the primadonna WRs.  As much as I hate Edelman, I'd take him before the big three.

[formerlyofCtown]

Look at how deep the teams that have them went in the playoffs.

The truth id that most didnt even make the playoffs.

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Nice post.  I don't think a team needs a WR1, but I do think that having such a player is extremely beneficial for the development of a young QB.

 

I know I've said it already, but, IMO, the best thing about Buffalo's WR group is that they have multiple types of each style of WR with which Allen had success last year.

 

They have Foster and John Brown to play the boundary speed role.

They have Beasley and Zay to play the shiftier slot role.

They have McKenzie and Victor Bolden to play the gadget role.

 

What they're missing is the big-bodied, catch radius red-zone guy IMO.  Maybe they feel like they can count on Kroft/Croom to be that guy, but I sure would like to see a N'Keal Harry type of 50/50 ball specialist with some downfield speed added in the draft to fill that role.

 

Just my 1 cent.

 

 

The bolded is the point that seems lost on Magox.

 

This team has a second year QB.........a guy with a lot of talent but is green as grass as a QB........he isn't going to be dissecting defenses like a Brady or Brees.........he needs receivers that can dominate if needed while he learns the ropes.

 

They are kinda' piecing together at least something of a poor-man's version of Rams turnaround plan by aggressively building up the OL and receiver positions with guys that fit roles............but it remains to be seen if these guys are enough to elevate Allen's level when the going gets tough.     Like, for instance helping avoid being shutout by the Patriots until the closing minute of a football game.   I don't doubt they can put up numbers but I'm not sure these guys they've acquired are going to move the needle to championship contender level for a young QB against top competition.

 

That's where that superstar WR does. 

 

I *like* the guys they got.........but for such a raw prospect like Allen more quality........like a Julio Jones........could make an exponential difference.

 

[NoSaint]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

While I agree with you about not needing a top WR, Hopkins is a top 4 WR and made the playoffs.  

Michael Thomas probably had a case to be made too

[Mat68]

You need a go to guy.  Throw to the open man is easy, until you are facing man cover 0 and need 7 to 10 yards.  Who do you know wins the route?  Could be a Te, slot, outside Wr, but you need one.  

[Bing Bong]

I think if you can find a middle ground between John Brown or Marvin Harrison as your best receiver hahaha. 

 

To win a Superbowl you need a great team, a ton of luck, unlikely heros, and many of your better players, including receiver, playing above their level.

 

So maybe an Marvin Harrison was the last All-Pro receiver. But Santonio Holmes' catch to win it for the Steelers over the Cards was All-Pro caliber. Plaxico Burress's playoff run single handedly beat the Packers for the Giants, and was absolutely necessary to beat the Patriots the next week. 

 

We can have more of a WR by committee sure so long as John Brown has circus catches in him when we need it. Our #1 needs to be GOOD. And all the others (everybody on the team obviously) needs to show they can elevate their play when their number is called.

 

DeAndre Hopkins is just more likely to do all these things. He'd be better in clutch situations and make things easier. He'd also take a ton of cap and leave us less talented elsewhere, necessitating his play to elevate that much more. 

 

There's no easy answer but I think you're making life much easier on yourself if you have a true #1 AND depth. You don't need the absolute top tier WR, but I don't think we want Brown.. just someone to bail us out when we need it. Or we just need a damned great team elsewhere like the 2000 Ravens or something. It's much tougher that way.. like having an average QB.

 

It's more about where your money is IMO. If you have a cheap weak Quarterback strong WRs help. Great defense, great quarterback, not so much. The greatest show on turf had 2 all pro WRs and didn't need squat for defense.

Edited March 14, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think Bandits got it right.

 

Id love Julio but that seems pretty unrealistic right about now.... as does Golden Tate or Tyrell. 

 

A big target via the draft, who can catch those 50/50 balls to compliment the recievers they've got would be ideal.

 

 

 

Bandit has it right.........those guys fit those roles.

 

And I think on the whole they will certainly help Allen improve.

 

But I think in big games this might not be enough firepower to elevate the young QB.

 

Now maybe...HOPEFULLY....... Robert Foster turns into a near Tyreek Hill level #1 and fills that superstar role and this all becomes moot.............but if not I think there will likely be some big games where the camera is flipping around to glassy eyed stares of realization from Allen, McD and Pegs in big games where good teams are able to matchup and shut down these guys the Bills just signed. 

 

It's a matchup league.   And with a young QB more of the matchup emphasis goes to the receiver, IMO.

 

So while a good player like Cole Beasley might be great matchup in the slot with a wise veteran passer throwing him open all day........he might look a lot different with Allen against a top defense.   Those throws might not even happen.    Or they may be contested etc..