reddogblitz Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: No, but if you told the employee to hide evidence of a crime, it would be Even if they didn't do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 8 hours ago, reddogblitz said: Even if they didn't do it? Good question. I'll admit I've totally focused on the first column of Muellers report, the Russian attack section, and I still believe it's by far the most important. But the obstruction is there and demonstratable. True, the order here was not followed out. The intent was clear, though. To obstruct If that had been the only thing this wouldn't be such a big deal but it's part of a larger patter. Mueller lays out ten instances of obstruction most of which are more serious than the order to fire Mueller. He did fire Comey. So that was carried out. Why? This "Russia thing" Pardons to Manafort and Flynn were held out...that's why Manafort is on his way to NY, for a state trial. President Trump argues he is above the law. A thousand prosecutors say he's wrong The special counsel’s report and Wednesday’s remarks indicate that Mueller reached the same conclusion as the prosecutors who signed the statement: Trump obstructed justice. However, Mueller explained in both his report and his remarks that he could not criminally indict the ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Good question. I'll admit I've totally focused on the first column of Muellers report, the Russian attack section, and I still believe it's by far the most important. But the obstruction is there and demonstratable. True, the order here was not followed out. The intent was clear, though. To obstruct If that had been the only thing this wouldn't be such a big deal but it's part of a larger patter. Mueller lays out ten instances of obstruction most of which are more serious than the order to fire Mueller. He did fire Comey. So that was carried out. Why? This "Russia thing" Pardons to Manafort and Flynn were held out...that's why Manafort is on his way to NY, for a state trial. President Trump argues he is above the law. A thousand prosecutors say he's wrong The special counsel’s report and Wednesday’s remarks indicate that Mueller reached the same conclusion as the prosecutors who signed the statement: Trump obstructed justice. However, Mueller explained in both his report and his remarks that he could not criminally indict the ... Good post. To summarize: 1. The political class should be allowed to make up BS about people they don't want to have certain roles. This is better for us all. 2. If the subject of the BS gets pissed that can be used as a backup plan once the BS is discovered to be BS. This holds true even if the subject simply rants about it and takes no action. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Will Nadler or Waters open up and investigation about President Trump's plagiarizing FDR's speech when Trump addressed an audience in the UK today? IMPEACH the plagiarizer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said: Good post. To summarize: 1. The political class should be allowed to make up BS about people they don't want to have certain roles. This is better for us all. 2. If the subject of the BS gets pissed that can be used as a backup plan once the BS is discovered to be BS. This holds true even if the subject simply rants about it and takes no action. You do agree that the Russian attack on our election was serious, right? Or not? I get that partisan consideration want some people to say so what? At least Hillary lost and so what if murderous Putin got his man elected. If you do think the situation was serious, then interfering in an investigation looking into the attack was criminal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Tibs...and others: Russia did not attack our election! I can’t stand how that has become the talking point. They may have been attempting to mess around with CAMPAIGN propaganda but they didn’t do one darn thing on the first Tuesday in November. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Just now, SoCal Deek said: Tibs...and others: Russia did not attack our election! I can’t stand how that has become the talking point. They may have been attempting to mess around with CAMPAIGN propaganda but they didn’t do one darn thing on the first Tuesday in November. You and me both. When I hear people testifying that "Russia interfered in our election" like $10K in Facebook ads swayed any votes, I simply shake my head. They all say it, even Barr. "Interference" has a pretty low bar if that is the definition. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Just now, Buffalo_Gal said: You and me both. When I hear people testifying that "Russia interfered in our election" like $10K in Facebook ads swayed any votes, I simply shake my head. They all say it, even Barr. "Interference" has a pretty low bar if that is the definition. Exactly. Heck your local public employee unions interfere a thousand times more in your school board races, and those are your tax dollars being used to buy raises in their own paychecks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Tibs...and others: Russia did not attack our election! I can’t stand how that has become the talking point. They may have been attempting to mess around with CAMPAIGN propaganda but they didn’t do one darn thing on the first Tuesday in November. Read first section of Mueller report. Listen to what Mueller said. I won't post anymore facts because what's the point? 13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: You and me both. When I hear people testifying that "Russia interfered in our election" like $10K in Facebook ads swayed any votes, I simply shake my head. They all say it, even Barr. "Interference" has a pretty low bar if that is the definition. Pure ignorance here. Misinformation 11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Exactly. Heck your local public employee unions interfere a thousand times more in your school board races, and those are your tax dollars being used to buy raises in their own paychecks! Nope. You should educate yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Read first section of Mueller report. Listen to what Mueller said. I won't post anymore facts because what's the point? Pure ignorance here. Misinformation Tibs, where in the Mueller Report does it say that Russia attacked our ELECTION? It doesn’t. Heck your own self proclaimed savior Obama told us all that it was impossible on national TV! But then again he was asleep on his watch...like usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Tibs, where in the Mueller Report does it say that Russia attacked our ELECTION? It doesn’t. Heck your own self proclaimed savior Obama told us all that it was impossible on national TV! But then again he was asleep on his watch...like usual. The first section, volume 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tiberius said: You do agree that the Russian attack on our election was serious, right? Or not? I get that partisan consideration want some people to say so what? At least Hillary lost and so what if murderous Putin got his man elected. If you do think the situation was serious, then interfering in an investigation looking into the attack was criminal. It depends on how you define serious. Was it unique to Russia? No. Was it unique to 2016? No. Do similar efforts go on every day in every walk of life from individual, commercial, criminal and governmental sources? Yes. Did it alter a single vote? Unknown with certainty but it hasn't been demonstrated. Were their efforts more sophisticated than the movie that got blamed for Benghazi? Not by much. Did Facebook profit from it? Yes. Both directly and from the huffing and puffing which ensued. Is it desirable that this sort of thing happened? No. So I guess I consider it serious based on the last bullet point an to an extent the penultimate one as well. What I find more serious is that although it was rife with ineptitude and clearly inconsequential, that it has turned into a historical moment to some people. Worse yet, it has turned into that because we were told that it should and nothing more. That was in turn used to try to unseat an elected President. I would not be shocked if similar efforts, still unpublicized, had been made by Finland and Peru. Trump's homeland sec leader was named Kirsten which sounds Finnish to me. Investigate! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: It depends on how you define serious. Was it unique to Russia? No. Was it unique to 2016? No. Do similar efforts go on every day in every walk of life from individual, commercial, criminal and governmental sources? Yes. Did it alter a single vote? Unknown with certainty but it hasn't been demonstrated. Were their efforts more sophisticated than the movie that got blamed for Benghazi? Not by much. Did Facebook profit from it? Yes. Both directly and from the huffing and puffing which ensued. Is it desirable that this sort of thing happened? No. So I guess I consider it serious based on the last bullet point an to an extent the penultimate one as well. What I find more serious is that although it was rife with ineptitude and clearly inconsequential, that it has turned into a historical moment to some people. Worse yet, it has turned into that because we were told that it should and nothing more. That was in turn used to try to unseat an elected President. I would not be shocked if similar efforts, still unpublicized, had been made by Finland and Peru. Trump's homeland sec leader was named Kirsten which sounds Finnish to me. Investigate! Have we ever had an election marked by hacked information that was weaponized and used against a candidate by a foreign power before? Mr Secret Trump went against a candidate who had all her information--private information--hacked and weaponized against her. That was an attack on our system like no other. And almost certainly changed votes or suppressed some. The Russuans also at the very least tried hacking voting systems, voting machine companies and election officials. That deserved investigation free of obstruction, do you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Have we ever had an election marked by hacked information that was weaponized and used against a candidate by a foreign power before? Mr Secret Trump went against a candidate who had all her information--private information--hacked and weaponized against her. That was an attack on our system like no other. And almost certainly changed votes or suppressed some. The Russuans also at the very least tried hacking voting systems, voting machine companies and election officials. That deserved investigation free of obstruction, do you agree? Come on. There was information gathering and strategic dispersal before the computer age. There was also blatant story fabrication. Let's not pretend the concept is brand new. If a big left wing apparatus was found would you be so gun ho to seek retribution? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 So are you saying it was the release of Hilary’s emails that is a big reason why we have a President Trump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 23 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: ? House Judiciary Committee calls as its first witness . . . John Dean......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: Come on. There was information gathering and strategic dispersal before the computer age. There was also blatant story fabrication. Let's not pretend the concept is brand new. If a big left wing apparatus was found would you be so gun ho to seek retribution? I'd sure as hell would want to know the truth of what happened. On top of the foreign attack on our elections, Trump then buddies up to the monster that committed the attack, holding secret meetings with him. Come on Rob, if a Dem was doing that you'd be going nuts screaming about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, Tiberius said: I'd sure as hell would want to know the truth of what happened. On top of the foreign attack on our elections, Trump then buddies up to the monster that committed the attack, holding secret meetings with him. Come on Rob, if a Dem was doing that you'd be going nuts screaming about it I honestly doubt you would face the truth. You as many other leftist would shrug your shoulders and say that it needed to be done in the name of progress if the left was caught red handed. There is no open evidence to suggest a foreign attack. Just hypothesis and hearsay. Back during the 1970's the Republicans were willing to clean house after Watergate. In the current era much fog surrounds Hillary Clinton with the Democrats unwilling to fan the fog aside to show transparency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: I honestly doubt you would face the truth. You as many other leftist would shrug your shoulders and say that it needed to be done in the name of progress if the left was caught red handed. There is no open evidence to suggest a foreign attack. Just hypothesis and hearsay. Back during the 1970's the Republicans were willing to clean house after Watergate. In the current era much fog surrounds Hillary Clinton with the Democrats unwilling to fan the fog aside to show transparency. Mueller's report documents what they found. A far reaching and sustained attack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Mueller's report documents what they found. A far reaching and sustained attack... That’s impossible! Obama told Romney that the Russians were so 1970s. WOKE UP DUDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: That’s impossible! Obama told Romney that the Russians were so 1970s. WOKE UP DUDE And now they seem to access to our most sensitive classified information! Oh Obama! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: That’s impossible! Obama told Romney that the Russians were so 1970s. WOKE UP DUDE That aside there is nothing the public gets to see in the open to substantiate any claims.............unlike Hillary's server that she wiped..........with a cloth. Painful times ahead for our friend Tibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: And now they seem to access to our most sensitive classified information! Oh Obama! Oh no!! Foreign countries are accessing our information. This is news to you? While you’re crying in your Cheerios about Russia China is inside your iPhone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tiberius said: And now they seem to access to our most sensitive classified information! Oh Obama! Not really. Just the bathroom servers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: That aside there is nothing the public gets to see in the open to substantiate any claims.............unlike Hillary's server that she wiped..........with a cloth. Painful times ahead for our friend Tibs. Oh, I'll be fine. I just think it's funny you guys can't handle the truth. How long can a the Republican political party last with all the lies they are built upon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Russia?? that's our 1980s foreign policy calling, duh-huh duh-huh, bwa-hahhh-hahhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 Just now, 4merper4mer said: Not really. Just the bathroom servers. Trump has handed out security clearances to clowns the professionals said should not have them. My god, if Obama had done that you guys would be pulling on your short hairs so hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Oh, I'll be fine. I just think it's funny you guys can't handle the truth. How long can a the Republican political party last with all the lies they are built upon? The Democrats may not make it through the year. I see them splintering then forming coalitions that consist of various groups such as environmentalists. The party of FDR and JFK is dying and that is your REAL concern. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: The Democrats may not make it through the year. I see them splintering then forming coalitions that consist of various groups such as environmentalists. The party of FDR and JFK is dying and that is your REAL concern. It's over!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: The Democrats may not make it through the year. I see them splintering then forming coalitions that consist of various groups such as environmentalists. The party of FDR and JFK is dying and that is your REAL concern. the US needs a third party, a radical left-wing breakoff from the Dems has been fallow for 50 years now time to rise and shine name it and claim int Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: It's over!!!! For the Democrats! It's in the quote you made from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 minute ago, RochesterRob said: For the Democrats! It's in the quote you made from me. I know! Why are they acting like they picked up 40 seats in the House last election?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Tiberius said: Oh, I'll be fine. I just think it's funny you guys can't handle the truth. How long can a the Republican political party last with all the lies they are built upon? Oh, I don't know. The democrats fought against the proposed 19th Amendment for 42 years. They also fought against the abolishment of slavery and the Civil Rights Act. Guess who was for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: How long can a the Republican political party last with all the lies they are built upon? You do realize that when people disagree with you it doesn’t mean they’re lying right? Are you the Keeper of Truth? The Protector of the Realm? Get over yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 5, 2019 Author Share Posted June 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: You do realize that when people disagree with you it doesn’t mean they’re lying right? Are you the Keeper of Truth? The Protector of the Realm? Get over yourself! They just do tell lies constantly. Nothing to do with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: They just do tell lies constantly. Nothing to do with me If it's constant there must be a lot of them. Give your top 397 Republican lies. Ok ok that's too many. Let's start with 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 7 hours ago, Tiberius said: Have we ever had an election marked by hacked information that was weaponized and used against a candidate by a foreign power before? Mr Secret Trump went against a candidate who had all her information--private information--hacked and weaponized against her. That was an attack on our system like no other. And almost certainly changed votes or suppressed some. The Russuans also at the very least tried hacking voting systems, voting machine companies and election officials. That deserved investigation free of obstruction, do you agree? Hillary Clinton, the DNC and our very own IC did more to damage our elections than anything the Russians did. 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: Oh, I'll be fine. I just think it's funny you guys can't handle the truth. How long can a the Republican political party last with all the lies they are built upon? projection much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 House Dems mull censure as alternative to impeachment… and headlined it “EXIT RAMP.” An easy prediction is that if the House does censure, the media will salivate over it as something unprecedented, staggering in its implications, the Democrats taking back the moral high ground, etc, rather than as the embarrassing walk-back from impeachment that it actually would be. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 lu·na·tic /ˈlo͞onəˌtik/ Learn to pronounce noun 1. a mentally ill person (not in technical use). synonyms: maniac, madman, madwoman, psychopath, psychotic; More ...........Pelosi tells Dems she wants to see Trump ‘in prison’ https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/05/pelosi-impeachment-1355435 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 30 minutes ago, B-Man said: lu·na·tic /ˈlo͞onəˌtik/ Learn to pronounce noun 1. a mentally ill person (not in technical use). synonyms: maniac, madman, madwoman, psychopath, psychotic; More ...........Pelosi tells Dems she wants to see Trump ‘in prison’ https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/05/pelosi-impeachment-1355435 Because she is trying to outrun a jail cell herself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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