Mr Decoy, Sammy Watkins expected to play vs. Colts

[Doc]

The Bills moved on from Sammy because of his attitude, injury concerns and the fact that they had a decision on whether to pay him a 5th year option bonus of $14M this year.  They got what they could for him and the trade was the right one seeing as how, while his attitude may be better, he appears to be an injury risk and his production will likely never match up to his talent and price tag.

[Magox]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well good thing the new regime learned from this and didn’t trade up for a receiver. 

That wasnt a good trade by Beane/Whaley.   

 

So you agree, the Zay and Watkins trades were bad.   But without doubt the Watkins one was worse.

[SWATeam]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well good thing the new regime learned from this and didn’t trade up for a receiver. 

Who did Beane trade up for?

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Magox said:

Yeah, his worst three years.

 

Remember the days that all the Sammy defenders used to cite the first three year Julio comparison like you just did?  The comparison was made basically making the point that Sammy would progress and flourish just like Julio, except.........

 

 

 

That never happened.

 

Just admit it, he has been a massive NFL disappointment.  He was supposed to be an All pro, rather than that he has been the 3rd and 4th leading receiver ON HIS TEAM with pro bowl QB's.

 

Those are the facts jack

Huh? Compare Sammy and Julio’s first 3 years.  And for as bad as everyone says he was last year, he had 9 tds.  Who was the last Bills receiver with 9 tds?

 

but yeah, you got me.  That’s why good offensive coaches keep acquiring him.  

1 minute ago, SWATeam said:

Must be that their "little jobs" make them bitter.

 

Your "rush back" comment is nonsense.  The man was out injured with his foot, and was still playing pick-up basketball at the LA Fitness in Buffalo...  Is basketball easy on the feet?  Sounds like he was really committed to rehabbing the foot.

If you’re loser talking crap to an athlete on social media, you probably have a little job.  Since I don’t, that didn’t bother me in the slightest. 

[Boatdrinks]

33 minutes ago, macaroni said:

 

Has nothing to do with contracts …. has to do with talent, and you measure talent with on the field numbers. The poster I was responding to said Sammy is a better WR than anybody who wore a Bills uniform by far. I was pointing out that he wasn't. I added the salary part tom illustrate that TALENTWISE he was comparable to Foster, and somewhat less than Jones, but VALUEWISE Foster+Jones has him beat hands down.

You believe talent wise  Zay Jones is comparable to Sammy Watkins ? Credibility  lost. Foster was a 5 star recruit out of HS ( still not as talented as Watkins) but Zay Jones ? Talent and production are two different things, but Jones doesn’t reside in the same talent universe as Sammy Watkins. As for relative to the other Bills this season or last, yes I will comfortably agree with the poster referenced that Watkins is far more talented than any of them.

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Doc said:

The Bills moved on from Sammy because of his attitude, injury concerns and the fact that they had a decision on whether to pay him a 5th year option bonus of $14M this year.  They got what they could for him and the trade was the right one seeing as how, while his attitude may be better, he appears to be an injury risk and his production will likely never match up to his talent and price tag.

 

From what we have seen since the trade I agree.,

 

But seems some people would prefer for him to still be here and the Bills to be paying him $1m per game to be watching from the sidelines..

[Magox]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Huh? Compare Sammy and Julio’s first 3 years.  And for as bad as everyone says he was last year, he had 9 tds.  Who was the last Bills receiver with 9 tds?

 

but yeah, you got me.  That’s why good offensive coaches keep acquiring him.  

If you’re loser talking crap to an athlete on social media, you probably have a little job.  Since I don’t, that didn’t bother me in the slightest. 

I didnt get you, Sammy simply has been a huge disappointment.  Those are just the facts

[macaroni]

31 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

He did lead the Rams in receiving TDs in 2017 with 9.

 

No Rams' WR in 2018 had more than 6.

 

You're correct, however, that the consistency just hasn't been there 

 

 

Hmmm The stats I saw had him at 39 catches for 593 yards and 8 TDs (not nine) for 2017. Jones this year had more catches, more yards, and one less TD. Now once again just to be clear … I'm NOT defending Jones … just comparing and contrasting Jones with Watkins to try and figure out which one is talented and which one is not … or heaven forbid maybe neither one is talented.

[SWATeam]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

If you’re loser talking crap to an athlete on social media, you probably have a little job.  Since I don’t, that didn’t bother me in the slightest. 

The point is not arguing the validity of his comment.  It's the fact that he was a moron for saying it.

[Boatdrinks]

19 minutes ago, Magox said:

Since when has he ever had a season comparable to those three?  He was healthy pretty much all last year and couldnt even crack 50 receptions and 650 yards receiving.

 

Its laughable to compare his career or production to those three.

 

Fwiw , he had 8 TDs ( most of the Rams WRs) and a higher YPC by a significant margin on a fraction of the targets those players had in 2017. Goff was fond of the underneath throws and took them often. He never really had the chemistry with SW and amazingly even managed to overthrow him several times., which is hard to do. 

2 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

The point is not arguing the validity of his comment.  It's the fact that he was a moron for saying it.

Why ? Nothing wrong with stating the truth and I applauded him at the time for saying it. 

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

The Bills moved on from Sammy because of his attitude, injury concerns and the fact that they had a decision on whether to pay him a 5th year option bonus of $14M this year.  They got what they could for him and the trade was the right one seeing as how, while his attitude may be better, he appears to be an injury risk and his production will likely never match up to his talent and price tag.

Thank god they resolved those attitudes/ injuries concerns by acquiring Jordan Matthews and Kelvin Benjamin.  

 

But I guess we’ll see how Sammy does in his playoff game.  Enjoy the game. ?

9 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Who did Beane trade up for?

Zay.  Beane’s boss made the trade because we had Zay’s college coach. 

[formerlyofCtown]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The 2 best seasons that Sammy has had, by far, came in Buffalo. Over his 5 seasons in the NFL 57% of his career receiving yards came in his first 2 years here. Since then he has had trouble staying on the field and his QBs are treating him like a #2 or #3. This isn't a debate anymore. He has never been worth what a single team gave up for him. Maybe he'll finally turn it on, he is still only 25 years old. I'm not holding my breath though.

 

I didn't want to embarrass you by reposting the part about Sammy being in the same conversation at Antonio Brown and Julio Jones. How is that even a question?

Injuries is all bro.  Im not gonna be embarrased His numbers factually back that up and apperantly the NFL agrees given the salary he recieves.  Or do you also think you know more than Andy Reid.

Edited January 12, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[C.Biscuit97]

5 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

The point is not arguing the validity of his comment.  It's the fact that he was a moron for saying it.

I hate this logic.  The 23 year old football player has to be more mature that the loser 30 year old + adults who are harassing him on social media.  So dumb.  

[Magox]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Fwiw , he had 8 TDs ( most of the Rams WRs) and a higher YPC by a significant margin on a fraction of the targets those players had in 2017. Goff was fond of the underneath throws and took them often. He never really had the chemistry with SW and amazingly even managed to overthrow him several times., which is hard to do. 

We can attempt to rationalize his lack of production which is something that his defenders are always having to do.

 

I'm not saying he is a bum or a low quality receiver.  I happen to think he is a serviceable # 1 WR, albeit inconsistent and often injured but serviceable none the less.  The question for me always was " Is he worth elite #1 WR money?"

 

It always came back to that for me and for me......

 

No, no he is not worth that.  I am very glad that we got what we did out of that trade which was Gaines who was a very valuable member of this team last year, a 2nd rounder that helped us land Josh Allen and huge cap savings that hopefully will allow us to get some players this upcoming year.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Thank god they resolved those attitudes/ injuries concerns by acquiring Jordan Matthews and Kelvin Benjamin.  

 

Who said they resolved anything?  Again they traded Sammy  for several reasons to get something while they could. 

[teef]

3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Injuries is all bro.  Im not gonna be embarrased His numbers factually back that up and apperantly the NFL agrees given the salary he recieves.  Or do you also think you know more than Andy Reid.

Do you think Andy Reid is happy with sammy’s production this year?

[formerlyofCtown]

18 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

Learn to read kid.  No one doubts his ability, at least not this guy.  What I have been saying for 2 years now is that he is very inconsistent and injury plagued.  That is indisputable if you are being honest with yourself.

Maybe you should learn to read as I said he would be in that confo if he didnt ever have the injuries.  But we do agree that the injuries are at the heart of the issue.  I dont think he has been healthy since the original injury.  KC needs to bite the bullet and sit his as$ for an entire season.

Edited January 12, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[teef]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Who said they resolved anything?  Again they traded Sammy  for several reasons to get something while they could. 

People are grasping at straws with these arguments. Sammy is a good wr, but I don’t know how anyone can argue that his career has been disappointing. Some of the points people are using to back up Sammy are laughable. 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Magox said:

We can attempt to rationalize his lack of production which is something that his defenders are always having to do.

 

I'm not saying he is a bum or a low quality receiver.  I happen to think he is a serviceable # 1 WR, albeit inconsistent and often injured but serviceable none the less.  The question for me always was " Is he worth elite #1 WR money?"

 

It always came back to that for me and for me......

 

No, no he is not worth that.  I am very glad that we got what we did out of that trade which was Gaines who was a very valuable member of this team last year, a 2nd rounder that helped us land Josh Allen and huge cap savings that hopefully will allow us to get some players this upcoming year.

I would have preferred the Bills keep Watkins and use other resources to land Allen. They chose not to, and that’s all that matters. There is no rationalization, however circumstances have dictated certain results. You can’t catch what isn’t thrown at you, and can’t play if you’re injured. Watkins is worth whatever an NFL team is willing to pay him, as is any other player. When he no longer is meeting that standard he will be released. The market is never wrong ; the results don’t always equal value though. 

2 minutes ago, teef said:

People are grasping at straws with these arguments. Sammy is a good wr, but I don’t know how anyone can argue that his career has been disappointing. Some of the points people are using to back up Sammy are laughable. 

That is the best , most correct way of stating it imo. His career has been disappointing compared to the talent. It’s when these detractors try to minimize the talent and potential that credibility is lost. 

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I would have preferred the Bills keep Watkins and use other resources to land Allen. They chose not to, and that’s all that matters. There is no rationalization, however circumstances have dictated certain results. You can’t catch what isn’t thrown at you, and can’t play if you’re injured. Watkins is worth whatever an NFL team is willing to pay him, as is any other player. When he no longer is meeting that standard he will be released. The market is never wrong ; the results don’t always equal value though. 

I don’t think Sammy was paid market value. His numbers don’t match his salary.  IMO he was paid on potential when it comes to KC. It didn’t work out for them at all this year. It may  next season, but that remains to be seen. 

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Injuries is all bro.  Im not gonna be embarrased His numbers factually back that up and apperantly the NFL agrees given the salary he recieves.  Or do you also think you know more than Andy Reid.

 

The numbers back up that he is as good as Deandre Hopkins?? This debate is going nowhere if that's how some Bills fans honestly believe. And no "the NFL" doesn't agree. The Chiefs agree. It takes one team to overpay someone. That's why we traded him. We didn't want to be that team. It is inarguable that we made the right choice in that trade, just like we inarguably made a bad move trading for Benjamin. We don't need to flounder for excuses. The Rams made a bad trade and the Chiefs gave out a bad contract, unless something drastically changes next year.

[formerlyofCtown]

5 minutes ago, teef said:

Do you think Andy Reid is happy with sammy’s production this year?

I absolutely do until the injury he was definitley doing his part Very dependable high catch percentage.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said:

I would have preferred the Bills keep Watkins and use other resources to land Allen. They chose not to, and that’s all that matters. There is no rationalization, however circumstances have dictated certain results. You can’t catch what isn’t thrown at you, and can’t play if you’re injured. Watkins is worth whatever an NFL team is willing to pay him, as is any other player. When he no longer is meeting that standard he will be released. The market is never wrong ; the results don’t always equal value though. 

 

The market is...the market.  There is no right or wrong and it's up to the commodity proving it's value.   Sammy has not proven his value and it's questionable he ever will. 

[Elite Poster]

Well that's a nice play

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

I would have preferred the Bills keep Watkins and use other resources to land Allen. They chose not to, and that’s all that matters. There is no rationalization, however circumstances have dictated certain results. You can’t catch what isn’t thrown at you, and can’t play if you’re injured. Watkins is worth whatever an NFL team is willing to pay him, as is any other player. When he no longer is meeting that standard he will be released. The market is never wrong ; the results don’t always equal value though. 

That is the best , most correct way of stating it imo. His career has been disappointing compared to the talent. It’s when these detractors try to minimize the talent and potential that credibility is lost. 

Sammy is wildly talented. For some reason, it just hasn’t reflected in his numbers. Injuries are a part of that, but at the end of the day, he has to play better for what he’s paid. 

[YoloinOhio]

Looks good so far! Quite a move

[C.Biscuit97]

Bum!

[teef]

1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I absolutely do until the injury he was definitley doing his part Very dependable high catch percentage.

I wouldn’t be happy with those numbers. That being said, he has his contract to prove it. He has the talent. 

[Doc]

 Aided by a block in the back that went uncalled 

[macaroni]

19 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

You believe talent wise  Zay Jones is comparable to Sammy Watkins ? Credibility  lost. Foster was a 5 star recruit out of HS ( still not as talented as Watkins) but Zay Jones ? Talent and production are two different things, but Jones doesn’t reside in the same talent universe as Sammy Watkins. As for relative to the other Bills this season or last, yes I will comfortably agree with the poster referenced that Watkins is far more talented than any of them.

 

Maybe that's where I'm confused … if production is NOT a measurement of talent, what should I be using to determine who is talented and who is not?

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, teef said:

I don’t think Sammy was paid market value. His numbers don’t match his salary.  IMO he was paid on potential when it comes to KC. It didn’t work out for them at all this year. It may  next season, but that remains to be seen. 

He was paid on talent / ability , and that drives the market. Production may be related to a stystem or other circumstances so production alone doesn’t drive the market. The market cannot be wrong, as it is just what a team is willing to pay for acquiring talent. When that doesn’t equal value to the team, the player will be released / traded or whatever. 

Just now, macaroni said:

 

Maybe that's where I'm confused … if production is NOT a measurement of talent, what should I be using to determine who is talented and who is not?

The eyeballs.

Watkins looked pretty okay there. The guy has talent. Folks who say otherwise just have an axe to grind/ had their feelings hurt by Sammy’s social media comments. That’s pretty much it. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, macaroni said:

 

Maybe that's where I'm confused … if production is NOT a measurement of talent, what should I be using to determine who is talented and who is not?

If it was all about production and not talent, Josh Allen would not have been a first round pick. 

[Doc]

Talent gets you a shot. After that you need to produce. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

Talent gets you a shot. After that you need to produce. 

Yup and good offensive coaches keep betting on Sammy’s talent.  And he’s been on the number 1 offense two years in a row. Lucky dude I guess. 

[macaroni]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If it was all about production and not talent, Josh Allen would not have been a first round pick. 

 

IMHO Josh Allen was drafted on potential, if he has talent or not is yet to be seen. I really like the kid and hope he produces to show us talent

[formerlyofCtown]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The numbers back up that he is as good as Deandre Hopkins?? This debate is going nowhere if that's how some Bills fans honestly believe. And no "the NFL" doesn't agree. The Chiefs agree. It takes one team to overpay someone. That's why we traded him. We didn't want to be that team. It is inarguable that we made the right choice in that trade, just like we inarguably made a bad move trading for Benjamin. We don't need to flounder for excuses. The Rams made a bad trade and the Chiefs gave out a bad contract, unless something drastically changes next year.

Nice twisting of words their bro.  I said for a nine game stretch.  Let me know when your reading comprehention improves.  As for now youre correct this conversation is over.

[Malazan]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So healthy Sammy vs. Foster. You’re picking Foster?

 

11 out of 10 times. 

[macaroni]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

Talent gets you a shot. After that you need to produce. 

 

 

I think you may be confusing talent with potential … for example;

Josh Allen has potential, if he produces we will all think he is talented.

Nathan Peterman had potential, he didn't produce, so we all know he has no talent (except for Chucky and the Raiders).

[formerlyofCtown]

12 minutes ago, macaroni said:

 

Maybe that's where I'm confused … if production is NOT a measurement of talent, what should I be using to determine who is talented and who is not?

You watch the player play or you could look at his college stats if you cant grasp anything other than stats.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yup and good offensive coaches keep betting on Sammy’s talent.  And he’s been on the number 1 offense two years in a row. Lucky dude I guess. 

 

One gave him a year. The other probably wishes he had.  And he's not the reason those offense were #1 so yeah, luck. 

2 minutes ago, macaroni said:

I think you may be confusing talent with potential … for example;

Josh Allen has potential, if he produces we will all think he is talented.

Nathan Peterman had potential, he didn't produce, so we all know he has no talent (except for Chucky and the Raiders).

 

No, Josh has talent and potential. Peterman just had potential.