Andy Benoit's 2018 Top Twelve Defensive Rookies; Tremaine Edmunds at 11; Cover 1 Breaks Down Edmunds in Week 14

[nedboy7]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Is this your first time?

 

People often tend to react to poorly founded opinions by injecting perspective. Or at least it’s commonplace here.  

 

Welcome btw.  

 

Nice tone. How is it a poor opinion to think trading up for the 4th LB was not a good idea?  I’m confused. It seems you are taking his opinion personally. 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

When judging a draft pick, I think it's fair to look at the player who was selected -- as well as any other players who could have been selected instead. 

It's also fair to criticize a GM for trading up, if it's eventually shown the move was not necessary.

 

However, it's not fair to judge any player so early into his career.

Whether good or bad.

 

Let's see how Tremaine Edmunds stacks up on this list 3-4 years down the road.

 

 

 

If Edmunds turns out to be a consistent probowler for 5-7 years then the pick will be worth it. The Bills swapped an early 3rd for a mid 5th to trade up to 16 to take him, that's a significant cost but its not tragic to move up to take a prospect you think is elite. Value is a valid concern but a modest trade up to acquire an elite player is not something a team will likely regret. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Context for Tremaine Edmunds’s Performance vs. the Jets

 

 

Erik Turner - 12/12/2018

 

Rookie linebacker Tremaine Edmunds was drafted 16th overall by the Bills and immediately inserted into the middle linebacker role in Leslie Frazier’s defense. The now 20-year-old has had a rollercoaster of a season. At times his natural athleticism has shone through, but at other times his immaturity at the position has led people to question the selection.

 

Bob Babich, his position coach, and I talk about that often. Sometimes we’re having meetings and we’re just talking and leading meetings, and we talk about all the things that we put on his plate, and then you realize how young he is, and the fact that it’s a new position, because he was an outside linebacker in college. Now, you’re a middle linebacker in the National Football League, so young at what he’s doing, to see his growth is just incredible. You have high hopes for his future. He’s just going to keep getting better and better. -DC Leslie Frazier

 

Those who believe that Edmunds was over-drafted or not worth the selection may not truly understand what he is asked to do. Most fans will chalk up Frazier’s statement about Edmunds becoming more “comfortable in this system” or how “his communication, handling all the different things that show up during a ball game that he struggled with early in the season” as coach-speak, but you will see all of those things in action in this article.

 

So today, I want to dive into Edmunds’s film vs. the Jets to show you some of his good and bad plays, but more importantly, to give you some context surrounding what he is being asked to do. This should help you understand why he was in a position to make the interception downfield and why he was half a click late and unable make the tackle on another play.

 

One of the major coverages the Bills play is quarters. You will see it creep up several times in this game, so I’ll give you a crash course into quarters coverage from the perspective of the Mike linebacker. One of the main ways to beat this coverage is to attack the middle linebacker, and teams did that frequently in 2017 when Preston Brown was the Mike. They had a ton of success. Edmunds has done a much better job, but there is still room for improvement.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Kyle Williams: "Continue to Prepare" (6:46)

Defensive Tackle Kyle Williams addressed the media inside the locker room topics include; LB Tremaine Edmunds leadership skills, QB Josh Allen setting into a leadership role on the offense, and his message to the team for the final three weeks.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Nice tone. How is it a poor opinion to think trading up for the 4th LB was not a good idea?  I’m confused. It seems you are taking his opinion personally. 

 

Actually I was closer to taking the objection to my objection of the opinion seriously. 

 

To clear the confusion, of course its unassailable logic to conclude abs contrast the entire career trajectory of several rookies on different teams 13 games into their career. 

 

 I mean what else is there to know? 

[78thealltimegreat]

Give Edmunds time he’ll be a good one but LVE is probably headed to Canton Ohio the kid is that good 

[TigerJ]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.  I don't worry overmuch about that stuff.  I love the athleticism and potential of both Allen and Edmunds.  Maybe the fact that they are a little more raw than somebody else that Buffalo could have taken, or maybe Buffalo could have taken somebody later that would have been as effective, or even more effective as rookies.  But now they are both Bills and have all kinds of upside.  It's just exciting to me to watch them climb the learning curve to see where they end up.  Next year, when both will have the benefit of a year of experience as going to be awesome.

[K-9]

I’ve suspected that Edmunds’s biggest issue is hesitancy born out of thinking too much. After reading Frazier’s comments above, I’m convinced of it. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

I’ve suspected that Edmunds’s biggest issue is hesitancy born out of thinking too much. After reading Frazier’s comments above, I’m convinced of it. 

 

He was scouted in college as biting on the wrong hole or play action. With experience, film and reps, he’s going to outgrow that. 

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

He was scouted in college as biting on the wrong hole or play action. With experience, film and reps, he’s going to outgrow that. 

Yeah, I agree that biting on play fakes is one of his issues, but I think he’s improved in that area, at least incrementally, over the course of the season. I still think his biggest issue is hesitancy though. He’s been sipping from a fire hose since OTAs.

[John from Riverside]

17 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Give Edmunds time he’ll be a good one but LVE is probably headed to Canton Ohio the kid is that good 

In year 1 we are making these kinds of statements....LOL

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Yeah, I agree that biting on play fakes is one of his issues, but I think he’s improved in that area, at least incrementally, over the course of the season. I still think his biggest issue is hesitancy though. He’s been sipping from a fire hose since OTAs.

 

Right- he was abused by Baltimore and San Diego in that regard. But it’s been improving.  

 

Thinking some one of the hesitation is trying to avoid the above. 

 

Maybe he’s never going to be instinctive like Ray Lewis but he can certainly work his way to looking like it. 

[JerseyBills]

I think you could have made an argument for Taron Johnson on this list too. I also think Edmunds makes a considerable jump in year 2. For 20 years old , handling the responsibilities of a MLB, he's done a fine job in year 1, i think we're talking pro bowl potential in year 2 as he cleans up a couple kinks in his game. Overall, Back to Back great drafts, most excited Ive been for the future as a Bill fan in my lifetime.

Edited December 13, 2018 by JerseyBills

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Big Turk]

23 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Give Edmunds time he’ll be a good one but LVE is probably headed to Canton Ohio the kid is that good 

Funny that's the opinion of many Bills defensive vets when asked about Edmunds...and they were not joking.

 

Wonder what they know that most posters don't...things that make you go hmmm....

[Thurman#1]

On 12/13/2018 at 1:25 AM, Dadonkadonk said:

So far trading up for Edmunds looks like a wasted pick. They could have found a LB in the second round and had another high draft pick for the OL.

Poor choice by Beane to trade up.

Edmunds the player however has been fine. If he continues to get better he can be the anchor the defense needs for the next 5-7 years. And still only be 27. Amazing.

 

 

Getting a great player is worth a trade up, at least if it's not sacrificing 1st rounder or a pick that would prevent you from trading up for a possible franchise QB.

 

They gave up the 22nd and 65th for the Edmunds pick and the 154th. If he turns out as well as even you think he might, it will have been a very good trade. Yeah, they could have used the 65th (the first pick of the third round, by the way, not the 2nd) to find an LB. Who wouldn't have been as good as Edmunds, in the McDermott scheme in which having a real stud at that position is necessary.

 

Both the player and the trade make sense ... if he turns out as well as we all hope he will.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Thurman#1

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Subscription required for full access:

 

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. — During his weekly news conference on Monday, Bills defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier couldn’t contain his excitement about rookie linebacker Tremaine Edmunds. Each question prompted a smile and a story from Frazier, who has taken great pride in watching the 20-year old first-round pick develop this season.

 

Perhaps the greatest sign of that development came last Thursday, a few days before the Bills would host the Jets. For years, defensive tackle Kyle Williams has led a players-only meeting for the defense on Thursday to review their 9-on-7 film from practice. He wants to make sure everyone is on the same page with the run defense, so they know what runs to expect when the offense comes out in a certain formation and how to respond.

 

Last week, Williams thought it would be a good idea for Edmunds to run the meeting. He may be just 20 years old, but Williams already views him as the one who will be leading this defense for years.

 

“He’s a guy that displays the right habits,” Williams said. “He wants to be better at everything. I want to help him to grow. I want Tremaine to be as good a football player as I think Tremaine wants to be. I see somebody that is going to be a cornerstone here for a longtime. You play a mike position where you need to be the bellcow. So let’s get this started early, I’ll help you.”

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

3. Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Buffalo Bills

The Skinny: Edmunds is clearly talented and athletic, with flashes of nice play this season. Inconsistency mars his game however, and he has struggled to get runners on the ground 1v1. Missed tackles are a big concern moving forward, as is his ability to stack-and-shed blocks cleanly. Eventually, the team should get more in coverage from a guy with his traits.

 

Outlook: Edmunds has gotten better as the season has gone on, and it’s important to remember he isn’t even 21 yet. Physically and mentally he has a lot of maturing to do, while he’s already ahead of the curve in his work ethic and personal conduct around the organization. I had an early second round grade on Edmunds and wasn’t quite as high on him as some others, but I do think the arrow is pointing up for his career in the NFL.

[BADOLBILZ]

41 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

3. Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Buffalo Bills

The Skinny: Edmunds is clearly talented and athletic, with flashes of nice play this season. Inconsistency mars his game however, and he has struggled to get runners on the ground 1v1. Missed tackles are a big concern moving forward, as is his ability to stack-and-shed blocks cleanly. Eventually, the team should get more in coverage from a guy with his traits.

 

Outlook: Edmunds has gotten better as the season has gone on, and it’s important to remember he isn’t even 21 yet. Physically and mentally he has a lot of maturing to do, while he’s already ahead of the curve in his work ethic and personal conduct around the organization. I had an early second round grade on Edmunds and wasn’t quite as high on him as some others, but I do think the arrow is pointing up for his career in the NFL.

 

 

If they keep him at MLB next year they need to invest in safety depth in the event that Edmunds can't take a big step up wrt instinctive type MLB play.

 

 Poyer in particular will end up on IR if he has to keep making half of his tackles for him.

 

On every snap he's one false step from making a play............add that step and he's a lock pro bowl player........without it he's JAG who looks like the best player on the team at the airport.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

On every snap he's one false step from making a play............add that step and he's a lock pro bowl player........without it he's JAG who looks like the best player on the team at the airport.

 

That goal line play in particular against the Jets - I remember Urlacher making that play his rookie year.  Not saying Edmunds won't get it, but I agree with you they need to hedge their bets somewhat.

[ctk232]

On 12/12/2018 at 8:32 AM, buffalobillswin said:

I think it is similar to Luke Kuechly and Bobby Wagner. 

 

Kuechly is an amazing player and the Panthers should have no regrets picking him 9th overall but...Bobby Wagner in the 2nd round was a much better value.

 

Something similar may become true between Edmunds and LVE/Darrius Leonard

It's easy to say this in retrospect though, which I get is what you are doing here. But this can be done with almost any player at any position that a team trades up for. I agree, trading up may not have been the best move overall, but there's equally no guarantee the guy we end up picking next if we don't trade up pans out at all. It's also still too early to say how the rest of any of these careers will go. It's nothing new, but his age really does matter in this context - he just hasn't had the literal ability to experience as much football as anyone else in the league, how could he only being 20? But you may start to see the value committed to this pick start to reflect more in year two and three as he not only gets more experience, but is hitting his prime development years already in the NFL and with a defensive minded coach that has had demonstrated success with creating LBs. 

 

Something this made me think of, being somewhat related: popular opinion on almost every player is typically weighted based upon what it took to get them - to me, that is only as fair as you extend the blame for lack of performance to the player vs. the FO for not properly evaluating the talent, which I appreciate you doing here. For example, the Zay Jones pick - I truly think this guy has great WR2 potential and could be an absolute key piece in our corps moving forward, but given that he was a trade up pick in the second, it was immediately assumed we would hope him to become our WR1 of the future, refusing to consider his own skillset, physical traits, etc., all of which point to a slot/WR2 success. Perspective is a helluva drug.

 

That being said, while we could've gotten a Darius Leonard in the 2nd vs. trading up for Edmunds - there is no guarantee it works out in our favor that way either. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by ctk232

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[TigerJ]

On 12/13/2018 at 5:09 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Right- he was abused by Baltimore and San Diego in that regard. But it’s been improving.  

 

Thinking some one of the hesitation is trying to avoid the above. 

 

Maybe he’s never going to be instinctive like Ray Lewis but he can certainly work his way to looking like it. 

"Instinctive" is one of those words we use without fully understanding what it is and where it comes from.  "Players are born with it," you say.  Yet by the time a player makes it to the NFL, most have been playing football in some form for 12-14 years or so.  Did they have a fully developed instinct for the game when they started in Peewee football?  Certainly there are kids of 7 or 8 years old who have something that other kids the same age don't have, but a whole lot of development still needs to take place.  It's just about unprecedented for a player as young as Tremaine Edmunds to play in the NFL, to say nothing of the fact that the middle linebacker is the player who makes the defensive calls.  He bears more responsibility than anyone else on the defense for recognizing what the offense is doing, and then putting his teammates in a position to succeed in countering what the offense is doing.  Roquan Smith, the other highly rated rookie linebacker from the same draft, is older and came from an SEC powerhouse school where he had some of the finest coaching money can buy at the college level.  It may be that Tremaine Edmunds will as you suggest never be as "instinctive" as Roquan Smith or Luke Kuechly, whatever that is,  but I think it's really too early to get overwrought about his ceiling as a player.  I'm thinking he pretty darned instinctive for a 20 year old kid.  Everything I've seen suggests he's learning by leaps and bounds, and is far less likely now than he was three moths ago to bite on misdirection.  My assumption is he's still on his learning curve, and a year from now his "football intelligence" and "instinct' are going to be far more developed than they are right now.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 hours ago, TigerJ said:

"Instinctive" is one of those words we use without fully understanding what it is and where it comes from.  "Players are born with it," you say.  Yet by the time a player makes it to the NFL, most have been playing football in some form for 12-14 years or so.  Did they have a fully developed instinct for the game when they started in Peewee football?  Certainly there are kids of 7 or 8 years old who have something that other kids the same age don't have, but a whole lot of development still needs to take place.  It's just about unprecedented for a player as young as Tremaine Edmunds to play in the NFL, to say nothing of the fact that the middle linebacker is the player who makes the defensive calls.  He bears more responsibility than anyone else on the defense for recognizing what the offense is doing, and then putting his teammates in a position to succeed in countering what the offense is doing.  Roquan Smith, the other highly rated rookie linebacker from the same draft, is older and came from an SEC powerhouse school where he had some of the finest coaching money can buy at the college level.  It may be that Tremaine Edmunds will as you suggest never be as "instinctive" as Roquan Smith or Luke Kuechly, whatever that is,  but I think it's really too early to get overwrought about his ceiling as a player.  I'm thinking he pretty darned instinctive for a 20 year old kid.  Everything I've seen suggests he's learning by leaps and bounds, and is far less likely now than he was three moths ago to bite on misdirection.  My assumption is he's still on his learning curve, and a year from now his "football intelligence" and "instinct' are going to be far more developed than they are right now.

 

I use ‘instinctive’ Having a firm grasp of what it means and what it looks like in athletes. And when talking about it I referenced Ray Lewis.

 

aside from that you basically reiterated the same  assertion with a ton more words.

 

so I guess we agree? ?‍♂️

[billspro]

On 12/12/2018 at 8:20 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

11. Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Bills (16th overall)
The NFL’s youngest player (he won’t turn 21 until May) struggled immensely in zone coverage early in the season, making play-action the favorite tactic of every Bills opponent. But to Edmunds’s credit, he has become more patient with his reads early in the down, which has allowed him to better employ his speed late in the down. With fellow starting linebacker Matt Milano having a surprisingly stellar season before fracturing his fibula on Sunday, Buffalo’s defense is set inside for the foreseeable future. Linebackers are crucial to this team, as head coach Sean McDermott has brought over many of the double-A-gap pressures and disguises that he ran with Luke Kuechly and Thomas Davis in Carolina.

 

12-12: Tremaine Edmunds on One Bills Live (9:27)

 

 

 

This is the same guy that had Josh Allen ranked 5th out of the rookie QBs today. He work is useless.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, billspro said:

 

This is the same guy that had Josh Allen ranked 5th out of the rookie QBs today. He work is useless.

 

Based on what? Your dislike of his opinion?  Do as much film study as he does and get back.

[billspro]

20 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Based on what? Your dislike of his opinion?  Do as much film study as he does and get back.

 

I have trouble buying you watch film and have Rosen ranked as the number 2 rookie QB.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, billspro said:

 

I have trouble buying you watch film and have Rosen ranked as the number 2 rookie QB.

 

You're not absorbing the full meaning of his opinion that isn't a snapshot of today that you seem to be stuck on. 

 

"Rookie QBs' long-term outlooks ranked based on how the QBs have looked on film so far"

[billspro]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You're not absorbing the full meaning of his opinion that isn't a snapshot of today that you seem to be stuck on. 

 

"Rookie QBs' long-term outlooks ranked based on how the QBs have looked on film so far"

 

The bolded words don’t really change anything for me. He is saying that Rosen has better film than Allen because in no world does he have more potential. It’s a predraft bias and it makes me sceptical he has even watch Allen’s film. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, billspro said:

 

The bolded words don’t really change anything for me. He is saying that Rosen has better film than Allen because in no world does he have more potential. It’s a predraft bias and it makes me sceptical he has even watch Allen’s film. 

 

 

Of course you have watched all of these QBs on film and have no bias.  

 

 

 

[billspro]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Of course you have watched all of these QBs on film and have no bias.  

 

 

 

 

I have not. Nobody really has time to watch everyone on film including this guy from SI. Darnold has put some good games out there. I would find it hard to believe a QB leading the league in pick sixes has better film than the other guys in a really strong rookie class. And Allen has put some really good plays on film the last four weeks and there is no bias there, they are just impressive NFL plays.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

I have not. Nobody really has time to watch everyone on film including this guy from SI. Darnold has put some good games out there. I would find it hard to believe a QB leading the league in pick sixes has better film than the other guys in a really strong rookie class. And Allen has put some really good plays on film the last four weeks and there is no bias there, they are just impressive NFL plays.

 

His is an informed opinion based on the work he does with a long term projection. Cherry picking a negative stat that you have no idea of the circumstances of is a bad way to project long term success or failure with no context. Just admit you don't like his opinion and again what does it really mean.  In the end, nothing. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[billspro]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

His is an informed opinion based on the work he does with a long term projection. Cherry picking a negative stat that you have no idea of the circumstances of is a bad way to project long term success or failure with no context. Just admit you don't like his opinion and again what does it really mean.  In the end, nothing. 

 

I think his opinion is wrong and bias like most of the national media with Josh Allen. We will find out in year 3. If you want good coverage on players and teams you have to go local.

 

What are his credentials for evaluating film? You seem to respect him.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, billspro said:

 

I think his opinion is wrong and bias like most of the national media with Josh Allen. We will find out in year 3. If you want good coverage on players and teams you have to go local.

 

What are his credentials for evaluating film? You seem to respect him.

 

Of course you do. If his opinon were the same as yours he'd be brilliant and you haven't put the work in to assess his view witout bias.  Look him up for yourself. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[billspro]

10 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Of course you do. If his opinon were the same as yours he'd be brilliant and you haven't put the work in to assess his view witout bias.  Look him up for yourself. 

 

I’m confident Allen is going to be special. I have no issue writing that prediction on here as I’m right more often than not. We will see who’s opinion is right in 3 years.

 

Interested to see what he says if the Bills beat the Pats this week and I think there is a good chance that happens as well.

Edited December 21, 2018 by billspro

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, billspro said:

I’m confident Allen is going to be special. I have no issue writing that prediction on here as I’m right more often than not. We will see who’s opinion is right in 3 years.

 

He has shown some really good signs of late, but has a lot of developing to do.  Confident? Based on what?

[billspro]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He has shown some really good signs of late, but has a lot of developing to do.  Confident? Based on what?

 

Watching a lot of QB film (mostly college) for the past 8 years. I feel I have a good sense for a legit QB.