CaptnCoke11 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MichaelAbdallah said: No, dropped to #2 because Baltimore had a great game. Our remaining schedule is very favorable, however, for reclaiming the title. The title lol. They are 21st in both total points given up and points per game.. Edited November 20, 2018 by CaptnCoke11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said: The title lol. They are 21st in both total points given up and points per game.. Just as one can claim that being tops in yards/game is due to offensive turnovers and field position (opposing offenses haven't had as far to go to score, therefore fewer yards)---a pessimistic view of the defense imo, which isn't, however, untrue--- One can also say the defense is bad in points allowed for the same reason, because opposing offenses have had great starting field position due to those same turnovers and bad offense (on our part). If one is true, than so is the other. Their yardage statistic may be a bit overrated due to that, but then their point totals are also inflated by that same factor. If the offense was good enough to give the defense some leads, the defense's stats would be better (more sacks and turnovers and probably fewer points). Or even if the offense was good enough to change field position on their possessions and opposing offenses had to drive on average say 75 yards to score instead of 35-40 yards to score, those point totals would look a lot better. I don't think one can look at either just yards or just points scored to rank a defense. Sometimes those stats are just too dependent on the rest of the team (offense and special teams), schedule, and game situations. You have to kind of look at everything together. So, are the Bills the best (or 2nd best) defense in the league right now? The defense other teams would fear most? Probably not. But are they still a very good, top-notch defense? (and still getting better) Yes. And the #1 defensive ranking (even though it is based on just yards) at least gives the guys something to still shoot for the rest of the season, to keep them improving, motivated, now that playoffs hopes are, if not dead, very slim. Edited November 20, 2018 by folz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 The Rams / Saints / Chiefs would hang 40+ on our “good D”. Any high ranking has more to do with who we’ve played and teams knowing they can turn it off when they get 22 points than our D actually being good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 44 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: The Rams / Saints / Chiefs would hang 40+ on our “good D”. Any high ranking has more to do with who we’ve played and teams knowing they can turn it off when they get 22 points than our D actually being good. Despite my last post, I tried to look at your premise with an unbiased view, and you are probably right...those three offenses are scoring at historic levels and would probably have their way with the Buffalo D, at least eventually, especially because there is no way our offense could keep up with those teams, so the defense even if good to start, would eventually wear out. Not to mention that those teams are having their way with every defense in the league this year. I definitely don't think anyone here is calling the Bills defense elite (due to their current ranking), an 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens type defense that could completely shut down even the best offenses in the league. But, since we haven't actually played those three teams, thinking they would get blown up by them, doesn't help to actually figure out who our defense is or where they really stand. So, I thought I'd take a look at our actual opponents and how we fared against them to try and get a more accurate picture. Bills Opponents NFL rank points NFL rank yards Indianapolis 5th 9th Chicago 6th 16th New England 7th 10th LA Chargers 10th 7th Green Bay 13th 8th Minnesota 15th 14th Houston 16th 13th Baltimore 17th 12th NY Jets 23rd 29th Tennessee 28th 30th So, 8 of our 10 games were against top half of the league offenses with only two really bad offenses on the docket. We kept 8 of the 10 teams we've played below their average yardage total per game (as of week 11) and kept 6 of the 10 teams below their average point total per game. 3 of the 4 times we didn't keep a team below its point average, however, were against 3 of the 4 best offenses we faced this year. But, I don't think you can fault the defense for the Chicago game. Our offense committed 4 turnovers and their defense scored 14 points. Our defense only gave up 190 yards and 27 points (despite the 2 other turnovers that didn't go for TDs), which would be below Chicago's average points and yardage per game this season. And I definitely do not give the defense a pass for the Indy game, they didn't play well, but the offense did give up 5 turnovers in that one too. We did hold Green Bay and New England (2 of the 5 best offenses we faced with elite QBs) below their average point total and frustrated both QBs, despite the losses. And there were really only 8 of 40 quarters played, the second halves of the IND, LAC, CHI, and BAL games, where you could claim that offenses could or did take their foot off the gas, but Baltimore didn't (they kept scoring in the 3rd and 4th quarters), nor did Indy, who scored 13 points in the 4th quarter, or Chicago, who scored 10 in the 4th, and I really don't think the Chargers took their foot off the gas (if you go back and watch that game), our defense just finally clicked on. So, I don't think that point is valid. I do agree with you that as of now, we would probably get run up on by New Orleans, KC, or the Rams...but I also think there is enough evidence to show that this is indeed a very good defense that is still learning and growing and getting better. And you can not divorce the offensive woes from how it affects the D and how much more they have had to overcome than other defenses because of it. I mean, our offense averaged 10 points and 2 turnovers a game over the first 9 weeks and is last in points scored and 2nd last in yards gained. That's a lot of factors against a defense. They're on the field longer, in worse field position, and never playing with a lead. The Bills may not be the best defense in the league right now, but you have to give them some credit. They're playing really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Meanwhile on the planet of the top teams the scores are 54-51 And 1151 yards were racked up in the last SB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: The Rams / Saints / Chiefs would hang 40+ on our “good D”. Any high ranking has more to do with who we’ve played and teams knowing they can turn it off when they get 22 points than our D actually being good. Winner! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 7 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: The Rams / Saints / Chiefs would hang 40+ on our “good D”. Any high ranking has more to do with who we’ve played and teams knowing they can turn it off when they get 22 points than our D actually being good. Curious How have they played against teams like the Bears, Bills, Ravens, Jags and Vikes? We can attest to keeping Brady and Rodgers from throwing a TD pass and keeping the score to 25 and under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Curious How have they played against teams like the Bears, Bills, Ravens, Jags and Vikes? We can attest to keeping Brady and Rodgers from throwing a TD pass and keeping the score to 25 and under. The Packers and Pats were never threatened by us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Looking at those top defensive teams, 2 are near the bottom of the overall standings in the league because they have no offence, 2 are mediocre teams fighting to stay in the playoff hunt/spot. And one is doing well because they have a good offence to go with their defence. Looking at the top of the standings, the top 3 teams are their because of their high scoring high powered offences, and not because of their defences. They win because they can keep outscoring their opponents no matter what happens with the defence. You win games by outscoring your opponent, not by having more turnovers or sacks, or giving up little yards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said: Looking at those top defensive teams, 2 are near the bottom of the overall standings in the league because they have no offence, 2 are mediocre teams fighting to stay in the playoff hunt/spot. And one is doing well because they have a good offence to go with their defence. Looking at the top of the standings, the top 3 teams are their because of their high scoring high powered offences, and not because of their defences. They win because they can keep outscoring their opponents no matter what happens with the defence. You win games by outscoring your opponent, not by having more turnovers or sacks, or giving up little yards. Absolutely positively true. ...but again, it does not make me wish our defense was worse. It just makes me wish our offense was better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeKayAdams Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 9 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: The Rams / Saints / Chiefs would hang 40+ on our “good D”. Any high ranking has more to do with who we’ve played and teams knowing they can turn it off when they get 22 points than our D actually being good. Maybe? Probably? But find me another Tre White and another Jerry Hughes to start on this defense, and I don't think that would be the case. I'm looking forward to seeing what Beane and McDermott can do this off-season to make that happen. And of course, no one is doubting the importance of building an offense that is much better than the worst in modern NFL history. We will need to score more than 10 points a game in order to win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 5 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: The Packers and Pats were never threatened by us. forget the offensive woes... The D did its part. Tom Brady's streak of throwing a passing TD in each game ENDED. Sooooooooooo...... where are the guys giving me crud last week when I argued they were not the #1 but said because the Bills played one more game would come out on top??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 12 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: The Rams / Saints / Chiefs would hang 40+ on our “good D”. Any high ranking has more to do with who we’ve played and teams knowing they can turn it off when they get 22 points than our D actually being good. No Chuck. Football Outsiders adjusts both for your opponents and for how other teams have played against your opponents. That is, their #2 ranking means that they're second best in the league based on performance against common opponents. That's the whole point of what they do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoandfourteen Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 hours ago, MichaelAbdallah said: Maybe? Probably? But find me another Tre White and another Jerry Hughes to start on this defense, and I don't think that would be the case. I'm looking forward to seeing what Beane and McDermott can do this off-season to make that happen. And of course, no one is doubting the importance of building an offense that is much better than the worst in modern NFL history. We will need to score more than 10 points a game in order to win games. The problem is that Ol' School McD is looking to build an offense that scores 17 points a game and a defense that allows the opponent to score 13. That is a recipe for many, many blowout losses and 3-4 win seasons. Where the league is going, the offense will need to score at least 30 every week. Pair that with a defense that can weather the storm and hold the opposition to between 24-28. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 And that top defense has gotten us to a grand total of 3 wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: I hear him say it’s important to win up front and establish the line of scrimmage in your favor, but have never heard him say that he wishes only for an offense that maxes out at 17/game. Getting JA is about getting a QB who can hopefully toss it vertically at the drop of a dime and push it consistently. Mahomes would also probably agree that winning up front is nice, after enduring 2 strip sacks, a pick 6 and hurrying several other throws because of the pressure last night, which ended up being the difference in taking the L. When he did have time he was obviously basically unstoppable. McD would have to be an idiot not to know what this team desperately needs that all of us can see, when going shopping this offseason Paired with even an average offense we should be able to do some damage next year IMO ...balance across all three phases certainly lends some credence....I'd take offense, defense and ST's all in the top 12............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Neither team currently has a winning record. Stats are just massaging the books. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Shaw66 said: No Chuck. Football Outsiders adjusts both for your opponents and for how other teams have played against your opponents. That is, their #2 ranking means that they're second best in the league based on performance against common opponents. That's the whole point of what they do. Way to put him in his place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 8 hours ago, apuszczalowski said: Looking at those top defensive teams, 2 are near the bottom of the overall standings in the league because they have no offence, 2 are mediocre teams fighting to stay in the playoff hunt/spot. And one is doing well because they have a good offence to go with their defence. Looking at the top of the standings, the top 3 teams are their because of their high scoring high powered offences, and not because of their defences. They win because they can keep outscoring their opponents no matter what happens with the defence. You win games by outscoring your opponent, not by having more turnovers or sacks, or giving up little yards. Not true. Those three teams win games that way. Every other team has to worry about turnovers because it's still the stat that's most associated with winning and losing. You have to have a fantastic offense to be able to regularly overcome turnovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I think it's hilarious that "fans" are claiming that our defense isn't actually good. Why do you choose to live such miserable lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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