ChicagoRic Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 I'm constantly hearing that our wide receivers can't get separation. I know that speed is a factor but it can't be the only thing. Is it scheme? Is it coaching? Is it really just a lack of talent? Enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Coached? Certainly to a degree, but you also need actual talent, so there’s that. You can coach me till the cows come home, and I’m a dead man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 To me it’s strictly down to the quarterback, all 3 have missed wide open guys. I think Daboll has actually done a decent job scheming guys open as well, generally the quarterback never sees it or the pressure is on so fast they can’t get the ball out. There isn’t a lot of talent but still, plenty of times guys are running open. The games Allen played he could of put up really good numbers he just couldn’t make the reads and progressions fast enough and started getting happy feet wanting to run all the time (which is understandable) As a whole the group is bad, but if the quarterback play was better we wouldn’t be talking historically bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 As Augie notes, talent matters. but you can coach skills like crisp route running, throwing with anticipation, making good reads, and even have a coach with great play design and sequencing. But if its me throwing to augie... well... I guess honestly..... it’s probably not THAT much worse than peterman to benjamin. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Good route runners get separation. Route running can be taught (and therefore learned). But it's also a talent and ability the components of which some guys are blessed to have more of than others. It is a large part of the art of wide receiving, especially at the NFL level, and when it's done well it's nice to see. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellDopeland Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Another question- Can WR intelligence be coached? Every week we see Benjamin lining up on the wrong side of the formation, and we all remember Corey Coleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Smith Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Yes! We need to bring back Sanjay Lal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) Inside Leverage over the middle; outside leverage on the sideline; accelerating through cuts; crisp edges on cuts whether slants or outs and using your body (not hands) to gain a throwing window are all keys to a good separation WR. The Bills WR and TE crew as a whole are really lacking in game speed and technique. A good example is Croom's near TD. He had outside leverage but was more concerned with fending off the defender with his hand than getting this hand up for the catch. There's no excuse for this. He could have used his torso better to gain the edge and employed two hands on the catch. All this said another essential element of separation is anticipatory throws.....Bills have no QB right now who makes consistent anticipatory throws. Every NFL QB can make these throws sometimes but its doing it with Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady 80% consistency that's the key. The windows in the NFL are really small....they get even smaller if a QB can't make anticipatory throws. Edited November 1, 2018 by JoeF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, RussellDopeland said: Another question- Can WR intelligence be coached? Every week we see Benjamin lining up on the wrong side of the formation, and we all remember Corey Coleman. If nothing else, can we start scouting it better? Those two dudes are taking up like 12m this year and 2 draft picks probably Whaley’s fault 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 36 minutes ago, NoSaint said: As Augie notes, talent matters. but you can coach skills like crisp route running, throwing with anticipation, making good reads, and even have a coach with great play design and sequencing. But if its me throwing to augie... well... I guess honestly..... it’s probably not THAT much worse than peterman to benjamin. The only question there is.....who is the weak(est) link? But for the paycheck, are you in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Answer: Not by this staff... It's another regime of losers stealing all the money they can from the gullible, clueless, Pegulas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 any vet WR's out there we could sign, even if "washed up" who are good route runners who can mentor the other WR's? Perhaps Garcon in the offseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 (edited) Suddenness. Quick change of direction. Route-running. Pushing off in a way that won't get called. It all fits in. Plenty of it can be coached, but certainly not all of it. Edited November 1, 2018 by Thurman#1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 3 hours ago, ChicagoRic said: I'm constantly hearing that our wide receivers can't get separation. I know that speed is a factor but it can't be the only thing. Is it scheme? Is it coaching? Is it really just a lack of talent? Enlighten me. Of course it can. Speed is a factor but only one of many. Watch some old tape of stevie johnson. Jesus. What a question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Yes , it's technique and can be learned but like anything some are better at it than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 One of my personal bug bears..... the most important skill for a wide receiver in the NFL is route running. It can be coached and it can be improved but it requires talent too. From what I see the Bills lack talented route runners. It is why I would have been in on Demaryious Thomas. He was someone that came into the NFL raw as a route runner and improved massively once in the league. Not only would he improve the talent level of the room he would be a real lead by example type for guys to learn from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 3 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: Of course it can. Speed is a factor but only one of many. Watch some old tape of stevie johnson. Jesus. What a question SJ under Gailey is probably not a great example because Gailey taught "beat your man, get to the spot" rather than crisp route running. Stevie struggled when he moved to teams where the latter was expected. But the principle is sound, the WR ideally needs to "sell" the defender that he's running a different route than he actually is. Our guys are poor salesmen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 8 hours ago, ChicagoRic said: I'm constantly hearing that our wide receivers can't get separation. I know that speed is a factor but it can't be the only thing. Is it scheme? Is it coaching? Is it really just a lack of talent? Enlighten me. You can scheme all you want, but if they don’t run good routes or make clean cuts in routes they won’t get separation. If they are doing a straight go route that is all speed, but if it’s a double move you got to sell the short route first. Can it be taught? Yes but by the time they make the pros they should have it Down to a science I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: SJ under Gailey is probably not a great example because Gailey taught "beat your man, get to the spot" rather than crisp route running. Stevie struggled when he moved to teams where the latter was expected. But the principle is sound, the WR ideally needs to "sell" the defender that he's running a different route than he actually is. Our guys are poor salesmen. Agreed - the issue is once you sell - then speed helps increase the separation and we lack speed. KB is not going to get separation hardly ever - no matter how good the teaching is. He is to slow and deliberate, but he makes up for that with height (just needs hands). Zay has better body control and tends to get open on his breaks, but that requires a QB to trust that he is going to get open and get the ball to him. Shortly after that the defenders are back on him. Holmes actually seems has the best ability to get open, but he seems better on outbreaking routes and our QBs struggle with that route. The youngsters are all still learning and some plays are better than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: You can scheme all you want, but if they don’t run good routes or make clean cuts in routes they won’t get separation. If they are doing a straight go route that is all speed, but if it’s a double move you got to sell the short route first. Can it be taught? Yes but by the time they make the pros they should have it Down to a science I would think. I think you can improve in the pros and plenty do, but I agree scheme is pointless if people run bad routes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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