snafu Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said: I've read no end of articles decrying him as a strongman and dictator for a decade. He's no friend of democracy and it's been endlessly covered. That doesn't mean he's wrong on what happened here, and he's happy to benefit from calling out Saudi Arabia. Pretty easy for SA to refute his claims. SA says Khashoggi entered the embassy and also says he left. That story is easy to prove. Probably their cameras were out though and they can't find the footage. The fallout is that it looks very bad (again) for us to be aligned with such states. All we do is move these slimey pieces around the chess board in the hopes that one of these countries isn't a !@#$ing nightmare. Trump (Kushner) is just the latest guy to play the game. So a month or so after Turkey, Iran and Russia met in Tehran to discuss what to do in Syria (to end the mess that those three exacerbated), this episode with Erdogan is meant to make the US look bad for being cozy with SA? Who should the US be cozy with in the present situation in the Middle East, Turkey, Iran and Russia? Yes, sometimes our "friends" are friends of convenience, only. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, snafu said: So a month or so after Turkey, Iran and Russia met in Tehran to discuss what to do in Syria (to end the mess that those three exacerbated), this episode with Erdogan is meant to make the US look bad for being cozy with SA? Who should the US be cozy with in the present situation in the Middle East, Turkey, Iran and Russia? Yes, sometimes our "friends" are friends of convenience, only. I will never forgive FDR for teaming up with Stalin in WW11. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Disingenuous, and promoting a gross mischaracterization of how geo-politics works. KSA isn't the power player in the world, or in this relationship. We are. 1 Maybe that's why I said the US was moving the chess pieces. Try reading. Quote We haven't aligned with their interests, but rather they have aligned with ours to the extent that they've begun along the long road of recognizing religious freedoms and the rights of women, That's funny. Try reading this thread just a few up. Maybe if she's spared her head on October 28, she can tell you how great things are for women in SA. Quote purging out a massive amount of bad actors within their own government Says every dictator ever. Quote With that said, these nations are their own sovereign entities. We don't control them. Is your argument here that if KSA did sanction the killing of one of their own citizens acting as a journalist, that we should go to war with them? Yeah, Jeffe. Please jump to conclusions. I did say we should launch a war. What a reactionary moron you turned out to be. Quote That we should suspend diplomatic relations, and abandon the larger pursuit of human freedom in the world and domestically? What's your end game here? What the !@#$ kind of crazy nonsense is this? You're dumber than the guy who "liked" your post, and that's hard to do. Are you also a believer in anti-gravity technology that the US is hiding? Or are you a smidge smarter than Storytime Greggy who gets sucked into any crazy thing he hears? SA is the enemy of our enemy. So on the geopolitical board, it's who we occasionally align with. Nothing more. This latest issue is bigger because we cozied up to MBS pretty tightly of late. Edited October 12, 2018 by Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 38 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said: Or are you a smidge smarter than Storytime Greggy who gets sucked into any crazy thing he hears? Hilariously ironic considering you're blindly parroting Erdogan and AQ sympathizers (who want to split the GCC and US who are destroying AQ/ISIS throughout the ME) without stopping to think beyond the headline. Again, not everything is as it seems. EVER. It's a (dis)information war. Who were the targets in the 11/2 purge? Extremists with jihadist and intelligence ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Nothing fishy here - or connected to the larger events discussed in the Deep State thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Hilariously ironic considering you're blindly parroting Erdogan and AQ sympathizers (who want to split the GCC and US who are destroying AQ/ISIS throughout the ME) without stopping to think beyond the headline. Again, not everything is as it seems. EVER. It's a (dis)information war. Who were the targets in the 11/2 purge? Extremists with jihadist and intelligence ties. Hey Storytime Greggy: Got any new stuff lately? How many times have I said that the KSA can get out of this easily by showing their footage. If they do, this goes away. Go interpret Q's dingleberries and find the meaning of (your) life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Just now, Benjamin Franklin said: Hey Storytime Greggy: Got any new stuff lately? How many times have I said that the KSA can get out of this easily by showing their footage. If they do, this goes away. Go interpret Q's dingleberries and find the meaning of (your) life. I'm good, thanks. Clearly I've lived rent free in your head for the past months while you were hiding behind other screen names. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Benjamin Franklin said: Hey Storytime Greggy: Got any new stuff lately? How many times have I said that the KSA can get out of this easily by showing their footage. If they do, this goes away. Go interpret Q's dingleberries and find the meaning of (your) life. Ultimately, your argument comes down to nothing more than you choosing to believe Erdogan over the Saudis. As evidenced by your insistence that the Saudis should prove Erdogan wrong, when Erdogan's made nothing more than an accusation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said: Maybe that's why I said the US was moving the chess pieces. Try reading. What you said was that "we were aligned with those states". Try writing. That's funny. Try reading this thread just a few up. Maybe if she's spared her head on October 28, she can tell you how great things are for women in SA. Again, incredibly disingenuous, but that's what your reputation here has always been, so I'm not at all surprised. The protection of human rights is always relative in discussion. Go ahead and make the argument that KSA isn't making progress on that front, and I'll tear it to shreds. No one is holding them up as a shining example of human freedom, but they are making major strides in that direction since President Trump has taken office. Christians are being allowed to openly worship, and women's rights are progressing as well. Are you making the argument that one of the world's most oppressive regime should, overnight, transform into a Westernized liberal democracy? Or are you making the argument that they haven't made progress until they have done so? Yeah, Jeffe. Please jump to conclusions. I did say we should launch a war. What a reactionary moron you turned out to be. What the !@#$ kind of crazy nonsense is this? You're dumber than the guy who "liked" your post, and that's hard to do. Are you also a believer in anti-gravity technology that the US is hiding? Or are you a smidge smarter than Storytime Greggy who gets sucked into any crazy thing he hears? That's adorable. Look at all the faux outrage you've managed to muster over being called out on your nonsense. You've decided to malign the sitting administration (and prior, essentially equating them) over the current situation on Turkey (but tied to the existence of relationships with oppressive nations), but haven't offered what the alternatives should be, leaving it open to the interpretation of the reader. I asked you what you think the alternative should be: Ceasing diplomatic relations? War? And all you can do is fire off another half-assed, spittle inducing diatribe. Why don't you settle your intellectually dishonest ass down, and attempt to be better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: What you said was that "we were aligned with those states". Try writing. Again, incredibly disingenuous, but that's what your reputation here has always been, so I'm not at all surprised. The protection of human rights is always relative in discussion. Go ahead and make the argument that KSA isn't making progress on that front, and I'll tear it to shreds. No one is holding them up as a shining example of human freedom, but they are making major strides in that direction since President Trump has taken office. Christians are being allowed to openly worship, and women's rights are progressing as well. Are you making the argument that one of the world's most oppressive regime should, overnight, transform into a Westernized liberal democracy? Or are you making the argument that they haven't made progress until they have done so? That's adorable. Look at all the faux outrage you've managed to muster over being called out on your nonsense. You've decided to malign the sitting administration (and prior, essentially equating them) over the current situation on Turkey (but tied to the existence of relationships with oppressive nations), but haven't offered what the alternatives should be, leaving it open to the interpretation of the reader. I asked you what you think the alternative should be: Ceasing diplomatic relations? War? And all you can do is fire off another half-assed, spittle inducing diatribe. Why don't you settle your intellectually dishonest ass down, and attempt to be better. I like that you and Greggy get into this little 69 session liking each other's posts. It's cute boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Egg Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Yeah, it's a shame still about Lady Diana..... .....Trump was probably in on her being rid of too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 25 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Ultimately, your argument comes down to nothing more than you choosing to believe Erdogan over the Saudis. As evidenced by your insistence that the Saudis should prove Erdogan wrong, when Erdogan's made nothing more than an accusation. I don't believe either side yet. But he went in. If he came out, we should know shortly. I do like the Dexter angle from a color perspective. It's the kind of thing Storytime Greggy usually embraces. Pizzagate right Storytime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said: I like that you and Greggy get into this little 69 session liking each other's posts. It's cute boys. I have a respect for honest arbiters, whether I agree with them or not. Any chance you've finished with your spittle rag, and are ready to become one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said: I don't believe either side yet. Yet, you titled the thread: "House of Saud at it again". You can't even be honest about the stuff you write, let alone the stuff you read (and misunderstand). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 41 minutes ago, Benjamin Franklin said: I don't believe either side yet. But he went in. If he came out, we should know shortly. I do like the Dexter angle from a color perspective. It's the kind of thing Storytime Greggy usually embraces. Pizzagate right Storytime? Someone dropped him off and waited for him. He didn't leave. What else are we waiting to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 On 10/11/2018 at 3:40 PM, The_Dude said: Quote Donald Trump Jr. on Friday promoted a smear tying Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi to Osama bin Laden, retweeting a series of tweets meant to imply that the Saudi commentator, who has been missing since last week, supported Islamic terrorism. With President Trump apparently reluctant to punish Saudi Arabia over Khashoggi’s alleged murder after he entered the Saudi embassy in Istanbul, conservative pundits have been straining to provide excuses for U.S. inaction. Much of that effort has focused on claiming Khashoggi was a terrorist sympathizer, based on his ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and career covering terrorist groups and leaders, including Bin Laden. https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-jr-boosts-smear-tying-missing-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-to-islamic-terrorism?ref=home Business interests are business interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I didn’t realize until yesterday that Jamal Khashoggi was the author of this notorious 1988 Arab News article of him tooling around Afghanistan with Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda co-founder Abdullah Azzam. He’s just a democrat reformer journalist holding a RPG with jihadists. pic.twitter.com/G7xTCjwiPx — Patrick Poole (@pspoole) October 12, 2018 It's helpful to read the thread you are posting in. 2 hours ago, Benjamin Franklin said: I like that you and Greggy get into this little 69 session liking each other's posts. It's cute boys. One would hope that your months away would have been spent at an asswhole rehab facility rather than working on your masters at asswholery. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-jr-boosts-smear-tying-missing-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-to-islamic-terrorism?ref=home Business interests are business interests. I am not a Trump supporter. However, Trump has a veiled Muslim containment strategy and he’s 100% right for it. And even with Trump, in my neck of the woods they keep showing up and I’m not too keen on that. Once they hit 5% of the population, god, err, I mean, Allah (peace be upon him) help us all. Edited October 12, 2018 by The_Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I remember when ol' Ben would tell us it's alright if he's intolerant of homophobes and racists because anyone who was that wrong didn't deserve tolerance. I wonder if now that he's back he can regale us with stories from his time at the Charlottesville rally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Why would Qatar, AQ, Iran, and cabal connected journalists who are proven mouthpieces for John Brennan's/Kerry's/44's IC want to throw a wrench in the US/Saudi alliance? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2018/oct/12/trump-khashoggi-case-will-not-stop-110bn-us-saudi-arms-trade-video The GCC and others (including the US) have been routing AQ, ISIS, and their financing/training networks for almost three years now. There's MUCH more to this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Lots of talk from the Turks about recorded audio from his Apple Watch. But, there's a problem: They think you're stupid, BF. (click for full thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 @Benjamin Franklin should have known he was in deep **** on page one when gator started agreeing with him. Always a bad sign. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Worth the click to read the whole thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Saudi Arabia: Any US sanctions over Khashoggi would 'stab its own economy to death' https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/14/middleeast/khashoggi-turkey-saudi-intl/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/10/14/1650210/silicon-valleys-saudi-arabia-problem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Rogue elements inside the embassy killed him by mistake? M'kay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, GG said: Rogue elements inside the embassy killed him by mistake? M'kay Remember the House of Saud is not unified and has been fighting its own internal war for over a year now. Could easily be rogue operators working to undermine MBS on behalf of another faction. Or, more likely, Iranians dumping it on MSB's door because he's an existential threat to Islamic fascism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: Remember the House of Saud is not unified and has been fighting its own internal war for over a year now. Could easily be rogue operators working to undermine MBS on behalf of another faction. Or, more likely, Iranians dumping it on MSB's door because he's an existential threat to Islamic fascism. That's a possibility, but why did it take so long for them to come up with this story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 Screen writers’ slowdown? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, GG said: That's a possibility, but why did it take so long for them to come up with this story Don't know, which is why it's right to be suspicious of that story. There was a great scene in an otherwise forgettable adaptation of Sum of All Fears. Russia launches a chemical attack on Grozny, and Jack Ryan is convinced that the new Russian president didn't order the attack. The next beat, the Russian president goes on TV and takes credit for the attack before the whole world. The next scene they cut to the president in the elevator after the speech saying he didn't order the attack but it's better to look in control and strong - even if that means looking guilty - than to look as if he has no control over his military. If - and it is just that, an if - this wasn't done by MBS, he might have to take responsibility to avoid looking vulnerable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 16 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Don't know, which is why it's right to be suspicious of that story. There was a great scene in an otherwise forgettable adaptation of Sum of All Fears. Russia launches a chemical attack on Grozny, and Jack Ryan is convinced that the new Russian president didn't order the attack. The next beat, the Russian president goes on TV and takes credit for the attack before the whole world. The next scene they cut to the president in the elevator after the speech saying he didn't order the attack but it's better to look in control and strong - even if that means looking guilty - than to look as if he has no control over his military. If - and it is just that, an if - this wasn't done by MBS, he might have to take responsibility to avoid looking vulnerable. Counterpoint: you just used a Ben Affleck character as a primary source. You're an idiot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 26 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Counterpoint: you just used a Ben Affleck character as a primary source. You're an idiot. Me right now: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 A “journalist “ killed? I’m not losing any sleep over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 50 minutes ago, joesixpack said: A “journalist “ killed? I’m not losing any sleep over it. Watch the whole chess board, Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Watch the whole chess board, Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Breaking: CNN Reports Saudis Preparing to Admit Jamal Khashoggi Was Killed in ‘Interrogation Gone Wrong’Mediaite, by Aidan McLaughlin Original Article I am interested to see if an actual News organization verifies this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 44 minutes ago, B-Man said: Breaking: CNN Reports Saudis Preparing to Admit Jamal Khashoggi Was Killed in ‘Interrogation Gone Wrong’Mediaite, by Aidan McLaughlin Original Article I am interested to see if an actual News organization verifies this They're parroting yesterday's WSJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 10 hours ago, joesixpack said: A “journalist “ killed? I’m not losing any sleep over it. Most Trump supporters are probably saying the same thing. But if our foreign policy has no moral basis anymore, what's the point of shoveling gobs and gobs of money into the military now? What's the point? What are we defending if its not the Democratic order in the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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