highest percentage of passes dropped -

[Royale with Cheese]

There is not a thread that’s safe from one particular person ruining it.  Not one thread.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

How objective is it to list Foster's weaknesses, but not his strengths?

 

If my assessment is so far off, why is he in the roster? Are the Bills' coaches Alabama homers too?

 

 

 

...ignorance is bliss and you take the cake.....you solidified your place as someone never to be taken seriously in posts or debates......quite frankly, it is a blessing versus a loss....SMH.............

[Foxx]

28 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Build the offensive line in FA next year.

Get a playmaker WR priority #1 in the draft.

Give Allen the tools he needs and we could be looking at something special for the future.

the only issue i see with this is that WR's rarely come out and are much good their first year. unless there is a consensus can't miss, i would think that we may have to at least target maybe a couple #2 WRs in FA to help get the ball rolling.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

the only issue i see with this is that WR's rarely come out and are much good their first year. unless there is a consensus can't miss, i would think that we may have to at least target maybe a couple #2 WRs in FA to help get the ball rolling.

 

I agree.  At least one solid FA at WR.

[snamsnoops]

58 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

Allen wasn’t even taking first team snaps in preseason. It will take some time to develop chemistry with his receivers.

 

No patience here.

Foster and Allen both 3rd team in the spring training into training camp. That combo may have some of the most experience together.....

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I agree.  At least one solid FA at WR.

i hope that by the end of the year, at least one of our young receivers will establish some real chemisty with Allen, thereby making what we have to do next off-season a bit less murkey.

[Sky Diver]

1 minute ago, snamsnoops said:

Foster and Allen both 3rd team in the spring training into training camp. That combo may have some of the most experience together.....

 

Who do you think gets more reps, first teamers or third teamers?

[snamsnoops]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

 

Who do you think gets more reps, first teamers or third teamers?

That wouldn't matter in this situation. We are talking the connection between Allen and Foster, who both were 3rd string.

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Foxx said:

the only issue i see with this is that WR's rarely come out and are much good their first year. unless there is a consensus can't miss, i would think that we may have to at least target maybe a couple #2 WRs in FA to help get the ball rolling.

 

That is exactly what I think Beane will have to do.

There are a few FA targets that would grade out as #2s he should go after.

Maybe even overpaying for a good older guy on a shorter contract who is able and willing to help the young guys out.

KB sure isn't helping the young guys.

 

 

 

[Sky Diver]

2 minutes ago, snamsnoops said:

That wouldn't matter in this situation. We are talking the connection between Allen and Foster, who both were 3rd string.

 

So, you have two rookies who are in their third game who have had limited reps. Maybe you need to temper the expectations a bit.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

It's hard to judge for sure.  Same as if a defender makes a hell of a play to rake the ball out.  Do you call that a drop or a great defensive play?  Not really asking just kind of saying two people could see it either way.

 

Defender making a hell of a play, to my understanding ESPN is unambiguous that's not a drop.  As I understand it if the guy has to leave his feet and jump or dive, they also don't score that as a drop either.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Who do you think gets more reps, first teamers or third teamers?

 

I find it funny you didn't reply to my post to you.

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

That is exactly what I think Beane will have to do.

There are a few FA targets that would grade out as #2s he should go after.

Maybe even overpaying for a good older guy on a shorter contract who is able and willing to help the young guys out.

KB sure isn't helping the young guys.

 

 

 

i have no idea of who might be available this off-season but with the cap room we will have, i'm sure that will be at the top of McBean's list. if KB keeps playing like he has, he will not be on a roster next year, he needs to step up if he wants a second contract at all, from anyone.

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Defender making a hell of a play, to my understanding ESPN is unambiguous that's not a drop.  As I understand it if the guy has to leave his feet and jump or dive, they also don't score that as a drop either.

I find both of those fair assessments.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

56 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

Do you think the Bills' coaches cared what college he went to when they put him on the roster?

 

I do, actually.  Last year's WR coach is said to have stumped for Zay Jones 'cuz he coached him, I think it's reasonable to assume that Daboll might put in a word for an UDFA with whom he was personally familiar.  Meaning no aspersion thereby, scouting on UDFA is limited so why wouldn't a coach weigh in on a guy he knows?

 

10 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I find both of those fair assessments.

 

Eh.  It's a pretty routine in the NFL for a tall WR to go up for a ball that's over his head.  WR also work very hard on their grip and arm strength because it's pretty routine they need to out-play DB for contested balls. 

 

I understand why ESPN does it that way, my points are it means ESPN's "drops" are a subset of balls most football-knowledgeable guys (former players, coaches etc, not just Charlie Couch Potato) would expect a WR to handle.

[Sky Diver]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I do, actually.  Last year's WR coach is said to have stumped for Zay Jones 'cuz he coached him, I think it's reasonable to assume that Daboll might put in a word for an UDFA with whom he was personally familiar.

 

I don’t think a NFL coach who cares about his career would put a player on a roster just because of a college loyalty. I believe that Foster is on the team because of his demonstrated potential.

 

His signing with the Bills as a UDFA MAY have had something to do with Daboll. He certainly was on other teams’ radar.

[ColoradoBills]

Just now, Foxx said:

i have no idea of who might be available this off-season but with the cap room we will have, i'm sure that will be at the top of McBean's list. if KB keeps playing like he has, he will not be on a roster next year, he needs to step up if he wants a second contract at all, from anyone.

 

It's not a great list but there are a few guys Beane might be able to steal from their current teams by overpaying a little.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/wide-receiver/

 

[Sky Diver]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It's not a great list but there are a few guys Beane might be able to steal from their current teams by overpaying a little.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/wide-receiver/

 

 

That’s a pretty underwhelming list.

[Foxx]

5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It's not a great list but there are a few guys Beane might be able to steal from their current teams by overpaying a little.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/wide-receiver/

 

your right, the list is not overwhelming at all. Cobb will command too much money, Fitzgerald is on the backside of his career and most likely would want to go to a team that has the opportunity to win now. of the rest, i'm thinking i would take a stab at Kearse. i also wouldn't mind seeing 7-11 back in the slot but i doubt TB12 will let him leave.

[JaCrispy]

21 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

We clearly have the worst wr group in the NFL trying to catch balls from a qb who's velocity is nearly 70mph.  What could possibly go wrong. 

Normally I would agree but the passes dropped dont seem to have been thrown particularly fast imo.

[The Wiz]

33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Eh.  It's a pretty routine in the NFL for a tall WR to go up for a ball that's over his head.  WR also work very hard on their grip and arm strength because it's pretty routine they need to out-play DB for contested balls. 

 

I understand why ESPN does it that way, my points are it means ESPN's "drops" are a subset of balls most football-knowledgeable guys (former players, coaches etc, not just Charlie Couch Potato) would expect a WR to handle.

I'd say if they came down with the ball and then dropped it, I would call it a drop.  If they never had control of it while coming down I would probably let it go.

[Doc]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

There's an interesting meta-issue behind that "average completion" number.

 

Last year the league average (of the 32 QB with the highest number of passing attempts) was under 63%, 62.7 to be exact.  This year, it's currently running higher, at 65%. 

 

Is it going to stay higher because of the new QB hit penalties, or will there be some "regression to the mean" as the season wears on?

 

As far as Allen, he's gone from 40% to 54% to 68% completions over the last 3 games, so I think it's probably fair to say there's been more to it than drops.  Learning to take what the D is giving him and get the ball out quickly instead of going for the game-changer on every throw is part of it.   Not having to play against the clock and throw his way out of a deficit is likely part of it too.

 

Seven drops gets him to league average.  Even better.

 

4 hours ago, The Wiz said:

From the Vikings game I could count 3 although some would argue Foster's drop as a tough catch vs a drop.

 

I think there were 2 drops in the LA game. 

 

Don't remember much of the Baltimore game since I didn't really watch much after the first half.

 

I counted 4 for sure (2 by KB, 1 by Clay and that long one by Ford) against the Vikes.   I would argue that Holmes' sideline grab where he went crazy-leg should be counted as one.  And then there is the shovel pass to McCloud that was ruled a fumble, but it wasn't counted as a pass so it doesn't enter in the equation.

 

I think there were at least 2 against the Chargers but there may have been more.  And I don't remember how many against the Ravens.

[IgotBILLStopay]

22 hours ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/9/27/17911480/the-bills-have-the-highest-percentage-of-passes-dropped

 

Does anyone know what the heck is going on?

 

Holy freakin: CRAP!!!

 

I really don't understand the K.Benjamin  thing and probably never will...

 

 

 

 

That said, looking at overall team records, this statistic (% drops) does not appear to be significantly negatively correlated with wins - so .. umm .. I take it with a grain of salt.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

I don’t think a NFL coach who cares about his career would put a player on a roster just because of a college loyalty. I believe that Foster is on the team because of his demonstrated potential.

 

Just because, no.  I do think Foster wound up on the roster because he happened to go to college where Daboll was OC.

I think there are other guys of demonstrated potential, maybe greater demonstrated potential, but they didn't happen to attend college where our new OC coached last year so we went with the "devil he knew"

 

I think nepotism played a role in a couple of choices we made this year at the low end of the roster.  Austin Proehl would be another example - currently not on a roster.  It's not necessarily a problem, though one would like to see a wider net cast for talent even at the lower end.

1 minute ago, Doc said:

I would argue that Holmes' sideline grab where he went crazy-leg should be counted as one

 

That would never be counted as a drop by an ESPN scorer.

[ColoradoBills]

13 minutes ago, Foxx said:

your right, the list is not overwhelming at all. Cobb will command too much money, Fitzgerald is on the backside of his career and most likely would want to go to a team that has the opportunity to win now. of the rest, i'm thinking i would take a stab at Kearse. i also wouldn't mind seeing 7-11 back in the slot but i doubt TB12 will let him leave.

 

There usually a lot less high quality players available in free agency than most people think.

Click on the link I provided and go back in history to see who was available the last 3 years or so.

Check out some other Bills needs positions too.

 

Too early to tell but there seems to be more Defensive FAs Bills could use for starter/depth than offensive.

What's available in FA will also determine the draft.

There is some TEs, RBs and maybe a RT worth FA $'s.

 

It's going to be a lot harder spending the FA money the Bills have than most people will think.

Overspending on a Cobb or even a Golden Tate might be needed.

 

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

There usually a lot less high quality players available in free agency than most people think.

Click on the link I provided and go back in history to see who was available the last 3 years or so.

Check out some other Bills needs positions too.

 

Too early to tell but there seems to be more Defensive FAs Bills could use for starter/depth than offensive.

What's available in FA will also determine the draft.

There is some TEs, RBs and maybe a RT worth FA $'s.

 

It's going to be a lot harder spending the FA money the Bills have than most people will think.

Overspending on a Cobb or even a Golden Tate might be needed.

 

Just give Allen his 10 year 180m contract next spring and problem solved.

Edited September 29, 2018 by The Wiz

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Just give Allen his 10 year 180m contract next spring and problem solved.

 

I believe the CBA prohibits that

[The Wiz]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I believe the CBA prohibits that

 

Did not know that.  Is it a rookie contract thing or something related to the cap?

[ColoradoBills]

Just now, The Wiz said:

 

Did not know that.  Is it a rookie contract thing or something related to the cap?

 

A rookie contract cannot be extended until after the 3rd season is completed.

[Doc]

28 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

That would never be counted as a drop by an ESPN scorer.

 

I know.  Just saying.

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

A rookie contract cannot be extended until after the 3rd season is completed.

Is there reasoning behind that.  That's all I can find is that wording without real explanation.

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Is there reasoning behind that.  That's all I can find is that wording without real explanation.

 

As Hap said it's part of the last CBA.  The rookie contract stuff before was a mess.

This is mainly for the teams protection.

If the Bills really want to keep Allen they can extend his contract after 3 but in essence a drafting team owns the

player for 4 years.

It's linked into the UFA eligibility after 4 year rule too. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by ColoradoBills

[The Wiz]

8 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

As Hap said it's part of the last CBA.  The rookie contract stuff before was a mess.

This is mainly for the teams protection.

If the Bills really want to keep Allen they can extend his contract after 3 but in essence a drafting team owns the

player for 4 years.

It's linked into the UFA eligibility after 4 year rule too. 

Yea I remember how bad the rookie contract were in the past.  Just was curious.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, The Wiz said:

 

Did not know that.  Is it a rookie contract thing or something related to the cap?

 

Rookie contract.

[Cripple Creek]

I’m Hopeful that they give the kid Foster a long look tomorrow.  He’s an UDFA and he knows the mind of OC Dabol. I’m confident that he can give the team just the offensive spark it needs.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Foster has elite speed and he’s able to get off the line of scrimmage. His ability to separate has been impressive.

 

I guess you need to have patience and lower your expectations for a first year player.

So what if he has great speed.  He is a good athlete.  That doesn't make him a good receiver.  The guy has no experience playing the position as he barely had any work in college either.  Are we suppose to keep this guy around and hope he gets it in his 5th season?  There are a lot of negatives on his game in every draft report I have read.  Great speed doesn't always equal even good receiver.  There are a lot of track stars out there.  There is a reason they don't play in the NFL.

3 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Do you think the Bills' coaches cared what college he went to when they put him on the roster?

 

Do you think they will care when he will be lucky to make our practice squad next season?  If the guy don't produce he will be gone.  Its not looking like he is going to produce.  Just as Zay has not produced.  The difference is we have invested in Zay and honestly I am sure he is on the hot seat too.  If we had any semblance of a receiving core the dude would not be on our team at all.  Personally I think they cut better players because of speed.  Speed is only good if you can catch the damn ball.

[Dr.Sack]

If they are dropping passes that’s better than passes airmailed to the defense. Bottom line get some stickum or new receivers willing to catch the ball & don’t short arm bracing for contact. Be brave WRs!

[MDH]

3 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...no but you sure as hell do with obnoxious subjectivity.....I'm just wasting time and valuable bandwidth for others who choose to OBJECTIVELY discuss/debate....

 

You think you’ve found objectivity on a Bills’ board?

 

It’s just a different team they can’t see clearly...

[Sky Diver]

You don’t judge a rookie WR after 3 games.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Sky Diver

[The Wiz]

6 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

You don’t judge a rookie WR after 3 games.

Every player is under the microscope during every play.  So no you don't just them after 3 games.  You judge them by what they are doing during the plays they do or don't make.