ctk232 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, SoTier said: I disagree that the FO ever intended to sit Allen. The absolute ONLY reason to trade Taylor before the draft and McCarron before the beginning of the regular season when the only QB on the roster not named Allen is Nathan Peterman is to make sure that Allen has to start early in the season. It's absolutely the only reason why Peterman is still on the roster instead of some veteran QB. Why would they do that? To put butts in the seats might be one reason. To cover the FO's collective butts if Allen busts seems a more likely one because they can always claim that Allen might have been better if he'd had more time to sit and learn but "circumstances" forced their hands. That seems to me more conspiratorial than logical. I believe Beane even admitted that they thought AJ was someone he wasn't, and that the plan was likely to show Peterman the door. But based upon offseason performance, Peterman just played better. We're speculating entirely as to the FO's true intention, but there was no debating the fact that this kid is more of a project than a day one starter. Anyone could see that Allen wouldn't be our day one starter from scouting - he was/is just the best option we had/have on the roster. Things happened and now he is QB1 due to a deplorable first game. It's speculation, but we can make an educated guess to say it is likely the FO never intended Allen to start this year, or if so, at least not this soon. There are much more productive, planned progressions of welcoming a rookie into their first game that teams take - this was not one of them as we had to respond to something pretty abhorrent in our first week, following an entire offseason of limited first team reps for Allen. I still think our Week 1 loss has just as much blame on the Defensive side of the ball, which carried into our first half of week 2. There's no going back from this either way, and we are where we are. Edited September 19, 2018 by ctk232 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 6 hours ago, Midwest1981 said: "Utterly dreadful" and "brutally bad in a myriad of ways" isn't quite how I'd characterize it. But I have to admit- I was more discouraged than encouraged. "It's his first start," "he had a few good plays," etc. I know those things- IMO it was still discouraging to see him miss on some blatantly open throws (Murphy & DiMarco, famoulsy) and to force those picks in the second-half (especially the first one- I was imploring him to throw it away as he released it)... Ledyard correctly mentions "there's a long way to go"- and I still think Allen's relentlessly competitive nature gives him a chance, even with his pre-draft concerns rearing their ugly head again in start #1 (mechanical unsoundness, inconsistent accuracy, decision-making, etc.). Still, I was hoping week #1 offered a few more positives (there WERE some), even considering all factors like the Bills' under-talented roster, the opponent, his first NFL start, etc. https://twitter.com/LedyardNFLDraft/status/1041772507903262720 I thought he was better in Week 1 against the Ravens than he was on Sunday. That being said, I'm hopeful that he'll only get better this season. 47 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Allen looks below average right now, but he's a rookie with no experience and he has a lot to learn. At some point expectations will be greater than zero, however, and then he's going to have to perform. Where each fan sets the performance line remains to be seen. Tyrod had/has supporters up to the very end and even now. When should Allen be expected to perform better? Mid-season? By the end of this year? By the end of next year? When? What do you mean "better"? He should be better with each game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Honestly, a fair number of these "draft experts" are just chomping at the bit to prove themselves right. They go through the pre-draft process and pick apart every player bit by bit in ways that border on obsessive and then when said player makes a mistake that the analyst pointed out, it's like they can't wait to hit Twitter and start screaming, "See?! See everyone?!?! I'm right! I pointed out a thing and that thing came true!!!" It's a miracle they don't trip over their boners as they try to race to their computers. What's especially amusing is when one of these smug asshats gets served by the actual player they're evaluating. They'll tweet out a video of a play and say, "Player A does this when he should've done that, shows poor instincts!" And then Player A pops up in their mentions and says, "Are you in the huddle? Do you know the call? What you're saying is the exact opposite of my assignment on that play." And what did these numbnut writers expect? Allen was gonna go in there with a patchy OL, subpar receivers against a solid defense and come out 30 for 33 for 418 yards and 5 TDs? Experience and progress. That's the goal for Allen this season. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: His All-22 critique of Allen. 9-19: Jon Ledyard from The Draft Network with Schopp & the Bulldog (21:16) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) EJ debut > Josh allen debut Edited September 19, 2018 by C.Biscuit97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twist_to_open Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I'm sold after nearly a full game and a half already its abundantly clear Allen is not an NFL caliber QB, especially with all the talent around him that's going to waste. We need to end this experiment now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I watched the game. I saw guys open that Allen didn’t attempt to throw the ball too. NFL open is different than College open. Allen will only get better. I don’t need this guy to tell me what I know. I have watched football since I was 8. I played into college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, twist_to_open said: I'm sold after nearly a full game and a half already its abundantly clear Allen is not an NFL caliber QB, especially with all the talent around him that's going to waste. We need to end this experiment now! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Midwest1981 said: "Utterly dreadful" and "brutally bad in a myriad of ways" isn't quite how I'd characterize it. But I have to admit- I was more discouraged than encouraged. "It's his first start," "he had a few good plays," etc. I know those things- IMO it was still discouraging to see him miss on some blatantly open throws (Murphy & DiMarco, famoulsy) and to force those picks in the second-half (especially the first one- I was imploring him to throw it away as he released it)... Ledyard correctly mentions "there's a long way to go"- and I still think Allen's relentlessly competitive nature gives him a chance, even with his pre-draft concerns rearing their ugly head again in start #1 (mechanical unsoundness, inconsistent accuracy, decision-making, etc.). Still, I was hoping week #1 offered a few more positives (there WERE some), even considering all factors like the Bills' under-talented roster, the opponent, his first NFL start, etc. https://twitter.com/LedyardNFLDraft/status/1041772507903262720 ...LOL...."anyone who watched his performance knows I'm being 100% accurate".......and the lipstick on your twin cheeks is only your own maestro..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: EJ debut > Josh allen debut What's your metric for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, blacklabel said: Honestly, a fair number of these "draft experts" are just chomping at the bit to prove themselves right. They go through the pre-draft process and pick apart every player bit by bit in ways that border on obsessive and then when said player makes a mistake that the analyst pointed out, it's like they can't wait to hit Twitter and start screaming, "See?! See everyone?!?! I'm right! I pointed out a thing and that thing came true!!!" It's a miracle they don't trip over their boners as they try to race to their computers. What's especially amusing is when one of these smug asshats gets served by the actual player they're evaluating. They'll tweet out a video of a play and say, "Player A does this when he should've done that, shows poor instincts!" And then Player A pops up in their mentions and says, "Are you in the huddle? Do you know the call? What you're saying is the exact opposite of my assignment on that play." And what did these numbnut writers expect? Allen was gonna go in there with a patchy OL, subpar receivers against a solid defense and come out 30 for 33 for 418 yards and 5 TDs? Experience and progress. That's the goal for Allen this season. Well said....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: What's your metric for that? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00/gamelog/2013/ EJ had 2 tds, 0 ints, and left the field with the lead against the Pats. Allen’s stats (obviously not all on him) aren’t completely awful because of garbage time when the Chargers were just trying to catch their flight. that said, as awful as their development plan was with Allen, they can’t plug him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00/gamelog/2013/ EJ had 2 tds, 0 ints, and left the field with the lead against the Pats. Allen’s stats (obviously not all on him) aren’t completely awful because of garbage time when the Chargers were just trying to catch their flight. that said, as awful as their development plan was with Allen, they can’t plug him now. Why do ppl keep trying to say stuff like this to fit their narrative? Its an NFL game...it was not pre season.....the bills were close to making the score a 1 score game.....they were NOT just trying to catch their flight... If anything.....the Chargers are a west coast team and typically the time change in a game happens at the BEGINNING of a game and the team starts to aclimate as the game wears on......meaning they (in theory) should have been sharper in the SECOND half where the bills were trying to make a game of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) FWIW Edited September 19, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 7 hours ago, MJS said: What we're all the experts saying about Goff in year 1? How about RGIII? They're wrong just as often as they are right. They are wrong 2 to 3 times more than they are right. And even thats being conservative. Which is why when there is any sliver of hope they could be right, they go hard to prove it, such as they are with Allen. They were harsh critics going in, so now they see blood in the water to finally be right when they are so so so so often wrong. I could care less about these chicken heads, for every one fo these guys there are other people who know a hell of a lot more about football than them that think Josh has the potential to be a top tier QB in this league for a long time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 41 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Why do ppl keep trying to say stuff like this to fit their narrative? Its an NFL game...it was not pre season.....the bills were close to making the score a 1 score game.....they were NOT just trying to catch their flight... If anything.....the Chargers are a west coast team and typically the time change in a game happens at the BEGINNING of a game and the team starts to aclimate as the game wears on......meaning they (in theory) should have been sharper in the SECOND half where the bills were trying to make a game of it. Dude, it was garbage team. Shell defense, try to stop big plays, chew up the clock. It was how Blake Bortels was a top 5 franchise qb a few years ago. Garbage time. great news is he has a chance to prove himself this week against one of the best defenses in the nfl. but since I posed it, who had the better rookie start - EJ or Allen? Obviously, it means nothing going forward. Just a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Dude, it was garbage team. Shell defense, try to stop big plays, chew up the clock. It was how Blake Bortels was a top 5 franchise qb a few years ago. Garbage time. great news is he has a chance to prove himself this week against one of the best defenses in the nfl. but since I posed it, who had the better rookie start - EJ or Allen? Obviously, it means nothing going forward. Just a question. EJ had better stats I would also argue he had a better team around him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: Those rebiulds did not have a QB the talent of Josh Allen....I feel like he is different then all of those other QBs for a multitude of reasons When you have that on board.....the rebiuld has a much better chance of being successfull Did you believe that before or after the Bills drafted him? I didn’t want us to draft him so I’m not going to pretend I think he is some special talent now. that said, I wish he was sitting. I feel like that is his best chance for long term success and not playing with the worst offense in the nfl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Lol...Geez...this was his very first start as a professional. Not sure what people expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: EJ had better stats I would also argue he had a better team around him Fair enough. I don’t think the difference is that big between those teams (SJ=Benjamin, Woods and Zay both 2nd rounders, Clay > EJ’s TE, McCoy, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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