I just picked up a Buffalo radio station

[Ice bowl 67]

I noticed 96.1 playing Nothing's going to stop us now and now they are playing Its my life by No Doubt. I thought where is this from.  I thought that was strange that this station was overtaking our rock station and between songs they advertised for Buffalo and identified themselves as Mix 96! I looked it up and I am picking you guys up on FM! That's incredible.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Ice bowl 67

[Figster]

It might be the big guys way of telling you Buffalo is the place to be my friend.

 

You would make a good Bills fan If you think about it. ;  ) 

[Ice bowl 67]

I've picked up Hamilton Ontario before so I knew Buffalo wasn't out of the question.

[WhoTom]

Under certain atmospheric conditions, radio waves can travel hundreds of miles by bouncing off of the ionosphere and large bodies of water (like the Great Lakes.) When I lived in Western NY, the radio in my parents' car sometimes picked up WLS out of Chicago.

 

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by WhoTom

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, Ice bowl 67 said:

I noticed 96.1 playing Nothing's going to stop us now and now they are playing Its my life by No Doubt. I thought where is this from.  I thought that was strange that this station was overtaking our rock station and between songs they advertised for Buffalo and identified themselves as Mix 96! I looked it up and I am picking you guys up on FM! That's incredible.

There are thunderstorms, strong ones rolling through this side of Lake Michigan... G.Bay is just 2° further north than BFLo.

 

The atmospherics probably good along that front. Clear to North???

 

Also... FWIW... Did you know that where you are in Green Bay, even better if you are in Door County (Bayshore Blufflands)... That you may be on or near the Niagara Escarpment?  Yep, the same geological feature that creates Niagara Falls and impounds L.Michigan/Huron & Erie to the North.  So you are closer to Western New York than you really think! ?  

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Escarpment

 

 

Niagara Escarpment in WI:

 

 

So... You really are a Niagara-tonian after all!  So root for the Bills when they play the Packers!!... I know You rooted for them last night and will when they play the Bears again during the regular season!

 

??

[ExiledInIllinois]

36 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

Under certain atmospheric conditions, radio waves can travel hundreds of miles by bouncing off of the ionosphere and large bodies of water (like the Great Lakes.) When I lived in Western NY, the radio in my parents' car sometimes picked up WLS out of Chicago.

 

 

WLS is 50,000 watts and AM.  IceBowl in WI was picking up FM.  Which is impressive! Unless your parents were picking up 94.7 FM which is the FM sister station... Which is 4,500 watts...BUT is transmitted from the top of Sears Tower.

[boyst]

I pick up WGR 550 all the time just below Greensboro.  That's just about 500 miles straight line over the Appalachians.

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Boyst62 said:

I pick up WGR 550 all the time just below Greensboro.  That's just about 500 miles straight line over the Appalachians.

 

AM, due to its much lower frequency travels much further.

FM is generally line of sight, but sometimes with atmospheric bouncing it can go greater distances.

[boyst]

5 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

AM, due to its much lower frequency travels much further.

FM is generally line of sight, but sometimes with atmospheric bouncing it can go greater distances.

I get it.  But there is a station on FM only 80 miles away on 550 that is over powered.   And a station in Nashville about 350 miles away over the mtns that's still overpowered too.

 

It's a lot of sciency nerd stuff, anyway. ??‍♂️

[sherpa]

5 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

I get it.  But there is a station on FM only 80 miles away on 550 that is over powered.   And a station in Nashville about 350 miles away over the mtns that's still overpowered too.

 

It's a lot of sciency nerd stuff, anyway. ??‍♂️

 

I know.

Overnight reception can be strange because the FCC regulates wattage in order to reduce the effect of skywave propagation, which is much more prevalent at night.

That's why you'll get stations like WGR until about 7AM, and then a much closer 550 khz stations will ramp up at the same time the nightime skywave propagation diminishes, so they'll better service their listening area.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

WWKB 1520 am (once known as WKBW) is authorized for 50,000 watt transmitter power, and could be heard up and down the east coast from the Maritimes to the Carolinas.  Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, fundie preachers like Brother Stair and David Smith would buy half hour blocks of airtime, knowing their messages would get out to a potentially large audience, based upon station signal strength.

[bbb]

10 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

WLS is 50,000 watts and AM.  IceBowl in WI was picking up FM.  Which is impressive! Unless your parents were picking up 94.7 FM which is the FM sister station... Which is 4,500 watts...BUT is transmitted from the top of Sears Tower.

 

Yeah, I picked up the Bills on MNF in the Poconos from that Hamilton blowtorch.................It's crazy that he can pick up an FM station out of Buffalo. 

[Greybeard]

11 hours ago, WhoTom said:

Under certain atmospheric conditions, radio waves can travel hundreds of miles by bouncing off of the ionosphere and large bodies of water (like the Great Lakes.) When I lived in Western NY, the radio in my parents' car sometimes picked up WLS out of Chicago.

 

 

              In the 60's I would follow the Dodgers on a small transistor radio.  Could never get LA, but I could get their games when playing Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis.  I believe the station in St. Louis was KMOX.  The St. Louis broadcaster at the time was Harry Caray.  Today most people only remember him as the Cub announcer. 

            AM is good for this at night.  Not so much in the daytime.  No skip.   I also listened to WLS at night a lot in 65' and 66'.  They were a lot like WKBW but they had a time every night they would play oldies, and I liked that.  When I got to college I met a guy from NJ who listened to WKBW every night.  He wanted the record "Thing of the Past," by the local Buffalo band ,The Tweeds."  He couldn't find that 45 in NJ, so I picked it up for him.

11 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

Also... FWIW... Did you know that where you are in Green Bay, even better if you are in Door County (Bayshore Blufflands)... That you may be on or near the Niagara Escarpment?  Yep, the same geological feature that creates Niagara Falls and impounds L.Michigan/Huron & Erie to the North.  So you are closer to Western New York than you really think! ?  

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Escarpment

 

 

 

So... You really are a Niagara-tonian after all!  So root for the Bills when they play the Packers!!... I know You rooted for them last night and will when they play the Bears again during the regular season!

 

??

      About 7 to 10 years ago, I saw a documentary on the Niagara Escarpment on either the History channel or Discovery.  Up until then I thought it only existed in Lewiston.  The funny thing about the documentary was it spent almost no time on the portion in Lewiston.  Was interesting enough to generate an Internet search where I found this same map.  That was one mighty big glacier.

[row_33]

Does Toronto 96.3 classical reach Buffalo?

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

AM, due to its much lower frequency travels much further.

FM is generally line of sight, but sometimes with atmospheric bouncing it can go greater distances.

At work on good nights with our 75 foot vhf-fm antenna we will pick up USCG, Upper MS River Keokuk, Iowa... Which is just under 300 miles away.  Once in a while Detroit... And @ just over 500 miles BFLo USCG, once I heard!

 

That's far for FM....USCG can't be putting out the watts that much?  A normal consumer product puts out 25w or 1w...  What the USCG is putting out is a lot more... But not like 50,000 watt AM station. 

56 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

              In the 60's I would follow the Dodgers on a small transistor radio.  Could never get LA, but I could get their games when playing Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and St. Louis.  I believe the station in St. Louis was KMOX.  The St. Louis broadcaster at the time was Harry Caray.  Today most people only remember him as the Cub announcer. 

            AM is good for this at night.  Not so much in the daytime.  No skip.   I also listened to WLS at night a lot in 65' and 66'.  They were a lot like WKBW but they had a time every night they would play oldies, and I liked that.  When I got to college I met a guy from NJ who listened to WKBW every night.  He wanted the record "Thing of the Past," by the local Buffalo band ,The Tweeds."  He couldn't find that 45 in NJ, so I picked it up for him.

      About 7 to 10 years ago, I saw a documentary on the Niagara Escarpment on either the History channel or Discovery.  Up until then I thought it only existed in Lewiston.  The funny thing about the documentary was it spent almost no time on the portion in Lewiston.  Was interesting enough to generate an Internet search where I found this same map.  That was one mighty big glacier.

With a coiled AM antenna, workers in Alaska could pick up stations in Lower 48.

 

Didn't they sell a coil AM antenna @ one y time and market the Alaska thingy about workers picking up Lower 48 AM stations?

 

AM you could probably coil all around your house and probably bring in impressive distances.

 

I think PTR is into the radio stuff and knows how true this may be?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

52 minutes ago, row_33 said:

Does Toronto 96.3 classical reach Buffalo?

 

 

Once you climb the Niagara Escarpment, you lose Moses' highbrow offerings.  ?

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Oh... Greybeard... On the escarpment thing.  There are two more that impound Lake Erie.  One you see running along the Kensington Expressway/the 33 and on Main Street/Route 5.  The other in the Boston (New York) Hills.

 

New York "steps" down with the 3 encampments... Or "steps" up depending how You look @ it.  I wonder if geological formations have anything to do with how radio waves "bounce" and carry?

 

Onondaga Formation: How L.Erie (& Finger Lakes) is impounded...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onondaga_Limestone

 

 

Portage Escarpment:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage_Escarpment

 

 

 

 

G.Bay is really not thAAt far from Buffalo as the "crow flies" and is "funneled" and is inter-connected geologically.

Edited September 1, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[Misterbluesky]

8 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

I pick up WGR 550 all the time just below Greensboro.  That's just about 500 miles straight line over the Appalachians.

Our nug lives in Apex,NC....he said he can pick up the feed at night sometimes but not during the daylight hours.That's odd...

[That's No Moon]

6 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

AM, due to its much lower frequency travels much further.

FM is generally line of sight, but sometimes with atmospheric bouncing it can go greater distances.

A number of years ago I picked up Atlanta, GA fm in Philadelphia in the middle of the afternoon strong enough that it overran the local station I was trying to listen to.

Radios themselves are odd sometimes. When I was a kid I had a fisher price sing along radio that couldn't pick up local stations to save it's life but be damned if I couldn't listen to Detroit and St Louis clear as a bell after dark.

[Misterbluesky]

4 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

A number of years ago I picked up Atlanta, GA fm in Philadelphia in the middle of the afternoon strong enough that it overran the local station I was trying to listen to.

That was the moon at work.

[sherpa]

16 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

Our nug lives in Apex,NC....he said he can pick up the feed at night sometimes but not during the daylight hours.That's odd...

 

Its not odd.

The atmosphere changes at night, and the changes effect radio wave propagation.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Once you climb the Niagara Escarpment, you lose Moses' highbrow offerings.  ?

 

 

We barely get your 94.5 NPR here

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

www.radio-locator.com

 

An excellent source on identifying N. American stations by call signs, locations, frequencies, etc.  The one for Canada allowed me to figure out whose transmitters were out on the Toronto Islands.

[Cripple Creek]

18 hours ago, Ice bowl 67 said:

I noticed 96.1 playing Nothing's going to stop us now and now they are playing Its my life by No Doubt. I thought where is this from.  I thought that was strange that this station was overtaking our rock station and between songs they advertised for Buffalo and identified themselves as Mix 96! I looked it up and I am picking you guys up on FM! That's incredible.

Jesus, put that thing down. You don't want to get a hernia.

[AllenWillBust]

I remember picking up WGR550 in North Bay Canada one time...  I'm not a radio expert but there must have been some rebroadcasting shenanigans going on.

Edited September 1, 2018 by AllenWillBust

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

38 minutes ago, AllenWillBust said:

I remember picking up WGR550 in North Bay Canada one time...  I'm not a radio expert but there must have been some rebroadcasting shenanigans going on.

Quite possibly not.  WGR was quite clear all the way up Hwy. 69 years ago to Parry Sound during the daytime.  Coverage maps show both daytime and nighttime signal patterns reaching southern Georgian Bay, and that's only at 5,000 watts.  They may have reduced their power in these newer days, or you got the benefit of a 'skip'.  At WWKB's Wikipedia entry, there are reports of that station (a 50,000 watt flamethrower) being heard in Sweden.  Swedish tourists actually visited the transmitter site at various times as a sort of homage to the signal and the event.

Edited September 2, 2018 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[sherpa]

Want bizarre,  listen to HF at night.

[ExiledInIllinois]

23 minutes ago, sherpa said:

Want bizarre,  listen to HF at night.

@ work... We had a short wave station, antenna array, etc... I used to joke when we went in there that we were gonna call the "Taiwan Lock & Dam"... LoL... 

 

We took the antenna array (it was like giant bow-tie between twin towers) down, surplused the equipment when our USACE District eliminated their "District Radio" systems, got rid of repeaters, etc...

 

 

[Cripple Creek]

46 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

@ work... We had a short wave station, antenna array, etc... I used to joke when we went in there that we were gonna call the "Taiwan Lock & Dam"... LoL... 

 

We took the antenna array (it was like giant bow-tie between twin towers) down, surplused the equipment when our USACE District eliminated their "District Radio" systems, got rid of repeaters, etc...

 

 

Thank you. I was wondering what happened.

[PromoTheRobot]

23 hours ago, Ice bowl 67 said:

I noticed 96.1 playing Nothing's going to stop us now and now they are playing Its my life by No Doubt. I thought where is this from.  I thought that was strange that this station was overtaking our rock station and between songs they advertised for Buffalo and identified themselves as Mix 96! I looked it up and I am picking you guys up on FM! That's incredible.

It's something called atmospheric ducting.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_duct

[ExiledInIllinois]

16 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

It's something called atmospheric ducting.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_duct

Would the storms (that were) passing here (to the south of G.Bay) on Southern L.Michigan... And a lot of water between BFLo & G.Bay have helped???

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Would the storms (that were) passing here (to the south of G.Bay) on Southern L.Michigan... And a lot of water between BFLo & G.Bay have helped???

Absolutely.

[row_33]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Absolutely.

 

For AM radio 

[Tiberius]

On 9/1/2018 at 1:36 AM, ExiledInIllinois said:

There are thunderstorms, strong ones rolling through this side of Lake Michigan... G.Bay is just 2° further north than BFLo.

 

The atmospherics probably good along that front. Clear to North???

 

Also... FWIW... Did you know that where you are in Green Bay, even better if you are in Door County (Bayshore Blufflands)... That you may be on or near the Niagara Escarpment?  Yep, the same geological feature that creates Niagara Falls and impounds L.Michigan/Huron & Erie to the North.  So you are closer to Western New York than you really think! ?  

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Escarpment

 

 

Niagara Escarpment in WI:

 

 

So... You really are a Niagara-tonian after all!  So root for the Bills when they play the Packers!!... I know You rooted for them last night and will when they play the Bears again during the regular season!

 

??

They have this map of the Great Lakes where I return cans and it just has profiles of the lakes, size, depth and all. It shows, among other things, how the top of Lake Ontario is below the bottom of Lake Erie. Also how small Lake Erie is compared to the other lakes. 

12 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Quite possibly not.  WGR was quite clear all the way up Hwy. 69 years ago to Parry Sound during the daytime.  Coverage maps show both daytime and nighttime signal patterns reaching southern Georgian Bay, and that's only at 5,000 watts.  They may have reduced their power in these newer days, or you got the benefit of a 'skip'.  At WWKB's Wikipedia entry, there are reports of that station (a 50,000 watt flamethrower) being heard in Sweden.  Swedish tourists actually visited the transmitter site at various times as a sort of homage to the signal and the event.

I drove all the way to Columbus listening to a Sabres game once. Couldn't believe it. I can't pick up WGR in the southern tier at night most times. 

[PromoTheRobot]

12 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

For AM radio 

 

No. The skywave phenomenon is exclusively AM radio. AM waves bounce off the ionosphere at night. That's why you here certain "clear channel" AM stations from far away.

 

Atmospheric ducting only affects FM signals because the layers of moist air "duct" FM signals around the curve of the earth. Normally FM and TV are strictly line-of-sight.

12 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Quite possibly not.  WGR was quite clear all the way up Hwy. 69 years ago to Parry Sound during the daytime.  Coverage maps show both daytime and nighttime signal patterns reaching southern Georgian Bay, and that's only at 5,000 watts.  They may have reduced their power in these newer days, or you got the benefit of a 'skip'.  At WWKB's Wikipedia entry, there are reports of that station (a 50,000 watt flamethrower) being heard in Sweden.  Swedish tourists actually visited the transmitter site at various times as a sort of homage to the signal and the event.

 

Another fun fact. The lower the frequency you are on AM, the more efficient your signal becomes. So WGR at 550 and 5,000 watts has the same reach as WWKB at 1520 and 50,000 watts. 

 

But the one advantage KB has over GR is 1520 is a clear channel east of the Mississippi. 550 is not.

Edited September 2, 2018 by PromoTheRobot

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

21 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

At work on good nights with our 75 foot vhf-fm antenna we will pick up USCG, Upper MS River Keokuk, Iowa... Which is just under 300 miles away.  Once in a while Detroit... And @ just over 500 miles BFLo USCG, once I heard!

 

That's far for FM....USCG can't be putting out the watts that much?  A normal consumer product puts out 25w or 1w...  What the USCG is putting out is a lot more... But not like 50,000 watt AM station. 

With a coiled AM antenna, workers in Alaska could pick up stations in Lower 48.

 

Didn't they sell a coil AM antenna @ one y time and market the Alaska thingy about workers picking up Lower 48 AM stations?

 

AM you could probably coil all around your house and probably bring in impressive distances.

 

I think PTR is into the radio stuff and knows how true this may be?

If you poke around C. Crane's website I think they show you how to rig your own home made AM antenna.

[row_33]

96.1 comes through in Toronto, between two powerful stations.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by row_33

[Chandemonium]

On 9/1/2018 at 1:11 AM, WhoTom said:

Under certain atmospheric conditions, radio waves can travel hundreds of miles by bouncing off of the ionosphere and large bodies of water (like the Great Lakes.) When I lived in Western NY, the radio in my parents' car sometimes picked up WLS out of Chicago.

 

 

I live in South Carolina and I’ve picked up people as far away as Boston on my CB.

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 hours ago, Tiberius said:

They have this map of the Great Lakes where I return cans and it just has profiles of the lakes, size, depth and all. It shows, among other things, how the top of Lake Ontario is below the bottom of Lake Erie. Also how small Lake Erie is compared to the other lakes.

Sorry for the side-bars IceBowl... But my middle name is "sidebar!" ??

 

The Village I live in, South of Chicago... In Will County, actually draws their wells from Ekevation @ L.Superior water table and has sustainable water for @ least a few hundred years.  High in iron too, FWIW.

 

 

Like this:

 

 

Another interesting fact.  Say you are looking at this cross-section "straight up the barrel" north at the southern tip of L.Michigan... Which is kinda the perspective of this cross-section.  The reason why the Chicago Canals "work" & get through the 5 foot continental divide is the bottom elevation of the Chicago Area Waterways (CAWs) is the same as the elevation @ the precipice of Niagara Falls.  Basically, draw a line on that cross-section west to Lake Michigan from the precipice of The Falls.  There are no controlling works @ St.Clair/Detroit river. Which is ~30 feet deeper @ bottom where Huron meets St.Clair River... Dredged for shipping. There, it's like opening the emergency hole in your bathroom sink lower.

 

Now... Supposedly when The Falls meets the mouth of L.Erie @ BFLo, 8 miles upstream, in a few thousand years... They say... L.Michigan & L.Huron will drop 150 feet instantly upon L.Erie opening up on Niagara gorge.  CRAZY!  One way to close the canals down in Chicago! ??

 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Sorry for the side-bars IceBowl... But my middle name is "sidebar!" ??

 

The Village I live in, South of Chicago... In Will County, actually draws their wells from Ekevation @ L.Superior water table and has sustainable water for @ least a few hundred years.  High in iron too, FWIW.

 

 

Like this:

 

 

Another interesting fact.  Say you are looking at this cross-section "straight up the barrel" north at the southern tip of L.Michigan... Which is kinda the perspective of this cross-section.  The reason why the Chicago Canals "work" & get through the 5 foot continental divide is the bottom elevation of the Chicago Area Waterways (CAWs) is the same as the elevation @ the precipice of Niagara Falls.  Basically, draw a line on that cross-section west to Lake Michigan from the precipice of The Falls.  There are no controlling works @ St.Clair/Detroit river. Which is ~30 feet deeper @ bottom where Huron meets St.Clair River... Dredged for shipping. There, it's like opening the emergency hole in your bathroom sink lower.

 

Now... Supposedly when The Falls meets the mouth of L.Erie @ BFLo, 8 miles upstream, in a few thousand years... They say... L.Michigan & L.Huron will drop 150 feet instantly upon L.Erie opening up on Niagara gorge.  CRAZY!  One way to close the canals down in Chicago! ??

 

Great post! Very interesting. I'll have to look at a map to figure out the Detroit reference so I understand it better. I think I know what you mean. 

 

Anyway, in Chicago I stayed at the Hyatt Regency near the McCormick Place. I went and saw the science and industry museum and it was pretty cool. I didn't want to wait for the train so I decided to walk the five miles back, past some of the big projects I have always heard about but it was all good. Chicago is something else, old and new all in one. 

Oh ya, I looked at the map and see what you mean on both points. When Niagara is gone, so are the lakes!