Reggie Ragland story

[Aussie Joe]

42 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

So, you are saying they should have kept him even though he didn’t fit the scheme?

 

Interesting.

 

No.

 

I’m saying why pay so much for a scheme specific player in the first place and then turn around a year later before he has even played a game and trade him for some chump change you will get in two years time..

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

No.

 

I’m saying why pay so much for a scheme specific player in the first place and then turn around a year later before he has even played a game and trade him for some chump change you will get in two years time..

 

They didn't draft him.  Rex did.

[NoSaint]

57 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Brandon spikes role

Yup- front four rush and mlb is like a DT stuffing runs instead of lineman eating blockers for a second level blitzer.

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Doc said:

 

They didn't draft him.  Rex did.

 

The Bills drafted him and traded him..

 

Making the point that the situation  is very Billsy..

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

The Bills drafted him and traded him..

 

Making the point that the situation  is very Billsy..

 

A different regime and coach drafted him.  And they made the playoffs last year.  What's your point again?

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

he never played a down? he was injured

He played in preseason and in camp and did not earn a spot.  Simple.  He may be a better fit in KC.  Good for him.

 

But in Buffalo other guys played better and earned a spot over him in camp.  And that's life in the NFL

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

A different regime and coach drafted him.  And they made the playoffs last year.  What's your point again?

 

Sorry, I can’t make it any clearer...

 

Making the playoffs doesn’t mean you don’t make any mistakes either... lot of Chiefs fans think they got a bargain.. I agree with their opinion.. 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

 

KC sat him until the 5th game to give him time to recover from his knee injury. We had no patience.

We could see he wasn't going to be a good it. As Beane said sometimes part of trading a guy is to give him a new opportunity

[Sky Diver]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

We could see he wasn't going to be a good it. As Beane said sometimes part of trading a guy is to give him a new opportunity

 

 Not sure how they good judge his talent when he wasn’t a 100%.

[Punching Bag]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They didn't draft him.  Rex did.

 

Whiley drafted him but I am sure Rex told him that he was needed to fix defense.

11 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

The Bills drafted him and traded him..

 

Making the point that the situation  is very Billsy..

Cut the crap of calling decisions you do not like "Billsy".

 

Might as start calling full of crap posts Aussies.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Sorry, I can’t make it any clearer...

 

Making the playoffs doesn’t mean you don’t make any mistakes either... lot of Chiefs fans think they got a bargain.. I agree with their opinion..

 

Time will tell whether the Bills made a mistake.  Again, I wouldn't change a thing they did last year, and that includes trading Ragland.

 

[Zerovoltz]

We are glad to have Ragland here....he fits what they want him to do wich is mostly be a run stuffer....as the season goes on you can really see that he excells at reading the play, getting to the gap, filling, shedding etc...as other here have mentioned, Ragland isn't all that adept at coverage...and that's fine.  KC won't ask him to do much of it....for his role etc...now having recovered from the injury and seeing him progress, I'd say we got a good deal....we'll see how it goes this year.  Another person mentioned we signed an LB (Hitchens from Dallas) ....that was to replace Derrick Johnson...a great LB in his time..but he was noticibly VERY SLOW.....no longer able to pursue sideline to sideline nor cover like he once did....major liability....loved him as a player but time caught up to him.  

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

 

No. He can be a 3 down player in the right scheme.

He could have been our Brandon Spikes 2.0 ? but SCHEME happened

[oldmanfan]

7 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

 Not sure how they good judge his talent when he wasn’t a 100%.

They had a season to play.  When a guy can't get past third string you basically have three choices.  Put him on the practice squad, cut him, or trade him.   Trading him gave him a fresh start and gave us a pick back.

 

Beane didn't trade the picks to get him, Whaley did.  And Ryan.  Maybe if he hadn't wrecked his knee things would have been different.  But he did.  And they weren't.

[Aussie Joe]

7 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Cut the crap of calling decisions you do not like "Billsy".

 

Might as start calling full of crap posts Aussies.

 

I make no apologies of being critical of Bills recent drafting prior to 2017...

 

That might be a “full of crap”opinion but I think it’s supported by how so few draft choices are still on the team..

 

 

[Sky Diver]

1 minute ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

He could have been our Brandon Spikes 2.0 ? but SCHEME happened

 

If the scheme has him covering RBs or slot receivers, it wouldn’t work. If they have him in zone coverage, it would work. He’s not Brandon Spikes.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Aussie Joe said:

 

I make no apologies of being critical of Bills recent drafting prior to 2017...

 

That might be a “full of crap”opinion but I think it’s supported by how so few draft choices are still on the team..

 

 

I didn't like John Rausch making OJ into a decoy, but it's not really relevant to what Beane and McDermott did.

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, Sky Diver said:

 

If the scheme has him covering RBs or slot receivers, it wouldn’t work. If they have him in zone coverage, it would work. He’s not Brandon Spikes.

Yeah I'm being facetious he's great, certainly better than NOTHING but try to convince that to guys that think good defensive players can't play in a SCHEME

[oldmanfan]

Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Yeah I'm being facetious he's great, certainly better than NOTHING but try to convince that to guys that think good defensive players can't play in a SCHEME

I think I'll trust McD and Frazier on this topic over you.

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I didn't like John Rausch making OJ into a decoy, but it's not really relevant to what Beane and McDermott did.

 

I thought they traded Ragland?

 

Im talking about both drafting him and trading him and both being decisions I didn’t agree with in terms of the amount paid and received...

 

I am allowed to express that opinion right?

[Sky Diver]

It worked out well for Ragland. Maybe Taron Johnson will be a stud.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

I thought they traded Ragland?

 

Im talking about both drafting him and trading him and both being decisions I didn’t agree with in terms of the amount paid and received...

 

I am allowed to express that opinion right?

I also wasn't happy with their decision about drafting Lamonica and then trading him if you want to get picky.  But again that has no relevance to what Beane and McDermott did since they weren't making decisions back then.

 

Ragland was drafted by one regime.  He tore up his knee.  The regime then changed and he couldn't get off the third string.  So they traded him.

 

Can you have an opinion?  Sure.  Can others disagree and discuss?  Sure.

2 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

It worked out well for Ragland. Maybe Taron Johnson will be a stud.

Hope it does for both.  

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I also wasn't happy with their decision about drafting Lamonica and then trading him if you want to get picky.  But again that has no relevance to what Beane and McDermott did since they weren't making decisions back then.

 

Ragland was drafted by one regime.  He tore up his knee.  The regime then changed and he couldn't get off the third string.  So they traded him.

 

Can you have an opinion?  Sure.  Can others disagree and discuss?  Sure.

 

Well when there is a Lamonica thread make sure you put your thoughts in that thread then..

 

Glad I can put my thoughts about Ragland in this thread and appears we will agree to disagree...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Well when there is a Lamonica thread make sure you put your thoughts in that thread then..

 

Glad I can put my thoughts about Ragland in this thread and appears we will agree to disagree...

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Lamonica example was use to debate your comment about drafting before 2017. I could spend all night bringing up different bad picks made by different GMs.  But since it wasn't Beane that picked them it's not his fault.  

[Sky Diver]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I also wasn't happy with their decision about drafting Lamonica and then trading him if you want to get picky.  But again that has no relevance to what Beane and McDermott did since they weren't making decisions back then.

 

Ragland was drafted by one regime.  He tore up his knee.  The regime then changed and he couldn't get off the third string.  So they traded him.

 

Can you have an opinion?  Sure.  Can others disagree and discuss?  Sure.

Hope it does for both.  

 

Ragland was a 5* recruit and Johnson was hardly recruited, but you never know.

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/taron-johnson?id=32462018-0002-5600-928c-90992fa18499

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Sky Diver said:

 

Ragland was a 5* recruit and Johnson was hardly recruited, but you never know.

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/taron-johnson?id=32462018-0002-5600-928c-90992fa18499

They have Edmunds and Milano.  I think we'll be OK.  Ragland is meant for a 3-4.

[Aussie Joe]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The Lamonica example was use to debate your comment about drafting before 2017. I could spend all night bringing up different bad picks made by different GMs.  But since it wasn't Beane that picked them it's not his fault.  

 

Ok...

 

But in this thread specifically about Ragland I am expressing opinion on drafting him and trading him... he never saw the field for the Bills so it’s pretty much all we can discuss about him Bills wise..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

No.

 

I’m saying why pay so much for a scheme specific player in the first place and then turn around a year later before he has even played a game and trade him for some chump change you will get in two years time..

 

He was a sunk cost. You don't make decisions based on how much a previous regime invested in him. Same with Dareus, Watkins, etc. And the same goes for any new acquisitions through the draft or free agency. If they don't work out, move on from them asap and procure some assets in the process if possible.

 

Bill Belichick is excellent at cutting his losses and moving on, regardless of what it cost the team. That's part of what makes him a great coach: not that he doesn't make mistakes, but that he moves on from them very quickly. I hope this Bills regime can do the same.

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

 

He was a sunk cost. You don't make decisions based on how much a previous regime invested in him. Same with Dareus, Watkins, etc. And the same goes for any new acquisitions through the draft or free agency. If they don't work out, move on from them asap and procure some assets in the process if possible.

 

Bill Belichick is excellent at cutting his losses and moving on, regardless of what it cost the team. That's part of what makes him a great coach: not that he doesn't make mistakes, but that he moves on from them very quickly. I hope this Bills regime can do the same.

 

I fully understand that they were never going to get back what they paid for Ragland.

 

I posted on another thread that Whaley was quoted after the 2016 draft saying that he was trying to move up to 32 to get Ragland ( they got him  at 41)so in some ways the price they paid may have even been higher .. ( let’s be thankful for small mercies)

 

I think they were quick to sell him cheap though...just my opinion but from what I saw and read about him last season that might have some weight..

 

Look having said that though .. Beane got a lot right as well, for example the Tyrod trade and he slow played AJ situation to perfection... not trying to hate on the man by any means..

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

8 hours ago, stuvian said:

why would coach process bail on a character guy like this?

Because he is a 2-down, slow LB that can't cover

[Logic]

Until further notice, Ragland just reminds me of Kelvin Sheppard. Yes, I realize Ragland was a 1st round pick and Sheppard a 3rd round pick, but... in terms of strengths and weaknesses, play style, speed (or lack of it)...Bills fans (including myself) were wild about that pick, but he turned out to be nothing more than a journeyman 2-down run stuffer who couldn't cover. That's okay. A quality 2-down run-stuffing inside linebacker is a good thing to have. His loss is nothing Bills fans should lose sleep over, however.

Heck, even first year fifth round pick Matt Milano has had a statistically superior career to Ragland thus far in their careers.

I liked Ragland when we drafted him, but I'm over it. Tremaine Edmunds FTW.

[Ol Dirty B]

4 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

No.

 

I’m saying why pay so much for a scheme specific player in the first place and then turn around a year later before he has even played a game and trade him for some chump change you will get in two years time..

 

Because of Pegula. He is the one to blame for that.

11 minutes ago, Logic said:

Until further notice, Ragland just reminds me of Kelvin Sheppard. Yes, I realize Ragland was a 1st round pick and Sheppard a 3rd round pick, but... in terms of strengths and weaknesses, play style, speed (or lack of it)...Bills fans (including myself) were wild about that pick, but he turned out to be nothing more than a journeyman 2-down run stuffer who couldn't cover. That's okay. A quality 2-down run-stuffing inside linebacker is a good thing to have. His loss is nothing Bills fans should lose sleep over, however.

Heck, even first year fifth round pick Matt Milano has had a statistically superior career to Ragland thus far in their careers.

I liked Ragland when we drafted him, but I'm over it. Tremaine Edmunds FTW.

 

Nothing about this post is accurate. He was a 2nd round pick, not a first. He also never played a down for the Bills, and has barely played for KC. 

 

I'm big on Edmunds too but the way you are dismissing Ragland you would have thought he started for 2 years for the Bills.

[Aussie Joe]

39 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Because of Pegula. He is the one to blame for that.

 

I consider the Bills actions , results and outcomes collectively...

 

I support a team ... not a group of individuals..

Edited July 21, 2018 by Aussie Joe

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Until further notice, Ragland just reminds me of Kelvin Sheppard. Yes, I realize Ragland was a 1st round pick and Sheppard a 3rd round pick, but... in terms of strengths and weaknesses, play style, speed (or lack of it)...Bills fans (including myself) were wild about that pick, but he turned out to be nothing more than a journeyman 2-down run stuffer who couldn't cover. 

 

The Buffalo Bills selected Ragland in the second round (41st overall) of the 2016 NFL Draft. 

[timekills17]

9 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

The Bills drafted him and traded him..

 

Making the point that the situation  is very Billsy..

 

 

 

 

Kind of like releasing Gillislee rather than paying for him like the fans wanted?

Or the certainty that Chris Hogan would become a star in NE when he actually caught less passes for less yards than his average in Buffalo?

Or trading away our star MLB (Kiko) for an over-the-hill RB? [Nothing Shady: Eagles own Bills in LeSean McCoy-Kiko Alonso trade:  "In reality, they just owned Buffalo in this proposed deal"- the Sporting News.com] 

Or another highly drafted LB from LSU (Sheppard) to the Colts for a criminally underperforming DE/LB hybrid from TCU?!? (quote: "one of former general manager Bill Polian's worst picks in Indianapolis...")

 

I love the recency bias - or more correctly because it isn't even true recently - malaise bias that Bills fans have that we make worse trades than other teams.

Edited July 21, 2018 by timekills17

[Aussie Joe]

3 minutes ago, timekills17 said:

Kind of like releasing Gillislee rather than paying for him like the fans wanted?

Or the certainty that Chris Hogan would become a star in NE when he actually caught less passes for less yards than his average in Buffalo?

Or trading away our star MLB (Kiko) for an over-the-hill RB? [Nothing Shady: Eagles own Bills in LeSean McCoy-Kiko Alonso trade:  "In reality, they just owned Buffalo in this proposed deal"- the Sporting News.com] 

Or another highly drafted LB from LSU (Sheppard) to the Colts for a criminally underperforming DE/LB hybrid from TCU?!? (quote: "one of former general manager Bill Polian's worst picks in Indianapolis...")

 

I love the recency bias - or more correctly because it isn't even true recently - malaise bias that Bills fans have that we make worse trades than other teams.

 

It’s a combination of the drafting and trading and losing good drafted players in free agency..,

 

Yeah LeSean was a good pick up...

 

How are the drafts 2011-2016 looking?

 

Who is left?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Perfect example of why changing coaches all the time is a bad idea. Hopefully if McDermott has a couple rough years we don't try and dump him and start over. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[FearLess Price]

Thats great. Good for Raggy. I think this year well see him do much better. Last year hes still getting in game shape from the torn acl. 

[Logic]

Everyone knows the Bills' story: For the past 20 years, they have so often changed head coaches and front offices that they have been caught in an endless loop of switching offensive and defensive systems, getting rid of quality players because they no longer fit the new systems, and then having to draft a bunch of guys who DO fit the new systems...just in time to see the whole staff and/or front office fired and the whole process start over again.

Hopefully, HOPEFULLY...that cycle is over and the Bills have finally hit on the right front office/coaching combination. If so, then perhaps they can actually start drafting AND retaining good players, and can build on what they have year after year rather than always hitting the "reset" button. If this is the case, then I could care less about Ragland, Watkins, Darby, or whomever...As it is, the Bills made the playoffs with an inferior roster (yes, it was inferior because of the aforementioned reasons of jettisoning players who don't fit the new regime), which seems to be due to good coaching. Let's hope this quality play continues, so none of us has to spend time wondering about things like two-down linebackers who play for other teams any more.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Logic

[3rdand12]

14 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

He played in preseason and in camp and did not earn a spot.  Simple.  He may be a better fit in KC.  Good for him.

 

But in Buffalo other guys played better and earned a spot over him in camp.  And that's life in the NFL

 

14 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

 Not sure how they good judge his talent when he wasn’t a 100%.

Part of my point, thanks.
But as mentioned ,good for everyone he got another opportunity in KC

10 hours ago, Logic said:

Until further notice, Ragland just reminds me of Kelvin Sheppard. Yes, I realize Ragland was a 1st round pick and Sheppard a 3rd round pick, but... in terms of strengths and weaknesses, play style, speed (or lack of it)...Bills fans (including myself) were wild about that pick, but he turned out to be nothing more than a journeyman 2-down run stuffer who couldn't cover. That's okay. A quality 2-down run-stuffing inside linebacker is a good thing to have. His loss is nothing Bills fans should lose sleep over, however.

Heck, even first year fifth round pick Matt Milano has had a statistically superior career to Ragland thus far in their careers.

I liked Ragland when we drafted him, but I'm over it. Tremaine Edmunds FTW.

Good post.

 I agree with highlighted bit as I am sure Aussie Joe does  too.

4 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

Perfect example of why changing coaches all the time is a bad idea. Hopefully if McDermott has a couple rough years we don't try and dump him and start over. 

Thank you !