Zebrastripes Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: You have no idea how many do or don't but that comment fits your narrative so have at it. Ask yourself, before this topic came up how much time had you personally spent contemplating police treatment of minorities. Probably close to zero. If that number is now greater than the original number, even if your opinion has not been changed, the protest was effective. No one is just talking police treatment of minorities it's protests in general. There are so many different protests going on that people can not keep them straight anymore. Your right about police treatment of minorities and it got me curious. So I did some research and the topic and found out whites are more likely to be killed by a cop than any other race. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/?noredirect=on 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthomas Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said: No one is just talking police treatment of minorities it's protests in general. There are so many different protests going on that people can not keep them straight anymore. Your right about police treatment of minorities and it got me curious. So I did some research and the topic and found out whites are more likely to be killed by a cop than any other race. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/?noredirect=on While you are correct in that more white people have been killed by police, you need to look at the ratios per race. There are roughly 38 Million African Americans, while there are 247 Million Caucasians. The number of African Americans killed by police is a larger percentage of their population than Caucasians. Almost 5 to 1 i believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, brianthomas said: While you are correct in that more white people have been killed by police, you need to look at the ratios per race. There are roughly 38 Million African Americans, while there are 247 Million Caucasians. The number of African Americans killed by police is a larger percentage of their population than Caucasians. Almost 5 to 1 i believe. As you are correct but you're failing to note that African Americans have a higher number of police interactions than that of Caucasians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just for my edification- Do those of you who disagree with the Dolphins choice, believe that people should be allowed to protest anything they want at any time through any (non-violent) manner? Just to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Doc Brown said: They can't even survive with replacement refs. In a way they're enhancing the impact of the protest. Impact of what? Please explain what exactly the kneelers have accomplished for society. 27 minutes ago, Clemfield2622 said: nobody said that. nobody has ever said that. it's a BS thing that people made up that because these guys are exercising their 1A rights, that they're ungrateful, whiny, and consider themselves oppressed. Can they excercise their 2nd amendment rights while on the field as well? Take your right to do whatever you want and throw it out the window when it comes to the workplace. Edited July 20, 2018 by Binghamton Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Just for my edification- Do those of you who disagree with the Dolphins choice, believe that people should be allowed to protest anything they want at any time through any (non-violent) manner? Just to clarify. I obviously don't think people should be able to actively protest anything they want in any way. But forced shows of loyalty or patriotism are dumb and I don't have any problem with passive protests against that. If a player held a BLM banner up in front of a sideline camera that is too far, but deciding to NOT stand for the anthem isn't disruptive or in anyone's face. So I accept that the NFL can set whatever policy they'd like, but in practice I don't like them policing what the players do during the anthem. Like someone mentioned above they only do the anthem because the military pays them. That isn't patriotism. The NFL is a capitalist enterprise, it's not like the players are kneeling at a military funeral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Impact of what? Please explain what exactly the kneelers have accomplished for society. They have galvanized a lot of people against them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Just for my edification- Do those of you who disagree with the Dolphins choice, believe that people should be allowed to protest anything they want at any time through any (non-violent) manner? Just to clarify. Not me....I also don’t believe that a team can institute fines and suspensions that aren’t clearly defined in the collective bargaining agreement. This is a pretty broad interpretation on the Dolphins part. That’s where my beef is. Personally, I don’t care what happens during the anthem. If they want to stand, fine. If they want to kneel, fine. If they want to stay in the locker room, fine. If they decide to stop playing it before games, fine. It doesn’t enhance the overall experience (expect Whitney in XXV). It is a polarizing topic. It’s like taking prayer out of public schools. People are outraged for a little while and then it goes away. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Please explain what exactly the kneelers have accomplished for society. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000923216/article/nfl-to-provide-funds-for-local-social-justice-projects Whether you agree with funds being used for social justice is up to you, but that is not something the NFL would have done if not for the protests. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: Not me....I also don’t believe that a team can institute fines and suspensions that aren’t clearly defined in the collective bargaining agreement. This is a pretty broad interpretation on the Dolphins part. That’s where my beef is. Personally, I don’t care what happens during the anthem. If they want to stand, fine. If they want to kneel, fine. If they want to stay in the locker room, fine. If they decide to stop playing it before games, fine. It doesn’t enhance the overall experience (expect Whitney in XXV). It is a polarizing topic. It’s like taking prayer out of public schools. People are outraged for a little while and then it goes away. This is a good point- hadn't thought of that. But I also don't know anything about it. It seems like it would be something to be grouped under the "conduct" section as it appears the dolphins are trying to do. I suppose the Union will fight it if they feel it to be too broad in it's interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...laughable...if any one of us REAL working stiffs used our employer's platform to express political views, we'd all be colored "pink" in a nanosecond....Code of Conduct while in the "care, custody and control (ie. working hours)" of said EMPLOYER shall govern.....conduct outside those parameters shall be governed by the Laws of the State of_____....violations shall be dealt with accordingly"............ I suspect many here have not had to work in a real job that requires a profit to pay employees and fund growth. The NFL is regulating the work time, not their personal time. Protest on your own time and there is no issue. Just read a story where a coffee shop employee made a remark to a police officer. He was fired next day. The difference is the players feel they are entitled to special rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, HappyDays said: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000923216/article/nfl-to-provide-funds-for-local-social-justice-projects Whether you agree with funds being used for social justice is up to you, but that is not something the NFL would have done if not for the protests. Nothing. It has just lined the pockets of some idiots. Show me the”social justice” taking place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I obviously don't think people should be able to actively protest anything they want in any way. But forced shows of loyalty or patriotism are dumb and I don't have any problem with passive protests against that. If a player held a BLM banner up in front of a sideline camera that is too far, but deciding to NOT stand for the anthem isn't disruptive or in anyone's face. So I accept that the NFL can set whatever policy they'd like, but in practice I don't like them policing what the players do during the anthem. Like someone mentioned above they only do the anthem because the military pays them. That isn't patriotism. The NFL is a capitalist enterprise, it's not like the players are kneeling at a military funeral. Well, if they only do it for the money then it really isn't a forced show of loyalty or patriotism. In fact, it's about the money. Similar to a dress code where bosses require folks to dress a certain way to achieve a certain level of appearance and thus make more money. I definitely see the point you're making, and I think letting them choose to stay in the locker if they desired is a better version, but I also don't think the league is violating their rights by forbidding protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthomas Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Zebrastripes said: As you are correct but you're failing to note that African Americans have a higher number of police interactions than that of Caucasians. I didn't leave it out because that in itself is what the whole issue is about. Thats why there have been protests. African Americans have a greater chance of a police encounter, have a greater chance to have force used against them, have a greater chance to be incarcerated, have a greater chance to get shot. There is a real issue of racial inequality when it comes to the criminal justice system. It's undeniable. What needs to happen now are serious discussions as to why this is the case & how do we fix it. Thats one good thing thats come up from the protests. People say all the time that "can't these players protest another way?' Well some have, but you wouldn't hear about them. When you think about it, this issue would've never gotten the attention it has if it wasn't for what the players did. Its unfortunate that their narrative got hijacked by the media & administration & turned into something else than it was, but that's what happens to any movement against the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 They should start ejecting fans that don't stand for the anthem. I see plenty of them every game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I am very surprised at the amount of people who are willing to have the National Anthem removed. Probably the same people that wanted GOD removed from the Pledge of Allegiance and think there are 69 genders. Such a sad state of affairs. 17 minutes ago, The Wiz said: They should start ejecting fans that don't stand for the anthem. I see plenty of them every game. I agree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebrastripes Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, brianthomas said: I didn't leave it out because that in itself is what the whole issue is about. Thats why there have been protests. African Americans have a greater chance of a police encounter, have a greater chance to have force used against them, have a greater chance to be incarcerated, have a greater chance to get shot. There is a real issue of racial inequality when it comes to the criminal justice system. It's undeniable. What needs to happen now are serious discussions as to why this is the case & how do we fix it. Thats one good thing thats come up from the protests. People say all the time that "can't these players protest another way?' Well some have, but you wouldn't hear about them. When you think about it, this issue would've never gotten the attention it has if it wasn't for what the players did. Its unfortunate that their narrative got hijacked by the media & administration & turned into something else than it was, but that's what happens to any movement against the status quo. So off of this argument you are saying most cops, judges, and jury's are racist. That seems like a stretch to me (Unfortunately there are some who are I would imagine). I think the reason why interactions are higher is a combination of education and where people live. African Americans are more likely to live in a city and less likely to graduate high school. Both of these factors contribute greatly to the odds of someone ending up in prison. I think the real issue we face as a country is educating our youth. If we start there I think everything else will fall into place and eventually balance out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, B-Man said: Seems to be a common theme here. It's called jealousy and ignorance!! 1 hour ago, El Guapo said: You do realize that the Constitution guarantees the right to freedom of speech from government suppression, right? It does not apply to private employment. Most people do not understand this at all. It is a double-edged sword though. There can be consequences. Most Liberals struggle with this concept. 1 hour ago, Clemfield2622 said: I wasn't trying to be subtle, so congrats for figuring it out. Simple fact, the owners (and the league) think they should be able to control all aspects of the players lives. The players want to use their platform to advance what they believe to be an important social message. This is a message their bosses don't agree with. It's become a political issue because part of this country thinks you should be able to tell them to "shut up and play" and another part thinks you shouldn't. They are getting paid to play a game. Yes they are elite talent, but have a fund raiser. Do you think it is the owners fault that so many black people are killing black people out in the streets? No it's not and I am sure as hell they are embarrassed when they see the false narrative being portrayed by the media. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I don't doubt that the Dolphins are dumb enough to pull the trigger on this. If they do, it will backfire badly. Players will call their bluff and other teams players will also walkout in solidarity. This issue is very emotionally personal for a lot of players. The NFL is playing with fire here. It could result in an effective wildcat strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, brianthomas said: While you are correct in that more white people have been killed by police, you need to look at the ratios per race. There are roughly 38 Million African Americans, while there are 247 Million Caucasians. The number of African Americans killed by police is a larger percentage of their population than Caucasians. Almost 5 to 1 i believe. Can you break that down further, like justified vs unjustified shootings/killings? It would be interesting to see the results. 1 hour ago, Zebrastripes said: As you are correct but you're failing to note that African Americans have a higher number of police interactions than that of Caucasians. I'm going to say it and get labeled a racist, but African Americans, according to FACTS, commit more crimes than Whites, hence, more police interactions. I'm sorry, it is simple logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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