John Kryk: (Beane) said that Colin Kaepernick would be a distraction

[eball]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't get why that is funny.  It's simply a case of separating head from heart. I am sceptical about Allen's chances of being a quality NFL starting Quarterback, but that is based on my cold, rational, head.  I desperately want him to be rookie of the year and leading the Bills into the post-season - that is heart.  

 

The way you have gone about discussing your concerns regarding Allen is 180 degrees apart from how Biscuit has done the same.  He consistently sites there is "overwhelming evidence" Allen will be a bust and clings to the completion percentage statistic as if it is the Holy Grail of QB success/failure predictors.  He deserves to be laughed at in this instance.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you read White Linen's report on the actual interview up-thread, it appears the title of this thead and John Kryk's piece misrepresent what Beane said, which was actually much more generalized "managerese" and hard to followup

 

Thanks.  

 

But the suggestion that the Bills first round top 10 QB might not even DRESS for the season....if he's not taking 1st team snaps...by mid-camp?

 

This is a white hot flaming take we should all be peeing on right now...

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I have already corrected my error.  

 

You keep bringing up he brought his team to the Super Bowl, yeah he did great.  As I mentioned Tebow, RG III, Vince Young all had a great year or great moments, so what.  The league figured them out and/or their skill seriously diminished. 

 

He was also going to get a gig with the Ravens til his girlfriend likened the Ravens owner to a slave owner.  And now he is suing the league, yep that is EXACTLY who i would want as my employee, someone that is suing me. 

 

The fact that he doesn't have a job in the league has nothing to do with diminishing skill as you allege.  His final season with SF was pretty good (16TD passes to 4 INTs) despite playing on a team without much surrounding talent.   

 

He's effectively been blackballed because of his activism.

[IDBillzFan]

22 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He might be the best QB on the Bills.  We would cream ourselves if Josh Allen posted Kaepernick ‘s “awful” stats his last year in the nfl on an awful offense.

 

Please. He's barely the best quarterback at his own dinner table.

 

The league figured him out, and even if you think he can compete, you'd have to get his girlfriend to sew up her piehole to avoid the distraction they bring to a team.

 

 

[SWATeam]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The fact that he doesn't have a job in the league has nothing to do with diminishing skill as you allege.  His final season with SF was pretty good (16TD passes to 4 INTs) despite playing on a team without much surrounding talent.   

 

He's effectively been blackballed because of his activism.

So, you believe then, that if Brady, Rodgers, or Newton took the same actions they would be blackballed out of the league as well?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The fact that he doesn't have a job in the league has nothing to do with diminishing skill as you allege.  His final season with SF was pretty good (16TD passes to 4 INTs) despite playing on a team without much surrounding talent.   

 

He's effectively been blackballed because of his activism.

 

Again, I thought Shady nailed it: it's both. 

 

If he were Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers level in skill, a top QB who can carry a team, don't you think he'd be employed despite his activism?

 

 

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, SWATeam said:

So, you believe then, that if Brady, Rodgers, or Newton took the same actions they would be blackballed out of the league as well?

 

They are all top flight QBs in the league, so they would be treated differently.  Kaepernick is simply not on their level. 

[IDBillzFan]

44 minutes ago, stuvian said:

Kaepernick gets a lifetime ban for speaking his mind in peaceful protest, Winston gets 3 game for sexual harrassment. Tell me that's just

 

Kaep isn't banned for speaking his mind.

 

He's unemployed because he isn't' that good and his girlfriend screwed up the last offer he was about to sign.

 

Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Thanks.  

But the suggestion that the Bills first round top 10 QB might not even DRESS for the season....if he's not taking 1st team snaps...by mid-camp?

This is a white hot flaming take we should all be peeing on right now...

 

How much did Mahomes dress last year?  Asking for a friend.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How much did Mahomes dress last year?  Asking for a friend.

 

 

Different situation with an established QB ahead of him in Alex Smith. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

They are all top flight QBs in the league, so they would be treated differently.  Kaepernick is simply not on their level. 

 

So when you said " The fact that he doesn't have a job in the league has nothing to do with diminishing skill as you allege.  His final season with SF was pretty good (16TD passes to 4 INTs) despite playing on a team without much surrounding talent.", the emphasis should be on "diminishing"?

 

It sounds as though you agree his overall level of QB skill was never that high and if it were that high, he's have a job?

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

They are all top flight QBs in the league, so they would be treated differently.  Kaepernick is simply not on their level. 

That is the point.  He is not simply out of the league due to his social stances.  He is out of the league because he is not good enough for teams to want to deal with all that comes with him.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, SWATeam said:

That is the point.  He is not simply out of the league due to his social stances.  He is out of the league because he is not good enough for teams to want to deal with all that comes with him.

 

Which means that's exactly why he's out of the league. 

[SWATeam]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Which means that's exactly why he's out of the league. 

Ok, I guess logic escapes you.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

Kaep isn't banned for speaking his mind.

He's unemployed because he isn't' that good and his girlfriend screwed up the last offer he was about to sign.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

 

Again - I think it's both.  He isn't that good, AND he (and his associates) create controversy and distration by speaking their mind

 

What happened with the Sea Snakes, weren't they about to bring him in?

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So when you said " The fact that he doesn't have a job in the league has nothing to do with diminishing skill as you allege.  His final season with SF was pretty good (16TD passes to 4 INTs) despite playing on a team without much surrounding talent.", the emphasis should be on "diminishing"?

 

It sounds as though you agree his overall level of QB skill was never that high and if it were that high, he's have a job?

 

No I'm saying he's definitely good enough to be in the league and start for some teams, but it's obvious that he's too much of an issue for those teams because of the attention he'd draw due to the other concerns. 

[IDBillzFan]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Again - I think it's both.  He isn't that good, AND he (and his associates) create controversy and distration by speaking their mind

 

What happened with the Sea Snakes, weren't they about to bring him in?

 

I would have to double-check, but I think they got wind of his lawsuit against the NFL and thought better of that idea.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, SWATeam said:

Ok, I guess logic escapes you.

 

Your logic leads to the conclusion that he's out of the league for reasons beyond talent. Just as I stated. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

I would have to double-check, but I think they got wind of his lawsuit against the NFL and thought better of that idea.

 

I thought his NFL lawsuit was all over the news long before they planned to bring him in, but maybe those FO guys don't have time to take in much news.

 

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Your logic leads to the conclusion that he's out of the league for reasons beyond talent. Just as I stated.

 

We agree Kaep would be treated differently if he had Brees or Rodgers-level talent

We agree Keap does not have that level of talent - he's better than a number of the backup QB and possibly better than some low-level starters.  Maybe ceiling of Tyrod Taylor, without as good running skill

We agree his political views/behavior impact his being out of the league

 

But you can't acknowledge that it's the combination of talent-level and behavior/views that have him out of the league

You insist it's just views/behavior

 

I give up.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How much did Mahomes dress last year?  Asking for a friend.

 

 

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Different situation with an established QB ahead of him in Alex Smith. 

 

 

What 26 said.  There's no one ahead of Allen.

 

Also, as the backup QB, wouldn't Mahomet dressed for every game?

 

 

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How much did Mahomes dress last year?  Asking for a friend.

 

 

Think he dressed every week.  Not dressing suggests not even being the backup to me.  

Edited July 5, 2018 by GunnerBill

[SWATeam]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

But you can't acknowledge that it's the combination of talent-level and behavior/views that have him out of the league

You insist it's just views/behavior

 

I give up.

There is no other conclusion.  If player A is out of the league due to their social stances, but you admit that player B would be treated differently under the same circumstances, then it is clearly not simply the social stances keeping him out of the league.  He could also posses the talent that gets others to be "treated differently."  He simply does not.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

What 26 said.  There's no one ahead of Allen.

 

Also, as the backup QB, wouldn't Mahomet dressed for every game?

 

 

 

I guess I stood in my own light a bit and sounded rhetorical, but it really was a genuine question: I didn't follow KC enough last year to know if they had a different backup on the roster.

 

Yes, if Mahomes was the backup, he would dress every game

[26CornerBlitz]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I thought his NFL lawsuit was all over the news long before they planned to bring him in, but maybe those FO guys don't have time to take in much news.

 

 

We agree Kaep would be treated differently if he had Brees or Rodgers-level talent

We agree Keap does not have that level of talent - he's better than a number of the backup QB and possibly better than some low-level starters.  Maybe ceiling of Tyrod Taylor, without as good running skill

We agree his political views/behavior impact his being out of the league

 

But you can't acknowledge that it's the combination of talent-level and behavior/views that have him out of the league

You insist it's just views/behavior

 

I give up.

 

For me, that's the bottom line reason why he's not on a roster with less talented/accomplished QBs playing.   

[Capco]

Sorry if this has been asked already, but can anyone tell me if the Bills player #55 (Jerry Hughes?  not sure how old that pic is) is being held by the 49ers OL?

 

If not, why doesn't that count as holding?  

 

[stuvian]

Kaep is better than any back up QB outside Nick Foles. In terms of starters he's better than I offer: Tyrod Taylor, Alex Smith, Jameis Winston, Josh McCown, Sam Bradford, Blake Bortles, and Marcus Mariota. You can debate the likes of Joe Flacco and Ryan Tannheill. 

 

I don't deny that his presence would draw attention but the issue of the slaughter of young black men by law enforcement isn't going away. There are enough black NFL stars on the BLM side of this issue to bring a halt to proceedings on any given Sunday. 

 

The fact is that NFL owners are colluding against him for his political expressions and thereby denying him a right to his livelihood. It is not unlike Muhammad Ali's ban from boxing for refusing military service in the Vietnam war.

[Happy]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

What happened with the Sea Snakes, weren't they about to bring him in?

 

I thought Baltimore was about to sign him last year, and his GF screwed that up?  

[Dr. Who]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

For me, that's the bottom line reason why he's not on a roster with less talented/accomplished QBs playing.   

But context is important, no? Hapless has it right. Really good players are cut more slack. If you are going to bring baggage, you better be really good. Otherwise, teams will take a somewhat less talented player who isn't a pain in the keester. It's human nature to avoid unnecessary conflict. I don't think it amounts to a terrible injustice or conspiracy.

[Buffalo86]

It's understandable if every team looked at the situation indivdually and decided that Kaep's talent wasn't worth the trouble.  The issue would be if they all made a collective agreement not to sign him, or if a team that wanted to sign him was discouraged by the league from doing so.  

[thebandit27]

11 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

For me, that's the bottom line reason why he's not on a roster with less talented/accomplished QBs playing.   

 

Has any of those less-talented/accomplished QBs made it overtly obvious that football isn't his #1 priority?

 

Of course it's the bottom line.  As I said originally: he clearly isn't focused on football first, and he's not a good enough player to overcome that along with the distraction that he creates.

 

If he were more focused on football than on social issues, it's much more likely he'd still have an NFL job.  Now I ask you: who's fault is that?

[boyst]

Has anyone changed their mind on this issue yet?  Or ever?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

Has any of those less-talented/accomplished QBs made it overtly obvious that football isn't his #1 priority?

 

Of course it's the bottom line.  As I said originally: he clearly isn't focused on football first, and he's not a good enough player to overcome that along with the distraction that he creates.

 

If he were more focused on football than on social issues, it's much more likely he'd still have an NFL job.  Now I ask you: who's fault is that?

 

That's what you say with zero evidence to support your claim.  Malcolm Jenkins, Benjamin Watson,  and many other players are heavily involved in the same causes so I don't accept your conclusion that he and others cannot multi-task both on field career aspirations and off the field concerns. 

[IDBillzFan]

18 minutes ago, stuvian said:

The fact is that NFL owners are colluding against him for his political expressions and thereby denying him a right to his livelihood.

 

One more time: he HAD a job offer being written up. His girlfriend completely screwed it up when she publicly suggested that the Ravens owner was a racist and that Ray Lewis was an Uncle Tom.

 

By the time Kaep decided to sue the league, he was done.

 

He HAD a chance. It was blown. Not the league's fault.

 

I appreciate how a few of you want to make him out to be like Muhammed Ali, but it's ridiculous to elevate a mediocre quarterback with an activist girlfriend to one of the greatest athletes to play a sport.

 

 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That's what you say with zero evidence to support your claim.  Malcolm Jenkins, Benjamin Watson,  and many other players are heavily involved in the same causes so I don't accept your conclusion that he and others cannot multi-task both on field career aspirations and off the field concerns. 

 

Oh, certain guys can multi-task, sure.  And I never said that they couldn't.

 

I said that Kaep has made it overtly obvious that football isn't his #1 priority.  I'm hardly the first person to say this...there's this guy named Peter King--he's kind of plugged in when it comes to NFL circles--that indicated that the 49ers felt that to be the case:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/some-49ers-staffers-say-kaepernick-may-prefer-social-activism-to-football/

 

So again I say: if he were more focused on football than on social issues, it's much more likely he'd still have an NFL job.  And again I ask you: who's fault is that?

[Happy]

16 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Has anyone changed their mind on this issue yet?  Or ever?

 

Doubt it, otherwise Kaepernick would be on an NFL roster.  His playing days are most likely done, but the media keeps this story alive I would guess because it generates page clicks and this is the slow season of the NFL year.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Oh, certain guys can multi-task, sure.  And I never said that they couldn't.

 

I said that Kaep has made it overtly obvious that football isn't his #1 priority.  I'm hardly the first person to say this...there's this guy named Peter King--he's kind of plugged in when it comes to NFL circles--that indicated that the 49ers felt that to be the case:

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/some-49ers-staffers-say-kaepernick-may-prefer-social-activism-to-football/

 

So again I say: if he were more focused on football than on social issues, it's much more likely he'd still have an NFL job.  And again I ask you: who's fault is that?

 

"So Kaepernick has bought a place in downtown Manhattan and lives in the big city fairly anonymously. I spent a long draft weekend with the Niners in California, and there are those in the building who think Kaepernick might actually rather do social justice work full-time than play quarterback. "

 

Your claim is overstated just from what is quoted in the argument. There's nothing overt about your conclusion based on the linked article. Not surprising given your post the other day that stated the issues raised are dubious.   

[thebandit27]

11 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

"So Kaepernick has bought a place in downtown Manhattan and lives in the big city fairly anonymously. I spent a long draft weekend with the Niners in California, and there are those in the building who think Kaepernick might actually rather do social justice work full-time than play quarterback. "

 

Your claim is overstated just from what is quoted in the argument. There's nothing overt about your conclusion based on the linked article. Not surprising given your post the other day that stated the issues raised are dubious.   

 

Ah, so Peter King has no idea what he's talking about?  Got it.

 

Look, the situation is clear to anyone that is looking without an agenda.  He cares more about this stuff than he does about football; else he would've simply stopped kneeling during the anthem, wearing socks that depict police officers as swine, and wearing Castro t-shirts to press conferences.  He chose to do those things; that's his choice, and now he's experiencing the consequences.  If he cared more about football than social issues he'd have made different choices.  It's really, really clear.

 

And yes, his claims regarding disproportionate police violence against minorities were dubious; they weren't (and still aren't) supported by statistical data (as you and I have discussed before).  It would be wise not to turn to an ad hominem attack simply because the data don't support his assertion; you'll notice that I haven't done that.

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by thebandit27

[Prickly Pete]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

"So Kaepernick has bought a place in downtown Manhattan and lives in the big city fairly anonymously. I spent a long draft weekend with the Niners in California, and there are those in the building who think Kaepernick might actually rather do social justice work full-time than play quarterback. "

 

Your claim is overstated just from what is quoted in the argument. There's nothing overt about your conclusion based on the linked article. Not surprising given your post the other day that stated the issues raised are dubious.   

 

 

You've already lost the argument. 

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Ah, so Peter King has no idea what he's talking about?  Got it.

 

Look, the situation is clear to anyone that is looking without an agenda.  He cares more about this stuff than he does about football; else he would've simply stopped kneeling during the anthem, wearing socks that depict police officers as swine, and wearing Castro t-shirts to press conferences.  He chose to do those things; that's his choice, and now he's experiencing the consequences.  If he cared more about football than social issues he'd have made different choices.  It's really, really clear.

 

And yes, his claims regarding disproportionate police violence against minorities were dubious; they weren't (and still aren't) supported by statistical data.  It would be wise not to turn the discussion into an ad hominem attack simply because the data don't support his assertion; you'll notice that I haven't done that.

 

Weak!  Peter King has no inside knowledge and he just reported what some inside the 49ers organization believe might be CK's priority.  Again I state that there's nothing overtly obvious about what his priorities are based on that article or your opinion based on his actions. 

Edited July 5, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Weak!  Peter King has no inside knowledge and he just reported what some inside the 49ers organization believe might be CK's priority.  Again I state that there's nothing overtly obvious about what his priorities are based on that article. 

 

Ok then...you're right.  Kaep has shown an unquestioned dedication to football, and clearly does not have other interests outside the game that may be prioritized over things like practice, game preparation, etc. in a way that would make NFL coaches and/or GMs conclude that he cares more about those interests than the job for which he'd be getting paid.