How Does The Reaction to Josh Allen Compare To JP Losman and EJ Manuel?

[BuffaloRush]

To any old time fans, is the whole Josh Allen debacle similar or different to the most recent attempts at drafting a Bills QB in JP Losman and EJ Manuel.

 

I was around for the JP Losman pick but obviously did not have Twitter and wasn’t on the Bills message board yet.  So to any old time fans what was the reactions to Bills drafting JP Losman?  Was it as polarizing as the Josh Allen pick and were fans and media as negative on it?

 

I did follow the EJ Manuel selection.  I remember people were really really hoping he’d be a good QB, but in the back of everyone’s mind we all knew he probably was going to suck. Despite this, I don’t recall many people in the media panning this pick at the time.   This was right around the time when the “draft experts” were starting to gain popularity as well as the numerous drafting sites.  It could have just been an issue of not having as much information - or the fact that the local media wasn’t as aggressive.  

 

Anyway, if you remember help me out...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

As an old time fan  - GET OFF MY LAWN  with this 3rd or 4th redundant thread about Allen versus past failures   

 

I'm not trying to be rude.   Use the search function.  From recent activity this will get merged with the many other Allen versus the past QB's 

 

 

/snark 

Edited May 1, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[Ramza86]

I didnt believe in EJ Manuel at all. His tape was pretty bad and he didnt improve at all. 

 

Josh Allens video breakdowns are much more impressive and Allen is a better runner. 

 

I laughed when people said EJ could make all the throws. Allen can really make all of the throws. I think the kid has a shot to make it....but thats up to him and his adjustment to the NFL. 

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, Ramza86 said:

I didnt believe in EJ Manuel at all. His tape was pretty bad and he didnt improve at all. 

 

Josh Allens video breakdowns are much more impressive and Allen is a better runner. 

 

I laughed when people said EJ could make all the throws. Allen can really make all of the throws. I think the kid has a shot to make it....but thats up to him and his adjustment to the NFL. 

 

EJ could make a bunch of the throws, just not any of the useful ones 

 

Allen looks much better on tape than EJ

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

EJ could make a bunch of the throws, just not any of the useful ones 

 

Allen looks much better on tape than EJ

IMHO - Until JA steps onto a real NFL field with other professionals, we don't know what he'll do.  

 

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

IMHO - Until JA steps onto a real NFL field with other professionals, we don't know what he'll do.  

 

 

That goes for every draft pick ever.

[Kirby Jackson]

I think that it is much more likely Allen succeeds than either of those 2. Multiple NFL teams had Allen at the top of their board in a great QB draft. Losman was thought of as a reach in 2004 (although not a massive one). He would have been like taking Rudolph at 22. He was down a tier (at least) from the top. EJ was considered a total project in arguably the worst QB draft ever. If he were in this class he may very well have been a day 3 pick. All 3 had obvious deficiencies but Allen is certainly would have been considered the best of the 3 at this juncture.

3 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

That goes for every draft pick ever.

There was a poster here who will remain anonymous that preferred Karlos Williams to Zeke before Zeke played a game for that reason.

[SouthNYfan]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it is much more likely Allen succeeds than either of those 2. Multiple NFL teams had Allen at the top of their board in a great QB draft. Losman was thought of as a reach in 2004 (although not a massive one). He would have been like taking Rudolph at 22. He was down a tier (at least) from the top. EJ was considered a total project in arguably the worst QB draft ever. If he were in this class he may very well have been a day 3 pick. All 3 had obvious deficiencies but Allen is certainly would have been considered the best of the 3 at this juncture.

There was a poster here who will remain anonymous that preferred Karlos Williams to Zeke before Zeke played a game for that reason.

 

Good post.

I agree.

 

[Sky Diver]

Allen is not JP Losman and he's not EJ Manual. He's not anyone but Josh Allen. The comparisons and silly and ridiculous. Let the guy play.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

To any old time fans, is the whole Josh Allen debacle similar or different to the most recent attempts at drafting a Bills QB in JP Losman and EJ Manuel.

 

I was around for the JP Losman pick but obviously did not have Twitter and wasn’t on the Bills message board yet.  So to any old time fans what was the reactions to Bills drafting JP Losman?  Was it as polarizing as the Josh Allen pick and were fans and media as negative on it?

 

I did follow the EJ Manuel selection.  I remember people were really really hoping he’d be a good QB, but in the back of everyone’s mind we all knew he probably was going to suck. Despite this, I don’t recall many people in the media panning this pick at the time.   This was right around the time when the “draft experts” were starting to gain popularity as well as the numerous drafting sites.  It could have just been an issue of not having as much information - or the fact that the local media wasn’t as aggressive.  

 

Anyway, if you remember help me out...

 

For Manuel, most were very happy the Bills had finally moved on from Fitzpatrick and DRAFTED A QB.  There were cautious notes of people saying he had stunk up the joint in college, was only making half field reads and had "slow eyes", which were shushed up quickly.  Most people agreed that he was raw and would have to sit a while and learn (if he could learn) and when Kolb had his epic encounter with the bathmat and he was thrown in then injured, we worried.  There are some similarities, but I think they're really pretty super ficial.

 

I don't remember Losman reaction.  I had toddlers and a new, demanding job.   If I got to watch a game I was doing well.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

Allen is not JP Losman and he's not EJ Manual. He's not anyone but Josh Allen. The comparisons and silly and ridiculous. Let the guy play.

 

The point of the OP is asking people to comment or compare fan reaction to the various picks, not to compare the picks themselves.  The OP has no football to watch.  Let the guy play.

[Sky Diver]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

For Manuel, most were very happy the Bills had finally moved on from Fitzpatrick and DRAFTED A QB.  There were cautious notes of people saying he had stunk up the joint in college, was only making half field reads and had "slow eyes", which were shushed up quickly.  Most people agreed that he was raw and would have to sit a while and learn (if he could learn) and when Kolb had his epic encounter with the bathmat and he was thrown in then injured, we worried.  There are some similarities, but I think they're really pretty super ficial.

 

I don't remember Losman reaction.  I had toddlers and a new, demanding job.   If I got to watch a game I was doing well.

 

 

 

The point of the OP is asking people to comment or compare fan reaction to the various picks, not to compare the picks themselves.  The OP has no football to watch.  Let the guy play.

 

There were naysayers, but in general, there was cautious optimism about Manual and Losman with the recognition that both needed time to develop. The reaction was nothing like the travesty we are seeing now.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Sky Diver

[ddaryl]

I had hope for JP and EJ (etc....) but since I've seen so many failures I have little hope and just want to actually see success. This is what 20+ years of inept ability to address the QB position does to a person. I will jump on the Allen bandwagon when I see he is obviously going to be the answer. Until then I can only sit back and wait for the baby to be shown

[mjt328]

Back in 2004, we still had Drew Bledsoe.  There wasn't a feeling of total desperation for us to draft a QB.  Because of that, the move-up for JP Losman was a pretty big surprise, and I don't think people had a great handle on him as a player - at least compared to today, where fans watch hours of online videos to prep themselves.

I recall there were a lot of Brett Favre comparisons with JP Losman, and everyone kept saying how bad Green Bay wanted to draft him.  So even though we was a little bit of a reach (most figured early 2nd Round), I think most fans convinced themselves it was a smart move.

 

With EJ Manuel in 2013, I think most fans were just happy to see the Bills take a CHANCE ON SOMEONE.  Buddy Nix had let three years pass by without drafting anyone, seemingly content with Ryan Fitzpatrick as his QB.  Most fans didn't care if we had to reach.

Before the draft, there were lots of warnings on how terrible the QB class was going to be.  But the Bills had really backed themselves into a corner.  There were lots of rumors that Doug Marrone wanted to draft Ryan Nassib at #8 overall, which really freaked some of us out (he ultimately went in the 4th Round).  At least with Manuel, there were supposedly teams interested in taking him at the end of Round 1 or beginning of Round 2.  After the pick was over, there was some relief that we didn't pick Nassib, some frustration we didn't take Geno Smith and mixed feelings on Manuel overall.

 

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Back in 2004, we still had Drew Bledsoe.  There wasn't a feeling of total desperation for us to draft a QB.  Because of that, the move-up for JP Losman was a pretty big surprise, and I don't think people had a great handle on him as a player - at least compared to today, where fans watch hours of online videos to prep themselves.

I recall there were a lot of Brett Favre comparisons with JP Losman, and everyone kept saying how bad Green Bay wanted to draft him.  So even though we was a little bit of a reach (most figured early 2nd Round), I think most fans convinced themselves it was a smart move.

 

With EJ Manuel in 2013, I think most fans were just happy to see the Bills take a CHANCE ON SOMEONE.  Buddy Nix had let three years pass by without drafting anyone, seemingly content with Ryan Fitzpatrick as his QB.  Most fans didn't care if we had to reach.

Before the draft, there were lots of warnings on how terrible the QB class was going to be.  But the Bills had really backed themselves into a corner.  There were lots of rumors that Doug Marrone wanted to draft Ryan Nassib at #8 overall, which really freaked some of us out (he ultimately went in the 4th Round).  At least with Manuel, there were supposedly teams interested in taking him at the end of Round 1 or beginning of Round 2.  After the pick was over, there was some relief that we didn't pick Nassib, some frustration we didn't take Geno Smith and mixed feelings on Manuel overall.

 

 

 

The irony is Fitzpatrick is 2013 was a WAY better player than Bledsoe in 2003. 

[Bills757]

EJ was a late third round pick at best.  It wasn't his fault DW decided to pull the trigger in the first.  Whaley was either going to look like a genius or an idiot for picking him when he did.  We all know how that turned out.

[K-9]

In terms of excitement and anticipation to see our shiny new toys, all three are comparable by that measure. I also share the same concern about footwork and lower body mechanics as all three were/are a train wreck from the waist down at times. All three had/have cannon arms, too. I think JP and EJ were pretty much at their ceilings coming out whereas Allen is just scratching the surface of his development. I suspect he will have a better aptitude for the game, too. 

[C.Biscuit97]

My personal reaction is a million times more negative because of JP and EJ.  I support these guys through and through. I feel like there were fans and media who never gave them a chance from the second they were drafted.  They were put in bad situations and developed poorly here.

 

And while both of their developments were embarrassing here, I obviously overlooked real flaws in their games.  I felt EJ had all the physical and mental abilities to be a great qb but he seemed robotic.  Losman had a lot of tools but he wasn’t liked by his teammates.

 

So when I see the Bills pick a guy who has similar problems as JP and EJ #7 overall, it’s kinda hard to take.  I’ve never seen a player escape blame more than Allen.  It’s not his fault. It’s his oline, receivers, & coaching.  His footwork is fixable (it really gets fixed in the nfl).  He improved in the offseason in shorts.

 

i want Allen to be good but the overwhelming evidence over many years of NFL qbs is it’s really hard for this type of guy to make it.  I was blinded by wanting JP and EJ (who arguably had better college careers than Allen) to be good.  As I’ve gotten older, I just don’t want to blindsided again.  It’s hard for me visioning a scenario where Allen becomes worth the investment.  But I certainly hope I’m wrong because I so badly want us to have found the guy.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

As an old time fan  - GET OFF MY LAWN  with this 3rd or 4th redundant thread about Allen versus past failures?   

 

I'm not trying to be rude.   Use the search function.  From recent activity this will get merged with the many other Allen versus the past QB's 

 

 

/snark 

 

.......hell 'Shady, he could be the next Daryle "Mad Bomber" Lamonica, right??.............

[Sky Diver]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

My personal reaction is a million times more negative because of JP and EJ.  I support these guys through and through. I feel like there were fans and media who never gave them a chance from the second they were drafted.  They were put in bad situations and developed poorly here.

 

And while both of their developments were embarrassing here, I obviously overlooked real flaws in their games.  I felt EJ had all the physical and mental abilities to be a great qb but he seemed robotic.  Losman had a lot of tools but he wasn’t liked by his teammates.

 

So when I see the Bills pick a guy who has similar problems as JP and EJ #7 overall, it’s kinda hard to take.  I’ve never seen a player escape blame more than Allen.  It’s not his fault. It’s his oline, receivers, & coaching.  His footwork is fixable (it really gets fixed in the nfl).  He improved in the offseason in shorts.

 

i want Allen to be good but the overwhelming evidence over many years of NFL qbs is it’s really hard for this type of guy to make it.  I was blinded by wanting JP and EJ (who arguably had better college careers than Allen) to be good.  As I’ve gotten older, I just don’t want to blindsided again.  It’s hard for me visioning a scenario where Allen becomes worth the investment.  But I certainly hope I’m wrong because I so badly want us to have found the guy.

 

Envision harder?

[C.Biscuit97]

45 minutes ago, Bills757 said:

EJ was a late third round pick at best.  It wasn't his fault DW decided to pull the trigger in the first.  Whaley was either going to look like a genius or an idiot for picking him when he did.  We all know how that turned out.

But given his flaws and lack of production, Josh Allen could have been a 3rd round pick too. I compare him to Blaine Gabbert or Christian Hackenberg. 

6 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Envision harder?

I’m really trying!  I want him to be good just like I want every Bills player to be.  I just feel like I’ve seen this movie before and know the ending.

 

and I think they done good things on defense, but I’m not at all sold on their offensive player evaluations.

[Kemp2Warlick]

I had high hopes for Losman...didn't like EJ.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

That goes for every draft pick ever.

exactamundo   

[Ramza86]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But given his flaws and lack of production, Josh Allen could have been a 3rd round pick too. I compare him to Blaine Gabbert or Christian Hackenberg. 

I’m really trying!  I want him to be good just like I want every Bills player to be.  I just feel like I’ve seen this movie before and know the ending.

 

and I think they done good things on defense, but I’m not at all sold on their offensive player evaluations.

 

Hmmmm....I think you have to toss the production in the backseat. Pretty poor team he played for. 

 

I hear some knocks about anticipation from media...but then they dont show him missing a guy running a seam wide open with his hand out. 

 

Not to mention he made some very nice throws in the Senior Bowl with better competition. I think he played with sorry players and that made him look bad. 

 

You can tell Josh is trying to make the right throw.

He doesnt seem to abandon the pocket early many times. Its usually the line's failure that makes him run. 

 

I think if youre gonna take anyone as a project QB with high hopes of success its this guy. 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

16 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.......hell 'Shady, he could be the next Daryle "Mad Bomber" Lamonica, right??.............

Could be.!! 

 

as for the snark 

 

He man,  I gots a reputation to protect       

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it is much more likely Allen succeeds than either of those 2. Multiple NFL teams had Allen at the top of their board in a great QB draft. Losman was thought of as a reach in 2004 (although not a massive one). He would have been like taking Rudolph at 22. He was down a tier (at least) from the top. EJ was considered a total project in arguably the worst QB draft ever. If he were in this class he may very well have been a day 3 pick. All 3 had obvious deficiencies but Allen is certainly would have been considered the best of the 3 at this juncture.

 

Very good point.

 

It's also important to recognize the higher level of scrutiny that players face today.

 

Back when Losman was picked, the NFL Draft started on ESPN early Saturday morning.  Unless you were a college football fanatic, your only source for "feedback" on a prospect was Mel Kiper.  You watched his "Big Board" and then waited to see his reaction on your team's pick.

 

Today, the NFL Draft is nearly 3 months of build-up, leading to a primetime event on multiple channels.  There are thousands of "experts" with thoughts on prospects.  Anyone with an internet connection can pour over hours of game film and YouTube videos, and gain their own opinion on a player.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Ramza86 said:

 

Hmmmm....I think you have to toss the production in the backseat. Pretty poor team he played for. 

 

I hear some knocks about anticipation from media...but then they dont show him missing a guy running a seam wide open with his hand out. 

 

Not to mention he made some very nice throws in the Senior Bowl with better competition. I think he played with sorry players and that made him look bad. 

 

You can tell Josh is trying to make the right throw.

He doesnt seem to abandon the pocket early many times. Its usually the line's failure that makes him run. 

 

I think if youre gonna take anyone as a project QB with high hopes of success its this guy. 

 

JMO, but teams like the Bills and Browns are the last ones who should take project qbs.  I would feel much better about this if we had Andy Reid or a known qb coach here.  We’re on our 2nd OC in 2 years.

[Bills757]

Being a starting QB in the NFL is hard......like real hard.  With athletes getting faster and the complexities of the defenses, becoming a starter AND performing at a consistently high level is super difficult.  Some people think they know how to evaluate but it's become almost a crap shoot these days.  That's why I laughed at so many posters who said we "just needed to draft a franchise QB next year....blah blah blah".....as if you can pick one up at Walmart on your way home from work.  

 

If Allen's progression is normal, he's gonna suck more than he has success in the beginning.  It's gonna take experience and failure to make him better.  This, of course, is going to be unacceptable for many on this board who will take the first opportunity to bash this kid as a bust, a failure......the wrong guy for Buffalo.  They'll rail on the negatives and won't give him a chance.  But hey, that's their right I guess.  

 

Personally, I think Beane had a pretty solid draft and made some good moves.  Every one of the draft picks has his flaws but from what I can see, they definitely have talent.  It's now in the coaches' hands to get these guys up to speed.  

[Ramza86]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

JMO, but teams like the Bills and Browns are the last ones who should take project qbs.  I would feel much better about this if we had Andy Reid or a known qb coach here.  We’re on our 2nd OC in 2 years.

 

That I can understand. Having the right situation, coach developing the kid is a concern. 

[PromoTheRobot]

The reaction to Allen is the most negative I've ever seen for a Bills draft pick. EJ Manuel was bad to but this is worse.

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

JMO, but teams like the Bills and Browns are the last ones who should take project qbs.  I would feel much better about this if we had Andy Reid or a known qb coach here.  We’re on our 2nd OC in 2 years.

 

All rookie QBs are projects. No one walks into the NFL ready to play. When it looks like they did, it's coaching.

[Sky Diver]

13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But given his flaws and lack of production, Josh Allen could have been a 3rd round pick too. I compare him to Blaine Gabbert or Christian Hackenberg. 

I’m really trying!  I want him to be good just like I want every Bills player to be.  I just feel like I’ve seen this movie before and know the ending.

 

and I think they done good things on defense, but I’m not at all sold on their offensive player evaluations.

 

Dion Dawkins appears to have been a good pick. I suspect Jones will pick up his game this year.

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The reaction to Allen is the most negative I've ever seen for a Bills draft pick. EJ Manuel was bad to but this is worse.

 

All rookie QBs are projects. No one walks into the NFL ready to play. When it looks like they did, it's coaching.

I guess the difference is they traded down and picked EJ.  But I do think that EJ and JP’s flaws definitely make it harder to fall completely in love with Allen.

6 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Dion Dawkins appears to have been a good pick. I suspect Jones will pick up his game this year.

Dawkins is a good pick.  I’m hoping for the best in Zay but I really want JuJu so I was not a huge fan of the pick.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

I didn't know anything about Losman at the time but I was excited because I hated Bledsoe and was excited we were moving on from him. 

 

I was angry about the EJ pick and never once believed he was going to be a successful QB.

 

I'm mixed on Allen. It'll pretty much echo what many people here say, but yeah he makes some exciting plays that many other QB's cant...but what scares me is the easy throws that he's so inconsistent with. I don't care about completion percentage in general, but so much of this game is about efficiency and moving the chains. He won't be able to miss those throws in the NFL and survive. And that's not always "correctable". A lot of those plays we're talking about are all about feel and rhythm and instincts. 

 

That being said, I didn't have a clear cut favorite QB of the Big 5 in this draft. The one that I'll be watching in comparison is the one that was available at our pick last year, Mahomes. I hope we made the right call. 

[corta765]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

For Manuel, most were very happy the Bills had finally moved on from Fitzpatrick and DRAFTED A QB.  There were cautious notes of people saying he had stunk up the joint in college, was only making half field reads and had "slow eyes", which were shushed up quickly.  Most people agreed that he was raw and would have to sit a while and learn (if he could learn) and when Kolb had his epic encounter with the bathmat and he was thrown in then injured, we worried.  There are some similarities, but I think they're really pretty super ficial.

 

Haha my wife and I were at that training camp and all the sudden he's down and the next thing you hear is EJ is starting the whole practice. I actually remember EJ did pretty well that day and a few TD throws he had on 7 v 7 the team went nuts rushing him to celebrate. He was always a good dude I always wished he succeeded but it just wasn't made to be. That said his first season I actually bought it a bit he could be the dude especially until his knee got injured against CLE. After that the coaching staff seemed nervous to move him around and he seemed hesitant himself to move. It just never was in the cards.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, corta765 said:

Haha my wife and I were at that training camp and all the sudden he's down and the next thing you hear is EJ is starting the whole practice. I actually remember EJ did pretty well that day and a few TD throws he had on 7 v 7 the team went nuts rushing him to celebrate. He was always a good dude I always wished he succeeded but it just wasn't made to be. That said his first season I actually bought it a bit he could be the dude especially until his knee got injured against CLE. After that the coaching staff seemed nervous to move him around and he seemed hesitant himself to move. It just never was in the cards.

 

 I know I'm a minority here, but I felt EJ had shown flashes, and that if he were properly developed with a year on the bench, a QB coach who had time to devote to him his rook season (not a QB coach/OC combo) and a proficient vet QB who had made the transition from a spread offense to an NFL offense successfully and could understand where EJ was coming from, he might have had a chance.  I agree that he was at a place where he was "read-(maybe read)-RUN!" and when he took away the "RUN!" part of his game plan he floundered.  Then, it takes an enormous toll on a player's confidence to get benched and treated as EJM did, and it's very hard for them to play well when they first get off of it.

 

I also think he got the "yips" at some point - he was "zip code accurate" at times in college but never "hit the hospitality tent WTF?".   After that he was sunk.

 

People get such a double standard - EJ never threw for 300 yards so you could tell after 4 games that he sucks but AJ McCarron (who has also not thrown for 300 yds in an NFL game)  OK, OK, I know it may not be the same folks but you see my point.
 

54 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The reaction to Allen is the most negative I've ever seen for a Bills draft pick. EJ Manuel was bad to but this is worse.

 

Do you have a theory as to why?

 

54 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

All rookie QBs are projects. No one walks into the NFL ready to play. When it looks like they did, it's coaching.

 

Luck looked like he was ready to play, and he pretty much backed that up on the field.  I don't think they dumbed anything down for him on the offense.

Rosen isn't Luck, but he looks like he's ready to play if he has an OL and good WR.  We'll see what McCoy does with the offense. 

Dalton was actually pretty pro-ready as I recall.

 

Prescott, Wentz, Watson, and earlier, Wilson all had a strong component of scheme/coaching to their early success.

[Shaw66]

I don't have a great recollection, but I think the reaction to Allen has been more vocally negative than to either of the other two.

 

There were people who didn't like the Manuel pick, for sure, but Manuel was generally rated as the first or second best prospect in the draft, with Geno Smith.   Then the Bills traded back in the draft before taking him.   So the reaction of many people was, "good, you got the best QB in the draft and you got an extra pick out of the deal."  

 

JP, many people didn't like him, but he WAS the fifth rated QB in the draft and it was widely expected that he'd go in the bottom of the first or top of the second.   I appreciated Donohoe's aggressiveness in going and getting him.   

 

People like this one less because in terms of draft capital, Allen was much more expensive.   And, I think, people have bought all of the loud and repeated complaints about his accuracy and decision making.   I don't remember the complaining about Manuel being that bad, but in part that was because the Bills didn't spend nearly as much in draft capital, and got change back.   

 

In other words, based on draft capital, the Bills risked more on him than on the others.   I think that magnifies his potential shortcomings.   

 

I'm expecting Allen to be the best QB of the lot five years from now.  I just have enormous confidence in McBeane.   I think they really know what they're doing, and I think they know exactly what they're going to do with Allen.  

[SouthNYfan]

38 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 I know I'm a minority here, but I felt EJ had shown flashes, and that if he were properly developed with a year on the bench, a QB coach who had time to devote to him his rook season (not a QB coach/OC combo) and a proficient vet QB who had made the transition from a spread offense to an NFL offense successfully and could understand where EJ was coming from, he might have had a chance.  I agree that he was at a place where he was "read-(maybe read)-RUN!" and when he took away the "RUN!" part of his game plan he floundered.  Then, it takes an enormous toll on a player's confidence to get benched and treated as EJM did, and it's very hard for them to play well when they first get off of it.

 

I also think he got the "yips" at some point - he was "zip code accurate" at times in college but never "hit the hospitality tent WTF?".   After that he was sunk.

 

People get such a double standard - EJ never threw for 300 yards so you could tell after 4 games that he sucks but AJ McCarron (who has also not thrown for 300 yds in an NFL game)  OK, OK, I know it may not be the same folks but you see my point.
 

 

Do you have a theory as to why?

 

 

Luck looked like he was ready to play, and he pretty much backed that up on the field.  I don't think they dumbed anything down for him on the offense.

Rosen isn't Luck, but he looks like he's ready to play if he has an OL and good WR.  We'll see what McCoy does with the offense. 

Dalton was actually pretty pro-ready as I recall.

 

Prescott, Wentz, Watson, and earlier, Wilson all had a strong component of scheme/coaching to their early success.

 

Even go back as far as Brady.

He wasn't asked to do much early on, and wasn't unleashed for a few years.

Most QBs need their hands held and to be brought along slowly because the nuances and difficulty of the NFL QB position is so much different than say, a RB or linebacker.

[Sky Diver]

58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 I know I'm a minority here, but I felt EJ had shown flashes, and that if he were properly developed with a year on the bench, a QB coach who had time to devote to him his rook season (not a QB coach/OC combo) and a proficient vet QB who had made the transition from a spread offense to an NFL offense successfully and could understand where EJ was coming from, he might have had a chance.  I agree that he was at a place where he was "read-(maybe read)-RUN!" and when he took away the "RUN!" part of his game plan he floundered.  Then, it takes an enormous toll on a player's confidence to get benched and treated as EJM did, and it's very hard for them to play well when they first get off of it.

 

I also think he got the "yips" at some point - he was "zip code accurate" at times in college but never "hit the hospitality tent WTF?".   After that he was sunk.

 

People get such a double standard - EJ never threw for 300 yards so you could tell after 4 games that he sucks but AJ McCarron (who has also not thrown for 300 yds in an NFL game)  OK, OK, I know it may not be the same folks but you see my point.
 

 

Do you have a theory as to why?

 

 

Luck looked like he was ready to play, and he pretty much backed that up on the field.  I don't think they dumbed anything down for him on the offense.

Rosen isn't Luck, but he looks like he's ready to play if he has an OL and good WR.  We'll see what McCoy does with the offense. 

Dalton was actually pretty pro-ready as I recall.

 

Prescott, Wentz, Watson, and earlier, Wilson all had a strong component of scheme/coaching to their early success.

 

McCarron threw for 280 yrds against the Steelers.

[Stanley Lombardi]

When EJ was drafted, I can remember turning (as we all did) to YouTube to get a sense of his abilities.  I was instantly dismayed.  I'll say it like that and leave it at that.

When Allen was drafted, I again turned to YouTube to see what Beane had brought us.  (As you might surmise, I am no college football/draft fanatic.)  The reaction I have to Allen is the polar opposite of the reaction I had to E.J.  This kid has the IT, the WOW, the ways and the means.  

Since then I continue to read (on this most enlightened forum) how he sucks.  I am not seeing, at all, what my more enlightened fellow posters are seeing.

Trusting my own two eyes, I am thankful we have a QB with such possibilities.

[Sky Diver]

3 minutes ago, Blue on Blue said:

When EJ was drafted, I can remember turning (as we all did) to YouTube to get a sense of his abilities.  I was instantly dismayed.  I'll say it like that and leave it at that.

When Allen was drafted, I again turned to YouTube to see what Beane had brought us.  (As you might surmise, I am no college football/draft fanatic.)  The reaction I have to Allen is the polar opposite of the reaction I had to E.J.  This kid has the IT, the WOW, the ways and the means.  

Since then I continue to read (on this most enlightened forum) how he sucks.  I am not seeing, at all, what my more enlightened fellow posters are seeing.

Trusting my own two eyes, I am thankful we have a QB with such possibilities.

 

Too many people just parrot what the pundits say.

I was just glad we didn’t draft Rosen, but now that I have studied Allen, I love the pick. His ceiling is off the charts. Edmunds too. 

[Lfod]

I think the reaction to Josh Allen is next level stuff. Allen is getting trashed more then Tyrod did after 3 years of starting. 

 

Not that I don't understand it. The odds are the haters will be right. I could say Baker Mayfield will bust and most likely be right because the Browns have been terrible. People say the odds against rookie QBs being good is high so it's easy to predict they will bust right? 

 

Although I think the initial hate wave is over and it's calmed down some I think. Only so many times you can hate on the guy before it gets annoying and people start to turn on you.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Lfod