Alonzo Highsmith explains why he flipped from Darnold to Mayfield

[Bing Bong]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Sure - on a Browns message board

Been studying savior pete. I have a great algorithm to offer fiery hot takes at the worst moments.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Kevin Cole, who is one of these PFF type data analysts, talking about it's too early to give grades or badmouth draft picks before seeing these guys play, tweeted,  "If you're at the blackjack table and someone hits on 16 with a 6 showing you don't say, "let's wait to see how the hand plays out before saying it was a bad decision"

 

Ha.

 

Cute, but if profiling a successful NFL QB could be reduced to a series of hard numerical probabilities like blackjack, the success rate would presumably be higher.

 

[major]

5 hours ago, PirateHookerMD said:

As someone nervous about Allen but on the train, I don't love hearing they had him 5th...

The part about allen's people having to make excuses doesn't make me feel any better

[Bing Bong]

4 minutes ago, major said:

The part about allen's people having to make excuses doesn't make me feel any better

No excuses man. He probably sucks. Or he doesn't.Wait until he's in a bills uni.

[Ol Dirty B]

3 hours ago, nbbillsfan said:

 

I don’t think anyonr was afraid of drafting Rosen because he is a “troublemaker”, they were scared off because he is a jerk. If you are phenomenal QB, you can be a jerk and still lead a successful NFL team. But you have to be great; will Rosen be good enough to overcome this, we will find out.

 

Ok got it.

 

So in order to succeed as a jerk, you have to be great. However, if you are perceived as nice, you merely have to be good.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

48 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dude, I dunno what volleyball programs you've been around, but I can't imagine a volleyball program where the coach would tolerate having player boyfriends "around the volleyball team" at the same time the coach is there, trying to coach before, during, or after practice and a game.  Girl would be running extra suicide sprints and dive drills if she tried.  Around the team when they're having a party or something, sure, but the coach isn't there then.  In the stands during a game, sure, but if you know any teenage girls who want their boyfriends spending time with them when they're all sweaty after a hard-fought athletic contest, you know a different set o' teenage volleyball girls than I know.  Leaning forward kiss and maybe a bro-ish kind of hug, I'm all gross meet me after I shower.  Coach might have seen Rosen around the training facilities - the weight room and such - or just be going on casual contact and general rumors. 

 

I could be off, but I think expecting to get useful info out of the coach of another varsity sport or reading something big into it if you don't is just weird.  If the girlfriend was on the team and the coach is cool with it, the girlfriend would be the one to talk to.

 

I agree with the other posters that I think not picking the kid and then tossing him under the bus in an interview is un-called-for and unprofessional - on Highsmith's part.

It very well may be weird - as are some of the questions asked at the combine. As I mentioned, Highsmith has probably asked non-football folks similar questions and has gotten useful info. Seems like an example of how deep the research can go on prospects. 

 

I would say as the star qb, Rosen is known wherever he goes. How many boyfriends do you think the coach can name? 

 

It is interesting to me the depth that some of these guys go to, right or wrong. It kind of blinds them sometimes. There's a mountain of data on Rosen and this exchange is what Highsmith seems to remember as a tipping point?

[nbbillsfan]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Ok got it.

 

So in order to succeed as a jerk, you have to be great. However, if you are perceived as nice, you merely have to be good.

 

Yes, If you are a jerk who historically doesn’t respond well to coaching then you do have to be more talented than a guy who is strong leader and is very coachable in order to succeed. With that being said, there are nearly as many examples of the former as there is of the latter.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

It very well may be weird - as are some of the questions asked at the combine. As I mentioned, Highsmith has probably asked non-football folks similar questions and has gotten useful info. Seems like an example of how deep the research can go on prospects.

 

Goes to show how two folks can look at the same thing and come to different conclusions.

 

I don't think it's an example of how deep the research can go on prospects; I think it's an example of the research being scattershot and shallow as a kiddy pool.

 

34 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

It is interesting to me the depth that some of these guys go to, right or wrong. It kind of blinds them sometimes. There's a mountain of data on Rosen and this exchange is what Highsmith seems to remember as a tipping point?

 

I agree - seems like a weird choice of anecdote, and (to me) illustrates lack of depth and a scattershot approach.

[Adam727]

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think that's a verifiable supposition.  I don't know of any teams who release their draft boards.

Here's what we know:

1) QB were drafted at 1 and 3.  Presumably Allen was lower than the 1st or 2nd QB on those team's boards, but they were able to get their 1st or 2nd choice.

You can't tell whether they thought highly of Allen or not; they might have had him graded top-five, they might have had him in the 3rd round.  Can't tell.

2) Allen was drafted at 7.  No QB were drafted between 3 and 7, but the 3 teams in question either just drafted a QB, just invested $18M in QB salary, or have a franchise QB.

You can conclude that 2 of those teams thought less highly of Allen than of the players they drafted, but they might still have had him high - just not as high as their choice, and also need may have factored into it

3) For the remaining 22 (?) teams, whether or not they thought highly of Allen is a total moot point, since he was off the board.

 

I should have chosen my words better.  "think highly" is inaccurate.  Even a team that has Allen as the 5th QB on their board could still like him. And you're right that we don't know where Allen ranked on most teams' draft boards.  

 

But Cleveland was rumored to be interested at #1, and this article says he was ranked no higher than 5th.  The Jets didn't take him at 3.  Denver was rumored to be interested but passed.  And if Arizona was interested in Allen over Rosen (which I don't think we know one way or the other?) we have since found out they weren't willing to give up a single 2nd round pick to move up for their QB.  (We gave up 2 of them and a Franchise LT)

 

Giving up essentially a franchise LT, the pick we got for Watkins, a #1 pick, a #2 pick, and passing on Watson/Mahomes/Rosen for Allen seems like the kind of mistake that could set this franchise back for a long time.  All I meant to say is that it does not help to hear that the Allen to Cleveland hype was fake, and that Arizona was not willing to give up as much as we thought for whichever QB they were trying to move up for.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Adam727 said:

I should have chosen my words better.  "think highly" is inaccurate.  Even a team that has Allen as the 5th QB on their board could still like him. And you're right that we don't know where Allen ranked on most teams' draft boards.  

 

But Cleveland was rumored to be interested at #1, and this article says he was ranked no higher than 5th.  The Jets didn't take him at 3.  Denver was rumored to be interested but passed.  And if Arizona was interested in Allen over Rosen (which I don't think we know one way or the other?) we have since found out they weren't willing to give up a single 2nd round pick to move up for their QB.  (We gave up 2 of them and a Franchise LT)

 

Giving up essentially a franchise LT, the pick we got for Watkins, a #1 pick, a #2 pick, and passing on Watson/Mahomes/Rosen for Allen seems like the kind of mistake that could set this franchise back for a long time.  All I meant to say is that it does not help to hear that the Allen to Cleveland hype was fake, and that Arizona was not willing to give up as much as we thought for whichever QB they were trying to move up for.  

 

Let me put it this way.  I would not put a lot of stock in post-draft stories of what teams were and weren't willing to do.  Example: it was reported that Buffalo had offered our two 1sts and next years for #2.  Now Beane says next year's first was never on the table.  So which is true?  Who knows?  Why should anyone tell the truth at this point?  Them grapes sure look sour.

 

It's all gamesmanship.  We haven't found out a thing.  Hearing that the Allen to Cleveland hype was fake shouldn't bother you any more than any other pre-draft rumor.

For whatever it's worth, here's another story that says Dorsey kept the QB order under his vest until the morning of the draft by leaving the QB magnets turned vertical at the top of their board and in the order in which they'd made visits.  Then: " Late Thursday morning, about nine hours before the draft, he gathered the senior staff to tell them the order of the quarterbacks, and what he was likely to do with the top pick—take Mayfield. He kept the board covered until early evening, and shortly before the draft began, the room knew the QB order. "    BUT nonetheless - Schefter and King were able to get intel? even though it was so close to his vest?  Wow, if I worked for Dorsey that would give me great morale that somehow King and Schefter know stuff before the staff does.  I'd really feel empowered and respected.  And why make such a big deal of the order of the QB, when that doesn't matter because they have the #1 pick?  It just doesn't ring true - like it's creative drama.

 

Giving a 1st round pick, 2 2nd round picks, and a player is not a huge haul for a true franchise QB.   The question, as always, is: "is this guy Truth?  or is he not-all-that?

[BillsFan17]

Like I said on Twitter. This team is 1-31 over the last two seasons. You can tell me all you want about their FO changes, our FO ended a 17 year playoff drought their first year on the job.

 

Moreover, Beane was part of of the process in drafting Newton. Ya know,  former league MVP.

 

I'm inclined to believe Beanes board over the Browns board.

[cd1]

9 hours ago, PirateHookerMD said:

As someone nervous about Allen but on the train, I don't love hearing they had him 5th...

 

Who knows maybe Highsmith talked to Allen's ninth grade girlfriend that was still mad at him...  ;-)

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I can tell you this...I know people who know Rosen personally, not one of them says anything positive about him as a person.  They all say the same thing, he is a total deuche and has been for years.  And they know even more people who know him and again say the same thing.  There are a lot of people who just flat out don't like him, and its a pretty well known thing here around LA.  

 

Thats my issue with his character.  He's a fake tough guy competitor.  He sulks when he doesnt get his way.  Even in his post draft comments he talked about how he was mad he didnt go in top 3 then tuned out the rest of the draft with plans to fake a smile.  He's mentally weak, self absorbed, and seems to care more about himself than his teammates.  Baker on the other hand is a true fiery competitor that people rally behind.  

 

Who knows what happens in the future, but I felt Baker was the best QB prospect in the draft, and Rosen would be the last of the big 4 drafted.  And in the end, thats what happened. But none of it matters at all anymore, all that matters is how these guys do on the field.  And while Rosen reminds me more of Jeff George, Jay Cutler, and Ryan Leaf in terms of his personality and mental make up, it doesn't mean I am right about it.  But its concerning when so many people are turned off by him and teams need to research how to "manage" his personality and "get through" to him.  

 

I think the biggest risk with his personality is how he will handle the inevitable adversity he will face as a young player.  I dont have much confidence he will do well with it.  

 

 

....thanks  bud for sharing........his post draft, sulking hissy fit brought out his true colors......putz............bet his teammates can't wait to meet him at the airport......he'll be the one on the VERY high horse wearing a crown..........

[BuffaloRush]

Shouldn’t this thread be moved?

[BringBackFergy]

[Fadingpain]

This whole conversation hinges on the comments made by Alonzo Highsmith.

 

Dude is an ex-football player/boxer who probably majored in basket weaving or cocaine intake at U. Miami.

 

You think he is a great reader of men/judge of character/insightful thinker?

 

Maybe.  Maybe not.

 

It's hilarious to me how pro sports organizations rely on athletes to do these jobs.

 

Just saw little piece about Brendan Shanahan announcing Lamarillo won't be back as GM with the Leafs.

 

Photo show Shanahan with glasses on wearing a suit up in a box at a game.  Makes me laugh out loud.

 

Guy was playing in the NHL as an 18 year and has no formal education to speak of.

Now he's running the Leafs organization.   LOL.

 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

Browns media / FO putting the spin cycle hard on Baker vs Darnold. MCK had a headline that “half the teams in the league had Baker #1”. Turns out she talked to 12 teams, supposedly 4 told her they had Baker #1 and she had a hunch 2 others did too. 

 

This is exactly the thing I can’t stand about the Browns org. If any organization should be quiet and humble it’s the Browns. Yet they get a hint of success and they thump their chest and take credit for inventing football. 

[eball]

12 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

 Not to mention that it was a fact that Kelly, Thurman, Andre and Bruce were all douches and egomaniacs coming out of college and well into their careers.

 

Truth.  All that really matters is what you can do on the field.

[GaryPinC]

6 hours ago, major said:

The part about allen's people having to make excuses doesn't make me feel any better

It bothered me also and is a valid criticism.  I can't think of another top draft QB whose proponents used this excuse.

When Allen said to look at the film not the stats, I had to laugh.  Yea dude, I did look.  You made some great  passes on film, but all the over throws, poor placement, and poor decisions still back up your stats.

 

I thought his receivers were solid.  There were some drops I'd expect when a rocket armed qb has accuracy issues but they seemed very reliable otherwise.

[berg1029]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I know, right? 

 

" Highsmith did lots of traveling to prepare for the draft. “I was at an airport,” he said. “UCLA’s volleyball team was in front of me. You heard so much about Rosen. He’s this or that. We all know how people talk. “So I asked one of the volleyball coaches, ‘What’s Rosen like?’ He said, ‘Aaaaa, you should probably ask his girlfriend. She’s one of the players. She’s over there.’ “I’m like, ‘All right coach. That’s good enough.’ “I don’t know what all this means, but there was something about him that bothered me.”

 

Literally "something about him that bothered me".  If this is the best effort of a high-level NFL FO scouting executive, the "right hand man" to the GM, I gotta say I'm kind of under-impressed here.  Maybe it's a good thing for Green Bay that Dorsey "lured him away"

 

Nothing wrong with trusting your instincts on a player, IMO.  He's only getting flak because he publicly admitted to it.  If you're deciding who to draft with the number one pick, wouldn't you trust your instincts about possible draft picks?  It's not always about just about the numbers