Ramza86 Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Im trying to understand what people expect from Josh Allen. Im looking at past years QBs. Do you see any of this years QB draft class better than previous years? These guys are the hits...and I use that term loosely. So we draft one QB in the 1st round and we expect him to be a top 5 QB? Lets be realistic. Youre not gonna get Brady or Rodgers. Itd be a freakin miracle if any of these guys even got to the level of an Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers. It really is a crap shoot guys. Lets just hope a QB can start for us and be good enough to contend in the playoffs. Notable 2016 QBs: - Carson Wentz - Jared Goff - Dak Prescott I dont think much of Dak and I think Jared had a decent year last year. Nothing grand. Wentz and Goff were twice the prospects of this years class. So logically you wont see a QB better than Goff from this class. Notable 2015 QBs: - Jameis Winston - Marcus Mariotta Same thing here. If you drafted a QB in 2018. Youre praying they could at least get somewhere near their level. Notable 2014 QBs: - Blake Bortles - Derek Carr - Jimmy G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 I see none that are HOF. One solid starter, 2 decent starters and 3 that don't make it. I lumped the top 6 together as I didn't see that much difference. Now, which are which? Damned if I know. I hope Allen is the solid guy, but maybe not. I'm not even sure the best QB drafted this week winds up one of these 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessYaDigg Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Watch, because we've been screwing this up for so many years, I've got a feeling that Lamar Jackson and Mason Rudolph are gonna be the 2 best QBs of this draft class. That's just the luck that we have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted April 29, 2018 Author Share Posted April 29, 2018 Just now, Circlethewagon8404 said: Watch, because we've been screwing this up for so many years, I've got a feeling that Lamar Jackson and Mason Rudolph are gonna be the 2 best QBs of this draft class. That's just the luck that we have. So let me ask you this? Them being the best two QBs this draft....puts them where in the league? 20-32? This is kinda the point im making. Most likely these guys will be middle of the pack. Maybe one stands out if they are lucky. Not only do you have to be a good QB, but you have to be in the perfect situation. The odds are stacked against anyone getting a great franchise QB. Lots of luck involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 i expect josh allen to work hard. i expect there to be a learning curve. i expect the coaching staff to not rush this guy, to put him in when he is ready. i expect a lot of ups and downs when he finally gets in there. but my hope is that he turns into a great qb. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Regular attendance, dedicated S&C work and close observation of how pros prepare. After that, anything else would be gravy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 16 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: Im trying to understand what people expect from Josh Allen. Im looking at past years QBs. Do you see any of this years QB draft class better than previous years? These guys are the hits...and I use that term loosely. So we draft one QB in the 1st round and we expect him to be a top 5 QB? Lets be realistic. Youre not gonna get Brady or Rodgers. Itd be a freakin miracle if any of these guys even got to the level of an Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers. It really is a crap shoot guys. Lets just hope a QB can start for us and be good enough to contend in the playoffs. Notable 2016 QBs: - Carson Wentz - Jared Goff - Dak Prescott I dont think much of Dak and I think Jared had a decent year last year. Nothing grand. Wentz and Goff were twice the prospects of this years class. So logically you wont see a QB better than Goff from this class. Notable 2015 QBs: - Jameis Winston - Marcus Mariotta Same thing here. If you drafted a QB in 2018. Youre praying they could at least get somewhere near their level. Notable 2014 QBs: - Blake Bortles - Derek Carr - Jimmy G Well NFL puts up draft grades for each prospect prior to the draft: Jared Goff 6.51 Carson Wentz 6.53 Sam Darnold 7.00 Josh Rosen 6.19 Baker Mayfield 6.04 Lamar Jackson 5.91 Josh Allen 5.90 Bortles was a 6.22 Jared had a "decent year last year, nothing grand" ? The offense he directed led the league in scoring, yes #1 in scoring. He had 3800+ yards, 28 td, 7 int, and 1 rushing TD. 62.1% comp 11-4 record #10 in yards (while being #18 in attempts) #7 in TD #4 in TD% #2 in Y/A and AY/A #2 in NY/A and #1 in ANY/A He had a pretty damn good year. Any team in the league would be happy with that. Wentz was going to win MVP prior to tearing his ACL and missing the last 3 games. Just average seasons though, right? Come on dude. I'm not saying any of this year's crop is going to be all time greats, but they are all very good prospects. I wouldn't be surprised to see all 4 make pro bowls in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Mayfield will be a Top 10 QB. Allen will end up a backup, somewhere. The others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted April 29, 2018 Author Share Posted April 29, 2018 10 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Well NFL puts up draft grades for each prospect prior to the draft: Jared Goff 6.51 Carson Wentz 6.53 Sam Darnold 7.00 Josh Rosen 6.19 Baker Mayfield 6.04 Lamar Jackson 5.91 Josh Allen 5.90 Bortles was a 6.22 Jared had a "decent year last year, nothing grand" ? The offense he directed led the league in scoring, yes #1 in scoring. He had 3800+ yards, 28 td, 7 int, and 1 rushing TD. 62.1% comp 11-4 record #10 in yards (while being #18 in attempts) #7 in TD #4 in TD% #2 in Y/A and AY/A #2 in NY/A and #1 in ANY/A He had a pretty damn good year. Any team in the league would be happy with that. Wentz was going to win MVP prior to tearing his ACL and missing the last 3 games. Just average seasons though, right? Come on dude. I'm not saying any of this year's crop is going to be all time greats, but they are all very good prospects. I wouldn't be surprised to see all 4 make pro bowls in the near future. I never said Wentz wasnt good. Hes the one guy I think is going to be a top QB. Did you actually watch Goff play? As a betting man im going to say you didnt. I had him and Gurley in one of my fantasy leagues. So I watched a good chunk of his games. You can toss whatever stats you want out....but I can tell you Goff was middle of the pack at best this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan of St Augustine Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 32 minutes ago, swnybillsfan said: i expect josh allen to work hard. i expect there to be a learning curve. i expect the coaching staff to not rush this guy, to put him in when he is ready. i expect a lot of ups and downs when he finally gets in there. but my hope is that he turns into a great qb. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Fan in LA Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 I think Rosen has Hall of Fame potential. I watched the UCLA vs USC game at the end of last season, and Rosen looked good enough to start in the NFL. He reads defenses quickly, he's accurate, and he has a ton of confidence. He reminds me of Joe Namath. I'm not sure why we picked Allen. His faults are he throws late and he has accuracy issues. That sounds like he has trouble reading defenses, and he has accuracy issues. Wasn't that the problem with Tyrod Taylor, and EJ Manuel, and JP Losman ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epstein's Mother Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, B Fan in LA said: I think Rosen has Hall of Fame potential. I watched the UCLA vs USC game at the end of last season, and Rosen looked good enough to start in the NFL. He reads defenses quickly, he's accurate, and he has a ton of confidence. He reminds me of Joe Namath. Do you mean the Joe Namath that won less than half of his games as a starting QB, the one that threw nearly 50 more int's than TD's in his career or the one that had a great 2 game run to the Super Bowl that got him into the HOF(by the way, only 3 playoff games in his career)? Edited April 30, 2018 by Epstein's Mother 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albwan Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Circlethewagon8404 said: Watch, because we've been screwing this up for so many years, I've got a feeling that Lamar Jackson and Mason Rudolph are gonna be the 2 best QBs of this draft class. That's just the luck that we have. Which time are you talking about, ej the projected 3rd rounder reached for, or jp ... screwing up 2 times in 20 ish yrs WOW had enough of the dumpster diving technique trying to get a qb. Oh, i almost forgot. I expect a super bowl, what else? Edited April 29, 2018 by Albwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I'm excited about the Allen pick. He may very well bust, but the kid is really smart, works hard, he's tall, he can run, and he has an absolute howitzer. I think a lot of the criticism is uninformed dribble, especially regarding his accuracy, which everyone seems to think is determined entirely by his completion percentage. When I watch him play, I see a gamer with incredible athletic skills who can put the ball anywhere it needs to go. This kid's ceiling is scary, and I do think he has it in him to reach it. The biggest risk I see is The Bills O-line. It's a big question mark right now, and if they stink, it's going to be tough on the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 30 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: I never said Wentz wasnt good. Hes the one guy I think is going to be a top QB. Did you actually watch Goff play? As a betting man im going to say you didnt. I had him and Gurley in one of my fantasy leagues. So I watched a good chunk of his games. You can toss whatever stats you want out....but I can tell you Goff was middle of the pack at best this year. If you think Jared Goff's season last year was "middle of the pack at best" then you clearly have zero idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessYaDigg Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, Albwan said: Which time are you talking about, ej the projected 3rd rounder reached for, or jp ... screwing up 2 times in 20 ish yrs WOW had enough of the dumpster diving technique trying to get a qb. Oh, i almost forgot. I expect a super bowl, what else? Because you're not thinking outside the box, let me paint the picture for you. When I said that we've screwed this up so many times, i'm not talking about the QBs we did take. I'm talking about the ones we had chances to take but went a different direction. Over the years, we could've taken guys like Dak, Mahomes, Deshaun, Teddy Bridgewater, Derek Carr, Jimmy G, Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins. And let's not forget that we had an opportunity to draft Aaron freaking Rodgers. But we dealt away our 1st rounder that year. So yes, we made mistakes. Now these mistakes are unpredictable, but could've been avoided. As much as I love Tre White, I think we could've been a lot better if we would've drafted Watson last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Fan in LA Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, skibum said: The biggest risk I see is The Bills O-line. It's a big question mark right now, and if they stink, it's going to be tough on the kid. That's the one good reason for taking Allen over Rosen. If the O-Line stinks, and it probably will, Rosen would get disgusted and be a problem. Allen might be smart in some capacity, but he's clearly not smart like Rosen, and that's an advantage for us. We need a kid with a heart and soul, who can take a punch, and learn from his mistakes. I'm also looking forward to the competition for the starting job between these 3 QB's on our roster. Certainly a lot better than the competition that Tyrod won 4 years ago, against Jeff Tuel, Thad Lewis, and EJ Manuel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 31 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: If you think Jared Goff's season last year was "middle of the pack at best" then you clearly have zero idea what you are talking about. I do. And it was. I suggest you go back and watch the games and compare it with the rest of the QBs this year. Youll see middle of the pack. I promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: I do. And it was. I suggest you go back and watch the games and compare it with the rest of the QBs this year. Youll see middle of the pack. I promise. I've seen enough of it. He wasn't "middle of the pack". Stop exaggerating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) Opie. Your assumptions on player ability/ potential are just flat out wrong. /Thread Edited April 30, 2018 by Carter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, SouthNYfan said: Well NFL puts up draft grades for each prospect prior to the draft: Jared Goff 6.51 Carson Wentz 6.53 Sam Darnold 7.00 Josh Rosen 6.19 Baker Mayfield 6.04 Lamar Jackson 5.91 Josh Allen 5.90 Bortles was a 6.22 Jared had a "decent year last year, nothing grand" ? The offense he directed led the league in scoring, yes #1 in scoring. He had 3800+ yards, 28 td, 7 int, and 1 rushing TD. 62.1% comp 11-4 record #10 in yards (while being #18 in attempts) #7 in TD #4 in TD% #2 in Y/A and AY/A #2 in NY/A and #1 in ANY/A He had a pretty damn good year. Any team in the league would be happy with that. Wentz was going to win MVP prior to tearing his ACL and missing the last 3 games. Just average seasons though, right? Come on dude. I'm not saying any of this year's crop is going to be all time greats, but they are all very good prospects. I wouldn't be surprised to see all 4 make pro bowls in the near future. NFL puts up draft grades? No they don’t as each team has their own draft grades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: I've seen enough of it. He wasn't "middle of the pack". Stop exaggerating. You havent. Ill be more positive and say just a tad over middle of the pack. According to your stats. Goff threw for what 3800 hundred yards and 28 TDs? Do you happen to know how many receiving yards, receptions and TDs Todd Gurley had? almost 65 receptions, almost 800 yards and 6 touchdowns. Now look, ill never take away making the right throw. Sometimes you gotta toss is to the back, screen pass, check whatever....and I do remember a couple of very nice throws to Gurley. So some of those yards you can chalk up to good QB play. Thats a huge chunk of Goffs statistics. Now throwing to an RB isnt something only top tier QBs can do. Stats give you a general idea...but they dont show you the whole story. He wasnt as good as you picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaenon Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Ramza86 said: Im trying to understand what people expect from Josh Allen. Im looking at past years QBs. Do you see any of this years QB draft class better than previous years? These guys are the hits...and I use that term loosely. So we draft one QB in the 1st round and we expect him to be a top 5 QB? Lets be realistic. Youre not gonna get Brady or Rodgers. Itd be a freakin miracle if any of these guys even got to the level of an Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers. It really is a crap shoot guys. Lets just hope a QB can start for us and be good enough to contend in the playoffs. Notable 2016 QBs: - Carson Wentz - Jared Goff - Dak Prescott I dont think much of Dak and I think Jared had a decent year last year. Nothing grand. Wentz and Goff were twice the prospects of this years class. So logically you wont see a QB better than Goff from this class. Notable 2015 QBs: - Jameis Winston - Marcus Mariotta Same thing here. If you drafted a QB in 2018. Youre praying they could at least get somewhere near their level. Notable 2014 QBs: - Blake Bortles - Derek Carr - Jimmy G I'll tell you what. Tremaine Edmunds is absurdly good. I am so ecstatic we got him at #16, and we got Allen? My goodness what a draft. Also, I really like Harrison Phillips - he plays a lot like Kyle and has some of the same swim and rip moves on pass rush technique. Plusnalsona stout run defender, very intelligent and pretty instinctive. Can't tell you I've ever felt this good about our first three picks. We are very lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Carter said: Opie. Your assumptions on payer ability/ potential are just flat out wrong. /Thread Well there ya have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: You havent. Ill be more positive and say just a tad over middle of the pack. According to your stats. Goff threw for what 3800 hundred yards and 28 TDs? Do you happen to know how many receiving yards, receptions and TDs Todd Gurley had? almost 65 receptions, almost 800 yards and 6 touchdowns. Now look, ill never take away making the right throw. Sometimes you gotta toss is to the back, screen pass, check whatever....and I do remember a couple of very nice throws to Gurley. So some of those yards you can chalk up to good QB play. Thats a huge chunk of Goffs statistics. Now throwing to an RB isnt something only top tier QBs can do. Stats give you a general idea...but they dont show you the whole story. He wasnt as good as you picture. yes I know all about how good Gurley's season was. drew brees had 386 completions for 4334 total passing yards alvin kamara had 81 receptions and 826 receiving yards mark ingram had 58 receptions and 416 receiving yards that means 139 receptions and 1242 of his passing yards went to the 2 running backs that equates to 36% of his completions and 28.7% of his total passing yards jared goff had 296 completions for 3804 total passing yards todd gurley had 64 receptions for 788 receiving yards malcolm brown had 9 receptions for 53 yards that equates to 24.6% of his completions and 22.1% of his total passing yards tom brady had 385 completions and 4577 yards passing james white 56 receptions 429 yards rex burkhead 30 receptions 254 yards dion lewis 32 receptions for 212 yards total of to 118 receptions and 895 yards went to RBs that equates to 30.6% of completions and 19.55% of his total passing yards I guess Drew Brees or Tom Brady (you know, the MVP), werent as good as anybody pictures either, since they had an even larger chunks of completions, with Brees having a significantly higher % of yards, and Brady's yards being roughly equivalent to their RBs. 27 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: NFL puts up draft grades? No they don’t as each team has their own draft grades. Yes. NFL.com does. https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects feel free to look at them. 30 minutes ago, Carter said: Opie. Your assumptions on payer ability/ potential are just flat out wrong. /Thread yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: yes I know all about how good Gurley's season was. drew brees had 386 completions for 4334 total passing yards alvin kamara had 81 receptions and 826 receiving yards mark ingram had 58 receptions and 416 receiving yards that means 139 receptions and 1242 of his passing yards went to the 2 running backs that equates to 36% of his completions and 28.7% of his total passing yards jared goff had 296 completions for 3804 total passing yards todd gurley had 64 receptions for 788 receiving yards malcolm brown had 9 receptions for 53 yards that equates to 24.6% of his completions and 22.1% of his total passing yards tom brady had 385 completions and 4577 yards passing james white 56 receptions 429 yards rex burkhead 30 receptions 254 yards dion lewis 32 receptions for 212 yards total of to 118 receptions and 895 yards went to RBs that equates to 30.6% of completions and 19.55% of his total passing yards I guess Drew Brees or Tom Brady (you know, the MVP), werent as good as anybody pictures either, since they had an even larger chunks of completions, with Brees having a significantly higher % of yards, and Brady's yards being roughly equivalent to their RBs. Good point. Glad to see you saw some football this year. Brees didnt have to be the QB hes been the last 10 years. Hes very fortunate to have a rushing attack and alvin kamara. Like I said there is nothing wrong with throwing to the RB. But thats not what makes you a top tier QB. Goff is not a Tier 1 or 2 QB. Number 1 in attempts. Tom Brady. Number 18 in attempts. Jared Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Ramza86 said: I never said Wentz wasnt good. Hes the one guy I think is going to be a top QB. Did you actually watch Goff play? As a betting man im going to say you didnt. I had him and Gurley in one of my fantasy leagues. So I watched a good chunk of his games. You can toss whatever stats you want out....but I can tell you Goff was middle of the pack at best this year. Second year as a starter and head and shoulders better than anything we had. He's just going to get better and better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I’d like to see production from the Defensive players and the O line pickup. Id like to have see Josh Allen sit and learn for the season or until AJ proves he’s not going to work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: Good point. Glad to see you saw some football this year. Brees didnt have to be the QB hes been the last 10 years. Hes very fortunate to have a rushing attack and alvin kamara. Like I said there is nothing wrong with throwing to the RB. But thats not what makes you a top tier QB. Goff is not a Tier 1 or 2 QB. Number 1 in attempts. Tom Brady. Number 18 in attempts. Jared Goff. So who is better than him in football then? (I'll discuss more I'm just gonna shower) Edited April 30, 2018 by SouthNYfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ramza86 said: Im trying to understand what people expect from Josh Allen. Im looking at past years QBs. Do you see any of this years QB draft class better than previous years? These guys are the hits...and I use that term loosely. So we draft one QB in the 1st round and we expect him to be a top 5 QB? Lets be realistic. Youre not gonna get Brady or Rodgers. Itd be a freakin miracle if any of these guys even got to the level of an Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers. It really is a crap shoot guys. Lets just hope a QB can start for us and be good enough to contend in the playoffs. Notable 2016 QBs: - Carson Wentz - Jared Goff - Dak Prescott I dont think much of Dak and I think Jared had a decent year last year. Nothing grand. Wentz and Goff were twice the prospects of this years class. So logically you wont see a QB better than Goff from this class. Notable 2015 QBs: - Jameis Winston - Marcus Mariotta Same thing here. If you drafted a QB in 2018. Youre praying they could at least get somewhere near their level. Notable 2014 QBs: - Blake Bortles - Derek Carr - Jimmy G Feeling that Goff and Went were better prospects than this year's class is poor remembrance. At the time they weren't. This year's class is generally considered better than that year's class. Wentz wildly over-achieved and Goff too, to a lesser degree. What you're being isn't realistic. It's pure guesstimation. The fact is we just don't know. But going into the draft this was considered the best QB draft in many years. A guy or two will over-achieve. A guy or three will under-achieve and the rest will do somewhere near what they expect. That's best guess. 1 hour ago, Ramza86 said: Good point. Glad to see you saw some football this year. Brees didnt have to be the QB hes been the last 10 years. Hes very fortunate to have a rushing attack and alvin kamara. Like I said there is nothing wrong with throwing to the RB. But thats not what makes you a top tier QB. Goff is not a Tier 1 or 2 QB. Number 1 in attempts. Tom Brady. Number 18 in attempts. Jared Goff. So fewer attempts means nothing in this argument. You're the one who brought up percentage of passes to the RBs, and he correctly pointed out that that's the way a lot of the NFL is these days. Fewer attempts has nothing to do with it. Brady and Brees and a bunch of others threw a high percentage of short passes to RBs. And Goff didn't get an 8.0 YPA from throwing only to the RBs. Fair enough that Goff isn't quite a top ten guy yet. It was his second freaking year. His prospects are very good indeed. Edited April 30, 2018 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Ideally , I want Allen and the rest of the picks to work out. Realistically, a draft will probably produce two or three good players. The players with the best chances for success imo are Edmunds, Phillips and Teller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 5 hours ago, B Fan in LA said: I think Rosen has Hall of Fame potential. I watched the UCLA vs USC game at the end of last season, and Rosen looked good enough to start in the NFL. He reads defenses quickly, he's accurate, and he has a ton of confidence. He reminds me of Joe Namath. I'm not sure why we picked Allen. His faults are he throws late and he has accuracy issues. That sounds like he has trouble reading defenses, and he has accuracy issues. Wasn't that the problem with Tyrod Taylor, and EJ Manuel, and JP Losman ? Word Is; Allen processes slowly, has slow eyes. Sound familiar???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Ramza86 said: I do. And it was. I suggest you go back and watch the games and compare it with the rest of the QBs this year. Youll see middle of the pack. I promise. You don't and he isn't... Goff was 10th in the league with 3,804 yards passing, Tied for 5th in the league with 28 TD passes, 5th in the league with a 100.5 QB rating, none of those stats are middle of the pack, he was a top tier QB in the league last season, please if you're going to knock players at least take 30 seconds to check to see what you're spewing is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) Mayfield will be the cream of the crop. I expect Cleveland to become a powerhouse in very short order if they can get their act together upstairs. After Roethlisberger retires the division is going to open right up. I think Harbaugh gets fired from BAL in the next two years if they don't make a push. The New GM won't have any reason to tie his horse to Flacco or Jackson. Cinci is a mess and will have a new coach. Rudolph will be very good. If he can improve his arm strength he'll be elite. Rosen is the second coming of Jay Cutler. I expect him to hang around a long time, barring injury but I don't see him becoming a superstar. That Arizona team is going to look worlds different in the next 2 years. I expect Darnold to follow a similar path to Rosen. I think he's likely a franchise guy, but the dangerous type like a Dalton. Not good enough to carry the team, not bad enough to ever get rid of. I expect Allen to be out of the league in 3 years or less. They're going to ask a rocket armed thrower to greatly improve his accuracy, which outside of Favre has never happened in the NFL. Could he put it together and become a Hall of Famer? Sure, why not. I'm laying odds against it and taking all bets. Hopefully he'll become pals with JaMarcus Russel and they can hang out at the park throwing 65 yard bombs to one another on one knee. Everyone needs a friend. I'm not sure Lamar Jackson ever gets a meaningful shot at starting reps in his career. Expecting him to follow a Paxton Lynch route. If he does get a crack, I doubt he'll put together a winning season in his career. He should try to become the first professional college QB. Edited April 30, 2018 by BullBuchanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ramza86 said: Im trying to understand what people expect from Josh Allen. Im looking at past years QBs. Do you see any of this years QB draft class better than previous years? These guys are the hits...and I use that term loosely. So we draft one QB in the 1st round and we expect him to be a top 5 QB? Lets be realistic. Youre not gonna get Brady or Rodgers. Itd be a freakin miracle if any of these guys even got to the level of an Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers. It really is a crap shoot guys. Lets just hope a QB can start for us and be good enough to contend in the playoffs. Notable 2016 QBs: - Carson Wentz - Jared Goff - Dak Prescott I dont think much of Dak and I think Jared had a decent year last year. Nothing grand. Wentz and Goff were twice the prospects of this years class. So logically you wont see a QB better than Goff from this class. Notable 2015 QBs: - Jameis Winston - Marcus Mariotta Same thing here. If you drafted a QB in 2018. Youre praying they could at least get somewhere near their level. Notable 2014 QBs: - Blake Bortles - Derek Carr - Jimmy G So far we know very little about all of those guys you mentioned. It's going to take some years to know, so discussing this is useless. The only guy I could even flirt with saying will become an elite QB is Wentz, but it is still too soon to know for him too. But some of these guys have had very good seasons. Prescott had a great season, then declined the next. Wentz had an MVP type season, then got hurt. Goff had a great season (after his terrible first season where everyone called him a bust). Carr had a great season before getting hurt and the next year had a down year. So we'll wait and see. EDIT: Reading though this thread some more I can see you have been proven soundly wrong. Do yourself a favor and stop digging yourself into a hole. Just accept that you are wrong. Edited April 30, 2018 by MJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: So who is better than him in football then? (I'll discuss more I'm just gonna shower) Qbs I will take this season over Goff Brady Rodgers Big Ben Brees Wentz Wilson Ryan Stafford Luck Rivers Manning These without a doubt. The rest below I think are where Goff could make a case for Newton Mariota Winston Watson A Smith Carr Cousins Goff So at bessst....he could be 12. Id take Mariota, Cousins and Newton over him. So that puts him pretty much at 15-16. Thats middle of the pack to me. Im not saying hes bad. I think he had a decent season and he could have a better one this year. Lets not act like hes some of elite QB. Thats what im saying. Edited April 30, 2018 by Ramza86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Ramza86 said: You can toss whatever stats you want out....but I can tell you Goff was middle of the pack at best this year. I don't disagree with your rankings over who has had better proven seasons, but my biggest argument was that you said his season last year was "middle of the pack at best" He had a better season that a good chunk of the tier one guys on that list. Many of those tier one guys are retiring soon(or coming off a huge injury in luck's case). Most of the tier one guys are on the tail end of their careers, and if their GM called and said "I'll trade you X for Goff straight up" the Rams GM would hang up on them laughing. 16 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: Qbs I will take this season over Goff Brady Rodgers Big Ben Brees Wentz Wilson Ryan Stafford Luck Rivers Manning These without a doubt. The rest below I think are where Goff could make a case for Newton Mariota Winston Watson A Smith Carr Cousins Goff So at bessst....he could be 12. Id take Mariota, Cousins and Newton over him. So that puts him pretty much at 15-16. Thats middle of the pack to me. Im not saying hes bad. I think he had a decent season and he could have a better one this year. Lets not act like hes some of elite QB. Thats what im saying. 6 of your top 11 will be gone within 2-3 seasons Luck and Wentz had season ending inures. So other than Wentz, the Rams wouldn't trade Goff for any of the bolded guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: I don't disagree with your rankings over who has had better proven seasons, but my biggest argument was that you said his season last year was "middle of the pack at best" He had a better season that a good chunk of the tier one guys on that list. Many of those tier one guys are retiring soon(or coming off a huge injury in luck's case). Most of the tier one guys are on the tail end of their careers, and if their GM called and said "I'll trade you X for Goff straight up" the Rams GM would hang up on them laughing. 6 of your top 11 will be gone within 2-3 seasons Luck and Wentz had season ending inures. So other than Wentz, the Rams wouldn't trade Goff for any of the bolded guys Thats fair to say when these guys are gone Goff has a shot to get into tier 1. Goff is still young. Id like to see him take that leap. I thought he was a better passer coming out of college than Wentz. Hes not there yet. He was not the focal point of his offense last year. It was Todd Gurley. Goff was ok in the playoff loss. Youd like to see more from him, but it was his first time and you obviously give him a pass for it. Now there are expectations. This will be an important year for Goff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: Thats fair to say when these guys are gone Goff has a shot to get into tier 1. Goff is still young. Id like to see him take that leap. I thought he was a better passer coming out of college than Wentz. Hes not there yet. He was not the focal point of his offense last year. It was Todd Gurley. Goff was ok in the playoff loss. Youd like to see more from him, but it was his first time and you obviously give him a pass for it. Now there are expectations. This will be an important year for Goff. Very fair. I think we agree on where Goff stands in the NFL and going forward, we just disagree on where his season ranked last year, but that's okay, we can agree to disagree there. I'd like him to make a leap too, I like the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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