Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: I believe Dabol will mold an offense around Allen and not force a system like whatshisname did. I dam well hope so. If not can him now and get me someone who will. We’re all in on this now. as a side note note, WR wanted... preferably one that can run down a 70 yard bomb. K-Benjamin.... no, he is not that guy Hey- we finally found a use for Lee evans, long jumper Goodwin or Sam-me Watkins! Edited April 27, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, GoBills808 said: I was referring to the fact that nobody here was correct about how the draft played out. Which is totally understandable, considering we don't have as much information as the people involved in the process and we are for the most part guessing. As for humility, meh. I've been plenty wrong before and I'll be wrong again. What I won't be doing is pretending to accurately predict the career of a guy before he's played an NFL down. I like the pick, lots of others don't, and that's fine. But to write it off based on guesswork before he's taken a snap is the height of arrogance imo. It's a mistake to write him off completely because he's smart and physically talented. He has some fundamental deficiencies that predict he'll struggle at the NFL level, but we should wait and see what kind of coaching he receives and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said: With regard to your last point, they benched a starter for a 5th round rookie while they were in playoff contention and that rookie threw 5 picks. I can't think of a better example of blindly rushing headlong into a bad decision. Or more evidence of the head coach's inability to evaluate QB play. Fair point, although from what I understand that decision had a lot to do with Dennison who was let go. And as it didn't prevent the Bills from making the playoffs, one could view it as a calculated risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 55 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: "He has to become quicker mentally to develop into a quality NFL quarterback." Sure, that's happened, ever. Well, who knows whether Allen will become that guy, but the Wonderlic is a measure of quick, accurate thinking, and Allen blew away the other QBs on the Wonderlic. His shortcomings in the decision making arena may relate more to his coaching that his abilities. He had a year of junior college, was injured his first year at Wyoming, then played two full seasons. No one is going to mistake the coaching at Wyoming for the coaching at USC, UCLA and Oklahoma. Those are big-time programs with big-time coaches. Craig Bohl has had success, but not at the major college level. He had Carson Wentz for Wentz's freshman and sophomore years and didn't make Wentz the starter. Wentz only started after Bohl left for Wyoming. If Bohl couldn't get Wentz near his ceiling in two years, why should we assume that he did it with Allen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: It's a mistake to write him off completely because he's smart and physically talented. He has some fundamental deficiencies that predict he'll struggle at the NFL level, but we should wait and see what kind of coaching he receives and hope for the best. Yep. This is pretty much my view as well, although I am much more optimistic about his chances than most. Admittedly. The life of a Bills fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I dam well hope so. If not can him now and get me someone who will. We’re all in on this now. as a side note note, WR wanted... preferably one that can run down a 70 yard bomb. K-Benjamin.... no, he is not that guy Hey- we finally found a use for Lee evans, long jumper Goodwin or Sam-me Watkins! DJ Chark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: "He has to become quicker mentally to develop into a quality NFL quarterback." Sure, that's happened, ever. Yea but like he played with guys who ALSO have to become quicker mentally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Hopkins Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: "He has to become quicker mentally to develop into a quality NFL quarterback." Sure, that's happened, ever. It went so well with EJ though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Well, who knows whether Allen will become that guy, but the Wonderlic is a measure of quick, accurate thinking, and Allen blew away the other QBs on the Wonderlic. His shortcomings in the decision making arena may relate more to his coaching that his abilities. He had a year of junior college, was injured his first year at Wyoming, then played two full seasons. No one is going to mistake the coaching at Wyoming for the coaching at USC, UCLA and Oklahoma. Those are big-time programs with big-time coaches. Craig Bohl has had success, but not at the major college level. He had Carson Wentz for Wentz's freshman and sophomore years and didn't make Wentz the starter. Wentz only started after Bohl left for Wyoming. If Bohl couldn't get Wentz near his ceiling in two years, why should we assume that he did it with Allen? Intelligence and processing speed are two different things. I'm sure he's a very smart cat. Can his brain work more quickly to process information and translate it to his body? That's a really hard thing to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickleyjones Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Julio Hopkins said: It went so well with EJ though. because allen = ej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxxxxxx Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Fair point, although from what I understand that decision had a lot to do with Dennison who was let go. And as it didn't prevent the Bills from making the playoffs, one could view it as a calculated risk. And it blew up in their faces, and they didn't learn from it. I wanted Rosen for the simple reason that he would be harder to screw up. Allen could be the best QB of the class, it is possible. I just don't think we have the personnel and patience needed to make that happen. If he could sit behind someone like Rothlisberger, and develop chemistry with recievers that have speed and hands look out. But we are not even close to having that kind of support, and his early development will be key. Whats the point of having a qb with a rocket arm, wothout recievers who can stretch the filed? I can't see a scenario where this will work out. Edited April 27, 2018 by MURPHD6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said: Intelligence and processing speed are two different things. I'm sure he's a very smart cat. Can his brain work more quickly to process information and translate it to his body? That's a really hard thing to improve. Yep. Stephen Hawking never got over his slow eye problem, unfortunately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Julio Hopkins said: It went so well with EJ though. I know I’m trying to be optimistic, his wonderlic was 37. It puts him around romo, Bradford, Stafford, luck, Rodgers, and keap... all guys who have never been accused of not being able to process the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, MURPHD6 said: And it blew up in their faces, and they didn't learn from it. I wanted Rosen for the simple reason that he would be harder to screw up. Allen could be the best QB of the class, it is possible. I just don't think we have the personnel and patience needed to make that happen. If he could sit behind someone like Rothlisberger, and develop chemistry with recievers that have speed and hands look out. But we are not even close to having that kind of support, and his early development will be key. Whats the point of having a qb with a rocket arm, wothout recievers who can stretch the filed? I can't see a scenario where this will work out. It's no doubt the high risk pick. I liken it to the Rams w/ Goff (who was admittedly a more polished prospect)...he took some lumps his first year, then they got him some weapons and a new coordinator and suddenly he looks like their answer. I think if Beane/McD follow a similar blueprint and stick to the plan for his development it's going work out similarly, the upside being Allen's potential ceiling looks to me higher than Goff's. Clay and McCoy if they can squeeze another year+ out of him is a solid baseline for a rookie QB. Benjamin is a QB-friendly wideout. Address the line and I think Allen can step into a situation that's conducive to future success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxxxxxx Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 31 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: I believe Dabol will mold an offense around Allen and not force a system like whatshisname did. Ideally, but how does he do that without a relaible deep threat when A.J has to start. Does he just tank and wait until next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, MURPHD6 said: Ideally, but how does he do that without a relaible deep threat when A.J has to start. Does he just tank and wait until next year? Draft, free agency, trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: Josh Allen has pretty slow eyes which is why I'm worried. How can you not love his size and arm but lacking touch, anticipation, accuracy and game intelligence is crazy for such a high pick. There may be a difference between slow eyes that occur because the QB played 7 on 7 in high school and at a community college for two years of his college experience and a prospect who just can't process that quickly and never will. The problem is you can't be sure it's one and not the other. We can hope, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 21 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Intelligence and processing speed are two different things. I'm sure he's a very smart cat. Can his brain work more quickly to process information and translate it to his body? That's a really hard thing to improve. Um, the Wonderlic isn't an intelligence test. It IS a processing speed test. Processing speed under time pressure. I thought I said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: "He has to become quicker mentally to develop into a quality NFL quarterback." Sure, that's happened, ever. This. /thread. EJ 2.0 Beane and derm get canned in 3 years wen its clear hes a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Chris66 said: Ryan Mallet. Except Mallet actually played top level defenses. If Nick Foles can beat the Patriots Allen surely has a good chance at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I'm a little bemused, about all the nonsense being talked about, processing speed. Mainly because every college QB has to get quicker at it, due to the NFL being played at a far greater speed generally. Even though every rookie (not limited to QBs) gets told that the speed of the NFL is much quicker, they all seem to concur that it's one of the major differences, when it comes to the games, that really sticks with them. All the different quotes over the years, about 'the game slowing down' for guys, once they get adjusted to the speed things happen at, is just that. I see no evidence that Allen will be any different to any other guy in that respect, it just so happens that at the QB position, it has a greater effect. Allen will either make that 'transition', or he won't, in which case he won't last, but there's nothing to say he can't make it, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 31 minutes ago, TigerJ said: There may be a difference between slow eyes that occur because the QB played 7 on 7 in high school and at a community college for two years of his college experience and a prospect who just can't process that quickly and never will. The problem is you can't be sure it's one and not the other. We can hope, however. I pray he figures it out. A guy like that you need smart offensive minds around him. People go back to Favre but he had Holmgren, Reid, Mariucci, Gruden, Marty with him. We have Daboll and Culley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: Um, the Wonderlic isn't an intelligence test. It IS a processing speed test. Processing speed under time pressure. I thought I said that. As in hand-eye coordination? Or memory recall for not throwing off the back foot? Or vision tracking downfield through a 6-man pass rush? Wow. It is a pretty tough test... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxxxxxx Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Draft, free agency, trade. With all the other holes, the given up picks, the head coaches area of expertise and the carosel at OC, I don't see it happening under Allen's rookie deal, or this coaching regime, for that matter. If Rosen plays early and plays well, patience is going to run out, quickly, and Dermott and Beane will be out the door before they have the chance to do so. It already happened in Cleveland. Edited April 27, 2018 by MURPHD6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, GoBills808 said: I don't think anyone will deny he needs to develop aspects of his game if he's going to be the answer long-term at QB. What I don't understand is why you'd rule out the possibility that he WILL develop and keep harping on his deficiencies that have been articulated ad nauseum pre draft. Because Allen was unimpressive in college except for his physical attributes. On the important factors that separate successful NFL QBs from successful collegiate QBs, Allen is behind the 8 ball. His college career was not particularly impressive despite playing against competition that's most charitably described as "weak" ... and the Bills not only traded up to get him, but were apparently willing to trade away more simply on a hope that he becomes the first "raw" QB prospect taken in the first round to be successful in the NFL in decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, SoTier said: Because Allen was unimpressive in college except for his physical attributes. On the important factors that separate successful NFL QBs from successful collegiate QBs, Allen is behind the 8 ball. His college career was not particularly impressive despite playing against competition that's most charitably described as "weak" ... and the Bills not only traded up to get him, but were apparently willing to trade away more simply on a hope that he becomes the first "raw" QB prospect taken in the first round to be successful in the NFL in decades. Clearly he impressed enough to be considered a top pick, even #1 overall. It wasn't purely his physical attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Passions are high, on both sides. Hopefully it'll subside. I really wanted Rosen when the board fell the way it did, Allen was my least favorite of the top four so I get the knee-jerk outrage. I've also been one of the many on here (for years) who have argued that accuracy cannot be taught at the NFL level - so another red flag for me. All that said, all I wanted was for the Bills to be bold and get the guy they believed in - which it seems they have done. Beane made his choice, he'll sink or swim on how well Allen develops. Here's to hoping he proves my fears unfounded and becomes a franchise guy for the next decade. My thoughts exactly. I am now a Josh Allen backer, he’s my boy. Now it’s up to McD (and his coaches) to develop him and Beane to get him a proper OL and WRs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, NewEra said: My thoughts exactly. I am now a Josh Allen backer, he’s my boy. Now it’s up to McD (and his coaches) to develop him and Beane to get him a proper OL and WRs. Love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxxxxxx Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, SoTier said: Because Allen was unimpressive in college except for his physical attributes. On the important factors that separate successful NFL QBs from successful collegiate QBs, Allen is behind the 8 ball. His college career was not particularly impressive despite playing against competition that's most charitably described as "weak" ... and the Bills not only traded up to get him, but were apparently willing to trade away more simply on a hope that he becomes the first "raw" QB prospect taken in the first round to be successful in the NFL in decades. The only comparable situation I can think of is Flacco, but he was drafted at 18 and his completion percentage was above 60%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: 1000 times more athletic and also not a crack head. Allen: 4.75 40. Mallett: 5.37 40. What a lazy comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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