Victory Formation Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Mountain Man said: You have this completely the wrong way round. Rudolph is low ceiling high floor. Allen are very high ceiling very low floor. Allen has the lowest floor on of any QB in the draft and if his inaccuracy from college doesn't improve he'll be out the league in 3 years You're right about Allen and Rudolph, wrong about Jackson, he has no future as an NFL starter. Allen has better arm talent than just about every starting QB in the NFL, you're very right about that, also the lowest floor. Edited March 5, 2018 by NewDayBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 On 3/3/2018 at 8:19 PM, racketmaster said: Personally, it is Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold and then Allen. They have the most franchise quarterback potential and it may be get one of the top 4 or bust. Jackson is an intriguing prospect who could serve as a solid option for a few years due to his freakish athleticism. Once defenses figure out his tendencies and the hits begin to take a toll on his body, there will likely be a decline in his play (see RGiii, Kap, Taylor). White is also interesting but the odds of hitting outside the top 4 don’t seem that great to me. Nailed it. This is exactly where I'm at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, NewDayBills said: You're right about Allen and Rudolph, wrong about Jackson, he has no future as an NFL starter. Allen has better arm talent than just about every starting QB in the NFL, you're very right about that, also the lowest floor. What is arm talent? Is it the ability to just zip it in there through a knothole without touching the sides when it's all on the line ? No, that is wizardry, jedi I can do anything at any moment, especially if everything is on the line talent. The arm is one of the tools, not the talent. Edited March 5, 2018 by Turk71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This. When I watched Rudolph's film, I found myself watching his WR more and more. I covet Washington. Rudolph got a LOT of help from his WR. I remain on the other side of this. Rudolph was the best player on that offense in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 18 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: I imagine Mason Rudolph is doing a lot of those kinds of chats with personnel people at the moment. That level of recall was mighty impressive. I would bring the kid in for a visit and do that kind of thing for hours on end. If I think he "gets it" I'd have no problem taking him in the first round of the draft. If Mason Rudolph copes with the mental transition to an NFL offense he will be a successful starting NFL Quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 9 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: Go back and watch Nathan Peterman's Gruden QB camp and you will floored. He also has a lack of arm strength. I think knowledge of the game can only take you so far if your can't throw an out route. And I agree, I wish we could take Rosen's brain and arm talent, Allen's arm strength and size, and Jackson's athletic ability and make a quarterback. Maybe Mayfield's moxie and Darnold's toughness as well. I wouldn't want anything from Rudolph. Very ordinary. .....I'm trolling, but ....you could have had that combo at 10 last year.....(Pat Mahomes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 38 minutes ago, Turk71 said: What is arm talent? Is it the ability to just zip it in there through a knothole without touching the sides when it's all on the line ? No, that is wizardry, jedi I can do anything at any moment, especially if everything is on the line talent. The arm is one of the tools, not the talent. No offense, but this is stupid. Arm talent means exactly what it says. The ability to pinpoint a bomb 50 yards down the field while running for your life. The ability to laser a football into a window that 99% of the starting QBs in the NFL couldn't do. The talent is unquestionable, Allen has as good of an arm if not better than most of the Golden Jacket QBs you see in Canton. Whether you want to criticize him for other things, that's fine and I may agree on some of those concerns, but arm talent is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: No offense, but this is stupid. Arm talent means exactly what it says. The ability to pinpoint a bomb 50 yards down the field while running for your life. The ability to laser a football into a window that 99% of the starting QBs in the NFL couldn't do. The talent is unquestionable, Allen has as good of an arm if not better than most of the Golden Jacket QBs you see in Canton. Whether you want to criticize him for other things, that's fine and I may agree on some of those concerns, but arm talent is what it is. The arm is still the tool, the will and skill are the talent. The point is it takes more than a strong arm to dial it in. Allen had a very below average career in a very average conference. Do you guys really believe he is one of the better football players in this class????? Edited March 5, 2018 by Turk71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, Turk71 said: The arm is still the tool, the will and skill are the talent. The point is it takes more than a strong arm to dial it in. Allen had a very below average career in a very average conference. Do you guys really believe he is one of the better football players in this class????? I'm not talking about skill, demeanor, intelligence, I'm talking about sheer slinging a football around, one of the best I've ever seen in my entire life. Your criticisms of everything else though is understandable and fair, I understand where you're coming from. Do you remember Drew Henson? He threw a pretty darn good ball too, but he couldn't piece it all together too. He threw such a nice ball that Tom Brady was his backup, it could be a similar situation, but I do think Allen is immeasurably better than Henson, but both had/have immense arm talent with concerns about the rest of their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 9 hours ago, Augie said: That’s fair, but can I assume you’re willing to pay what it takes for the upgrade? Or do you prefer the status quo? I'm in the trade up and target Josh Rosen crowd. Plan B is Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 7 hours ago, Turk71 said: If it is very ordinary to be 6'5' 235 lbs. and be one of the most prolific passers in college history, then yes he is ordinary. Rudolph threw for about as many yds and tds in a single season as Peterman did in his entire career. Rudolph is 3 inches taller with a bigger frame, was top 5 in almost statistical category, and is 11th all time in career passing yds. He has also improved every year in every category. Other than their purported noodle arms I don't see a comparison. Obviously I have no idea if Rudolph will be a success, but I don't see a can't miss qb out there. I think they all have ? marks and are just potential still. The way people believe wholeheartedly in someone and completely dismiss others with such certainty is laughable. I mean he was also in a kindergarten offense and has tiny hands, whereas Peterman comes from a pro style offense and has nearly 10 inch hands. We could looks at measurables and make a lot of arguments. I stand by my argument that Rudolph is a 3rd, 4th rounder who is basically Bryce Petty with more college experience. About a round or two better than Nate Peterman. Rudolph just happens to be big. He's not special. He doesn't move the needle at all for this franchise. Not sure what a lot of people are seeing here. Rosen has been elite from high school, Allen has elite athletic ability and arm strength, Mayfield played at an extremely elite level in college, Jackson has elite athleticism and Darnold is seen by many as being an elite quarterback prospect. After that there is a huge drop off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: I mean he was also in a kindergarten offense and has tiny hands, whereas Peterman comes from a pro style offense and has nearly 10 inch hands. We could looks at measurables and make a lot of arguments. I stand by my argument that Rudolph is a 3rd, 4th rounder who is basically Bryce Petty with more college experience. About a round or two better than Nate Peterman. Rudolph just happens to be big. He's not special. He doesn't move the needle at all for this franchise. Not sure what a lot of people are seeing here. Rosen has been elite from high school, Allen has elite athletic ability and arm strength, Mayfield played at an extremely elite level in college, Jackson has elite athleticism and Darnold is seen by many as being an elite quarterback prospect. After that there is a huge drop off. Peterman's offense was no pro-style. It included under centre snaps.... but it was essentially a gimmick scheme beyond that. Petty I can see where you are coming from but Rudolph to me is significantly more accurate. What I see is a really accurate intermediate range passer and you make your money in this league in the intermediate range. He is only my 4th Quarterback.... but I think he is a 1st/2nd round borderline player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Zerovotlz said: .....I'm trolling, but ....you could have had that combo at 10 last year.....(Pat Mahomes) Agreed. I thought they should have taken Mahomes there. I will say, and maybe it makes sense, that they were probably trying to move up to two for Trubisky and the 49ers told the Bears, which led to the Bears jumping them. Also, when making these decisions they are kind of a big deal for the franchise to trade up for their quarterback for the next ten years. I think it is possible that McDermott decided to pass on that draft class, sans Peterman, until he had his own GM and scouts in place. Why would you let Doug Whaley's staff lead you to franchise quarterback? It is bad process. Now he has his true staff in place and his OC of choice as well. This year is the year they make the move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, MrEpsYtown said: Also, when making these decisions they are kind of a big deal for the franchise to trade up for their quarterback for the next ten years. I think it is possible that McDermott decided to pass on that draft class, sans Peterman, until he had his own GM and scouts in place. Why would you let Doug Whaley's staff lead you to franchise quarterback? It is bad process. Now he has his true staff in place and his OC of choice as well. This year is the year they make the move. I think this is absolutely what happened. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) Cian Fahey broke him down in this Twitter thread. He's his top QB prospect this year: Something I didn't know is Rudolph is the only QB that checks off all 7 Parcells rules for QBs. Jackson hit 4/7, Allen/Rosen 3/7, and Darnold 2/7. Rudolph has flown under the radar for me but he's jumped up my informal rankings a bit. Edited March 9, 2018 by HappyDays 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 If you read Cian Fahay's Twitter account, you'd think Rudolph was the next Tom Brady. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000000919056/Mason-Rudolph-2018-NFL-Scouting-Combine-workout Watch his drop back. Even the less informed observers can see that he looks like a fish out of water trying to drop back and throw timing routes. Ideal size but below average arm strength, athleticism, hand size, and played in a bs college offense. There's no way he's worth a 1st or a 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 18 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Cian Fahey broke him down in this Twitter thread. He's his top QB prospect this year: Something I didn't know is Rudolph is the only QB that checks off all 7 Parcells rules for QBs. Jackson hit 4/7, Allen/Rosen 3/7, and Darnold 2/7. Rudolph has flown under the radar for me but he's jumped up my informal rankings a bit. Mayfield meets the Parcells criteria as well, but I think the Parcell rules are outdated personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Mayfield meets the Parcells criteria as well, but I think the Parcell rules are outdated personally. I think being a senior and graduating (a) kind of go to the same point and (b) do not matter all that much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) On 3/2/2018 at 8:17 PM, NewDayBills said: I understand that, but he is malleable, he can throw the ball. Allen and Jackson both have accuracy issues, but they get a free pass. Rudolph is one of the most accurate throwers in the draft and he is smart, he knows where to go with the ball. Allen and Jackson have big arms, but they don't know where to go with the ball. Rudolph is very accurate and smart, while he won't wow you away with arm talent, he can get it there. 1) Wha? (Not seeing any Jackson free pass anywhere) 2) Not true Rudolph played in a spread offense, while he's said to have a very high whiteboard IQ he did not play in a pro-style offense where he was expected to make as many progressions. That's not to say he can't or couldn't, but it's a questionmark. It is absolutely not true if you've watched any film that "Jackson doesn't know where to go with the ball". It is harder to say about Allen because he didn't have the OL or the escapability to get through any progressions much of the time. 4) Accuracy. I wish someone with better eyes than I would look at Rudolph's combine workout. He doesn't get the ball to the WR as much as the other top prospects, but there are about 7 throws where I can't decide if that's on him or on the WR. I decided it was about 50/50 but I'd like to see someone who can better figure out what the routes are supposed to be tell me. On his game film, I find myself coveting his WR. They help him out a good bit IMO. On 3/5/2018 at 6:50 AM, GunnerBill said: I think this is absolutely what happened. Also concur Edited March 9, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts