Bridge QB Reality Check

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

hey, honestly, you're one of the more knowledgeable posters here. but that's coming from people like me.

 

it was all in fun.

 

 

No worries, and I am sure I let it annoy me more than it should...all good in the internet land man!  HA

 

No if we can just find a way to land one of the big QB's I think we will all have reason to rejoice 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I disagree with your analysis.  I'd put the Bills ahead of the Jets and Cleveland as options for someone like a Sam Bradford.  And even if they don't get Bradford there is McCarron and Bridgewater and McCown and Fitzpatrick.  The Bills are not going to struggle to find a bridge Quarterback.  There are loads of them out there.  Bradford is probably the number 1 "bridge guy" but he is far from the only option.  They have to rip off the band aid on Tyrod.  Even if it means a downgrade bridge for what we both agree could be a very small number of games at the start of 2018 (if they even make it out of camp not already the backup).  

You captured my thoughts. It's just time to move on from him. He is a terrific and diligent person. He deserves a fresh start and so do the Bills. The Bills would have a lot more flexibility in this draft if they would have drafted Mahomes (my preference) or Watson (your preference) last year. Because of the "just get by" qb philosophy the Bills have been a stagnant franchise. It's time to give it a jolt with some fresh faces. 

[Big Gun]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

No, it's pretty common now actually. Why do you not want to give credit to a QB who sees an opportunity and runs for a TD? Guys like Newton, Rodgers, Wilson, Smith, Cousins, and yes even Brady give it purpose.

Maybe in your world it is but in the real world, no it isn't.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, GrizzReaper said:

Sign Fitz! LoL

 

...he's been hanging around Bflo lately......house hunting??..............

[grb]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I disagree with your analysis.  I'd put the Bills ahead of the Jets and Cleveland as options for someone like a Sam Bradford.  And even if they don't get Bradford there is McCarron and Bridgewater and McCown and Fitzpatrick.  The Bills are not going to struggle to find a bridge Quarterback.  There are loads of them out there.  Bradford is probably the number 1 "bridge guy" but he is far from the only option.  They have to rip off the band aid on Tyrod.  Even if it means a downgrade bridge for what we both agree could be a very small number of games at the start of 2018 (if they even make it out of camp not already the backup).  

 

Two points about this :

• First, it's nice to see this stated without pretense. There a lot of Bills fans who want a new quarterback even if he's worse than Taylor, so why not admit it? Hell, there are even some hardcore COPs out there (Cult of Peterman), and that's their exclusive message. Of course the "rip off the band aid" shtick is meaningless blather, but ya can't have everything
• Second, you'll likely get your wish. What do you think the McCarrons, McCowns, and Fitzpatricks will do when inserted into Buffalo's offense? Most mocks I've seen are defense-heavy, even if there isn't a push to package picks and move up. The Bills' o-line is a mess, their receivers are a mess, their running game took a big step back last year via another useless scheme change, and McCoy desperately needs back-up relief. I'm not sure a huge amount of help is on the way. Whatever Non-Taylor parachutes into this mess is supposed to shine merely by being the Non-Taylor, rookie or veteran bridge. Really? Don't be surprised if it turns out otherwise.....

 

 

Edited February 26, 2018 by grb

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, grb said:

 

Two points about this :

• First, it's nice to see this stated without pretense. There a lot of Bills fans who want a new quarterback even if he's worse than Taylor, so why not admit it? Hell, there are even some hardcore COPs out there (Cult of Peterman), and that's their exclusive message. Of course the "rip off the band aid" shtick is meaningless blather, but ya can't have everything
• Second, you'll likely get your wish. What do you think the McCarrons, McCowns, and Fitzpatricks will do when inserted into Buffalo's offense? Most mocks I've seen are defense-heavy, even if there isn't a push to package picks and move up. The Bills' o-line is a mess, their receivers are a mess, their running game took a big step back last year via another useless scheme change, and McCoy desperately needs back-up relief. I'm not sure a huge amount of help is on the way. Whatever Non-Taylor parachutes into this mess is supposed to shine merely by being the Non-Taylor, rookie or veteran bridge. Really? Don't be surprised if it turns out otherwise.....

 

 

 

It isn't meaningless blather. The Bills should 100% trade up for the best rookie Quarterback they can get and in that scenario they need only a short term vet solution. Telling me that person will instantly be worse than Taylor is pure cult of Tyrod fiction.

 

Then you throw the Peterman name out like that is a defense. I thought Peterman sucked as an NFL prospect pre-draft. He was borderline undraftable. I am not at all surprised he sucked. 

 

See it is easier to dismiss Taylor's critics when you accuse them all of clamouring for Peterman or not having a viable alternative. A year ago I was advocating for drafting Watson and sigining Keenum... they said that was not a viable alternative as well. Some people will find any excuse to hang on to the hope that Tyrod figures it out. He won't. He is what he is. Time to rip the band aid off. 

 

[SouthNYfan]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It isn't meaningless blather. The Bills should 100% trade up for the best rookie Quarterback they can get and in that scenario they need only a short term vet solution. Telling me that person will instantly be worse than Taylor is pure cult of Tyrod fiction.

 

Then you throw the Peterman name out like that is a defense. I thought Peterman sucked as an NFL prospect pre-draft. He was borderline undraftable. I am not at all surprised he sucked. 

 

See it is easier to dismiss Taylor's critics when you accuse them all of clamouring for Peterman or not having a viable alternative. A year ago I was advocating for drafting Watson and sigining Keenum... they said that was not a viable alternative as well. Some people will find any excuse to hang on to the hope that Tyrod figures it out. He won't. He is what he is. Time to rip the band aid off. 

 

 

I feel like the patient has already bled out at this point 

 

With you 100% my brother.

 

I have a pile of texts to my friend last year about Watson as well.

 

I was not very happy we didn't draft him.

 

Even more unhappy when he started trashing defenses.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Rodgers and Big Ben don't surprise me.  Flacco does a bit.  I wonder how many of Brady's were half yard and less sneaks?  

 

Considering years where Brady has 2 or 3 TD, he averages something like 2 or 3 YPG, safe betting is "most of them"

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Im not defending TT, so sorry if it came across that way, but its mostly because of all the side tracked conversation.  

 

Bottom line is this...we can and have won with TT.  So if we are going to draft a rookie high, like a trade up even, then why not just stick with the 1 year deal with TT.  Let the rookie battle it out in preseason to wither win the job outright or take the job over sometime during the year.  Now TT's is gone in 2019 and it costs us nothing.  If we spend more money on a QB than TT and for a multiyear deal, then Bills have a high priced backup eating cap space in 2019 instead of having that cap space to keep adding more to the team.  Thats all I am saying in regards to TT.

 

This I agree with, actually.  80% of the fans on this board might melt down, but to me the bottom line is: I think Beane wants to improve the QB position now and in the future.  I want them to draft a rookie.  If he's a rookie that should only need a year, or part of a year, then the question becomes "can we get someone who is a clear and significant upgrade on TT, but willing to sign on to only start for for one year?"

 

But please keep in mind that even at the very top of the draft, the failure rate for QB is significant (1:4 or 1:3) and falls off quickly; many of the eventual successes do need >1 year.  If a QB comes in and plays well, he can keep the rookie sitting, and the rookie might not show enough readiness in TC and preseason/occasional games to come off the bench for a couple years.   Every QB who has played in the NFL has enough ego to think that given the right circumstance, he can be That Guy.

 

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 Personally, I think if we can trade TT thats the best solution, then just let NP start and see if he can show he has an NFL career while the rookie sits until he is ready to play.  If NP fails, who cares, only helps our 2019 draft outlook.  If NP shows value, then we could actually have a trade chip in him potentially moving forward.

 

This is where I part ways.  If McBeane is to be believed that we are dedicated to winning now and in the future, there is NFW Nathan Peterman should be our option to a rookie at this point.  I'm not saying Peterman is trash, and if he's beefed up and worked his a** off and comes into training camp and lights everyone's hair on fire sure - give him a shot.  But don't plan on that.  Who cares?

 

What I'm telling you is from the way Beane and McDermott have behaved and what they've said, they care.

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This I agree with, actually.  80% of the fans on this board might melt down, but to me the bottom line is: I think Beane wants to improve the QB position now and in the future.  I want them to draft a rookie.  If he's a rookie that should only need a year, or part of a year, then the question becomes "can we get someone who is a clear and significant upgrade on TT, but willing to sign on to only start for for one year?"

 

But please keep in mind that even at the very top of the draft, the failure rate for QB is significant (1:4 or 1:3) and falls off quickly; many of the eventual successes do need >1 year.  If a QB comes in and plays well, he can keep the rookie sitting, and the rookie might not show enough readiness in TC and preseason/occasional games to come off the bench for a couple years.   Every QB who has played in the NFL has enough ego to think that given the right circumstance, he can be That Guy.

 

 

This is where I part ways.  If McBeane is to be believed that we are dedicated to winning now and in the future, there is NFW Nathan Peterman should be our option to a rookie at this point.  I'm not saying Peterman is trash, and if he's beefed up and worked his a** off and comes into training camp and lights everyone's hair on fire sure - give him a shot.  But don't plan on that.  Who cares?

 

What I'm telling you is from the way Beane and McDermott have behaved and what they've said, they care.

 

 

 

All good, and when I say who cares, keep in mind, I am talking about from our perspective, not players and GM.  Of course they care, but also I would want my GM less worried about who the bridge is and more concerned on getting that rookie and getting him on the field.

[atlbillsfan1975]

On 2/25/2018 at 5:01 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its not that I want Tyrod...its that Tyrod makes the most sense.  Im fine with him at QB until the rookie takes his job during the year or next when TT's contract is up.  I would rather trade TT and get an asset then role out with Peterman (I dont care if we lose games while our rookie sits) or some cheap FA backup QB.  I mean if we go QB high in the draft, we aren't thinking super bowl in 2018...we are building for 2019 and beyond.  So the "vet" QB is completely insignificant and best to just keep the affordable guy we have on a 1 year deal or trade him for an asset and role with the rookie as our starter or NP starting a couple games before the rookie comes in.

Ok, I found where you and I can agree to disagree. Tyrod doesn’t make the most sense to me. I know what Tyrod is and honestly I don’t want to watch it anymore. I understand that Bradford, Bridgewater, Keenum, or whichever other  Vet comes in will probably have similar results in the win loss category as Tyrod. My selfish desire is not to watch Tyrod play. It also doesn’t make sense from a continuity stand point to bring Tyrod back because there is a new OC and offensive coaches. If the Bills bring Tyrod back after drafting a QB in round one, I won’t be totally disappointed. My disappointment will be squashed by the hope that we might of  finally found our QB for the next 10-15 years through the draft. I have given every QB the Bills have trotted out since Kelly a chance. I have wanted them all to be the guy. I have given everyone 2 seasons to show me what they are. To show progression. Tyrod is the same quarterback today as he was when he won the starting job to begin with. It’s time to move on or at least get the moving forward plan in place for 2019.

Edited February 27, 2018 by atlbillsfan1975

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 2/25/2018 at 1:46 PM, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

yet, another taylor thread.

 

 

There is a lot of that going around .....  

then they bump the offshoots instead of the main topics.  

 

[transplantbillsfan]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 5:04 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Bradford?  Yes he is an excellent passer.  That is why he was a #1 overall pick, at a point when teams signing a #1 overall pick had no salary limits and knew they had to back up the Brinks truck.  Fact: 2016 20 TD passes.  In 8 years in the league,  Bradford's record is 21 TD passes in a year where he threw 13 INT.  When Tyrod threw 20 TD in 2015, I had the impression that wasn't enough for us here.

 

But those are nits.  You say "(Bradford) was definitely on his way last year before the injury to his knee".  That's the crux of the Bradford problem right there.

In 2013, Bradford was finally on his way!  Then he injured his knee.

In 2014, Bradford was gonna come back rehabbed and stronger than ever - then he re injured his knee

In 2017, Bradford was definitely on his way - then he re injured his knee for the 3rd time.

 

At this point Bradford has played 38 out of 80 games - less than half - of his last 5 seasons.  He also missed 6 games due to an ankle sprain his second year.

 

How many times do you have to pencil a guy in as a starter and think "he's definitely on his way!" only to see him go out from injury, before you decide he's not reliable?

 

 

I'm actually amazed that anyone thinks Bradford is really worth anything at this point.

 

So

 

many

 

injuries.

 

 

This isn't about risk vs. reward.  It's about when the injury will happen.  Hell, Bradford isn't even the vet FA QB with a knee problem from his own team.  Bridgewater before Bradford, but I think you stay away from him, too.

 

To me, the only vet FA QBs worth even pursuing as potential starters are Kirk Cousins and Case Keenum.  Yet, at the same time I'd pretty quickly eliminate both from the list because of how much they'll cost.

 

Cousins or bust for vet QBs... that's it.  But I'd very much prefer a drafted guy in the 1st.  And I think OBD would, too.  And as the OP laid it all out, that's why I think Taylor staying is highly likely.  And his primary exit from the team would be via a massive trade up that involves another QB who is much more obviously a backup  than TT.

 

Like here would be a possible trade I think could happen and I'd be good with it.  Assuming Darnold/Rosen or maybe Mayfield are still sitting there at pick #5, Bills make a trade with Denver.

 

Bills get pick # 5 and Trevor Siemian.

 

Broncos get pick #21, pick #53, one of our 5ths and Tyrod Taylor.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

29 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I'm actually amazed that anyone thinks Bradford is really worth anything at this point.

 

So

 

many

 

injuries.

 

 

This isn't about risk vs. reward.  It's about when the injury will happen.  Hell, Bradford isn't even the vet FA QB with a knee problem from his own team.  Bridgewater before Bradford, but I think you stay away from him, too.

 

To me, the only vet FA QBs worth even pursuing as potential starters are Kirk Cousins and Case Keenum.  Yet, at the same time I'd pretty quickly eliminate both from the list because of how much they'll cost.

 

Cousins or bust for vet QBs... that's it.  But I'd very much prefer a drafted guy in the 1st.  And I think OBD would, too.  And as the OP laid it all out, that's why I think Taylor staying is highly likely.  And his primary exit from the team would be via a massive trade up that involves another QB who is much more obviously a backup  than TT.

 

Like here would be a possible trade I think could happen and I'd be good with it.  Assuming Darnold/Rosen or maybe Mayfield are still sitting there at pick #5, Bills make a trade with Denver.

 

Bills get pick # 5 and Trevor Siemian.

 

Broncos get pick #21, pick #53, one of our 5ths and Tyrod Taylor.

Going by the updated draft pick value chart it looks like you have Taylor equal to a 4th rd pick. I don't think Denver is trading a 4th for Taylor.

[transplantbillsfan]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 6:00 AM, corta765 said:

This would be the point I remind the OP that Tyrod Taylor himself hit the open market and came BACK to Buffalo for less because suitors didn't think he was worth the money he wanted.

 

No, he didn't.

 

There's never been a moment since 2015 when Tyrod Taylor has not been under contract with the Buffalo Bills.

 

Sorry.

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 6:05 AM, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

Bradford is a perfect bridge you just play him until his knees fail then start the rookie. As long as he can get a few games into the season we would be just fine.

 

Yeah, right.  And then when his knees fail you're left with a rookie and noodle-armed Nate.  Wonderful idea   

[John from Riverside]

20 hours ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

I feel like the patient has already bled out at this point 

 

With you 100% my brother.

 

I have a pile of texts to my friend last year about Watson as well.

 

I was not very happy we didn't draft him.

 

Even more unhappy when he started trashing defenses.

 

 

Bled out?

 

WE MADE THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR

 

You dont do that with a QB that "bled you out"

 

Better is needed to take the next step.....that much is freely admitted.....a QB needs to be drafted....and a viable alternate QB needs to be found that wont cause a REGRESSION of the team

 

but lets not make it something that it is not.

 

Tyrod led the offense to the 6th most scored points in the NFL 2 years ago

 

Last year we made the playoffs

 

 

[xRUSHx]

40 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Bills make a trade with Denver.

 

Bills get pick # 5 and Trevor Siemian.

 

Broncos get pick #21, pick #53, one of our 5ths and Tyrod Taylor.

Hahahaha, yeah right,

Man would Denver have to be really dumb for a trade like that. Let's say just for giggles Tyrod is worth maybe a 7th round pick and Trevor is worth maybe  a 6th round pick, Denver is already losing out on the trade.

So lets say if we take both(Tyrod and Siemian) out of your idea of a trade that leaves not enough trade value to get up to #5,  Hahaha

  So in short IMO trading for pick 5 you must think Tyrod is worth at least a 1st round pick to get Denver to not only give up pick 5 but also throw in Siemian, right...SMH, haha, now that is a good one, thanks for the laugh, what is even funnier is I bet you were serious with this trade.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, xRUSHx said:

Hahahaha, yeah right,

Man would Denver have to be really dumb for a trade like that. Let's say just for giggles Tyrod is worth maybe a 7th round pick and Trevor is worth maybe  a 6th round pick, Denver is already losing out on the trade.

So lets say if we take both(Tyrod and Siemian) out of your idea of a trade that leaves not enough trade value to get up to #5,  Hahaha

  So in short IMO trading for pick 5 you must think Tyrod is worth at least a 1st round pick to get Denver to not only give up pick 5 but also throw in Siemian, right...SMH, haha, now that is a good one, thanks for the laugh, what is even funnier is I bet you were serious with this trade.

Siemian is not a better qb then TT....no matter had bad you want that to be.

 

I am starting to thing Tyrod didnt show up at Prom for you

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Just now, xRUSHx said:

Hahahaha, yeah right,

Man would Denver have to be really dumb for a trade like that. Let's say just for giggles Tyrod is worth maybe a 7th round pick and Trevor is worth maybe  a 6th round pick, Denver is already losing out on the trade.

So lets say if we take both(Tyrod and Siemian) out of your idea of a trade that leaves not enough trade value to get up to #5,  Hahaha

  So in short IMO trading for pick 5 you must think Tyrod is worth at least a 1st round pick to get Denver to not only give up pick 5 but also throw in Siemian, right...SMH, haha, now that is a good one, thanks for the laugh, what is even funnier is I bet you were serious with this trade.

I know, there is still 502 points the Bills would need to throw in to move up. He is evaluating Taylor as a high 2nd or early 4th rd draft pick. If Taylor and Siemian cancel out then the Bills need 502 points to move up which is pick 39 or 40. So basically he has Taylor's trade value as a high 2nd rd pick. Taylor = the 502 of missing draft points that would be needed to trade up. No way the Broncos are giving up high 2nd rd pick for Taylor.

[transplantbillsfan]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:39 AM, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I'll take my chances between 2015 & 2016 he played 29gms hopefully we get him to get bk to that form.

 

Bradford?

 

Is that who you're talking about?

 

Which do you prefer?

 

Vet QB with a multi-year contract worth north of $10 million, possibly closer to $20 million per year with the following production:

249 Net yards per game

7.0 YPA passing

39 TDs

27 turnovers

 

OR

 

Vet QB on a one-year contract worth between $10-$20 million

235 Net yards per game

7.4 YPA passing

47 TDs

15 turnovers

 

 

You take your chances on that first guy, my guess is McBeane would choose the 2nd guy over that first guy, but I have a nice bridge I can sell you 

 

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Things that Tyrod supporters don't care for in a QB.

 

Accuracy 

Vision

Timing

Anticipation 

Clutch Gene 

 

Things Tyrod fans love

 

Familiarity ( Has friends in Lockeroom  )

 

Doesn't take chances with ball ( low turnover %)

 

Has occasional big play with scrambling 

 

His spin move in the pocket . Sometimes he does this with no apparent pressure and ends up taking his eyes off his wrs for nothing.  

 

Last but not least his DEEP BALL which last yr went into a coma . We didn't have a pass play for more then 50yds the whole yr. I know some here will blame the wrs but he looked horrible throwing it also. 

 

If i missed  anything please feel free to add. 

 

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Bradford?

 

Is that who you're talking about?

 

Which do you prefer?

 

Vet QB with a multi-year contract worth north of $10 million, possibly closer to $20 million per year with the following production:

249 Net yards per game

7.0 YPA passing

39 TDs

27 turnovers

 

OR

 

Vet QB on a one-year contract worth between $10-$20 million

235 Net yards per game

7.4 YPA passing

47 TDs

15 turnovers

 

 

You take your chances on that first guy, my guess is McBeane would choose the 2nd guy over that first guy, but I have a nice bridge I can sell you 

 

 

Wow how did u do that.  Matthew Berry is that u ? U Tyrod fans remind me of Lebron fans but the big difference is Lebron is a beast and Tyrod a puppy.  

[transplantbillsfan]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:51 AM, GunnerBill said:

I disagree with your analysis.  I'd put the Bills ahead of the Jets and Cleveland as options for someone like a Sam Bradford.  And even if they don't get Bradford there is McCarron and Bridgewater and McCown and Fitzpatrick.  The Bills are not going to struggle to find a bridge Quarterback.  There are loads of them out there.  Bradford is probably the number 1 "bridge guy" but he is far from the only option.  They have to rip off the band aid on Tyrod.  Even if it means a downgrade bridge for what we both agree could be a very small number of games at the start of 2018 (if they even make it out of camp not already the backup).  

 

Why do they have to do this?

 

You're an outsider.

 

We're all outsiders, but I think a lot of people here are just so friggin emotional when it comes to this issue.

 

 

(go ahead, accuse me of saying something ironic... I know you're thinking it), but...

 

 

What gives you a clue that McBeane has to cut ties with Taylor this offseason?

 

The guy is in Buffalo on literally a one year contract and as the OP referenced, all these other vet QBs are going to want multi-year deals and are likely going to want to be the guy at QB.  It's just a guess on my part (though I think a pretty educated one based on all our moves to acquire all these draft picks along with Taylor's 2-year restructure last year), but I bet McDermott and Beane want to bring in their guy at QB who will be a young guy who they can groom and grow at the position. 

 

If you believed that the Bills were targeting a QB in the first round, while the possibility of bringing in a guy like Bradford or McCown or whoever as another QB exists, it's probably far less likely than keeping the guy you have on the team still under contract for one more year.

 

 

I think the OP makes some great points because, ultimately, it takes 2 to tango.  You've gotta get that other QB to accept his role, whatever you want that to be.  Most of these guys out there will likely stay away from a team drafting a QB in the first knowing they could hear a fanbase booing them off the field before the mid-point of the season knowing there's a young pup right behind him.  And that could absolutely happen with Tyrod Taylor in the first half of the season, too, but the difference is that if you then bench him and go to the rookie at any point to the season, you aren't financially tied to him, unlike a Bradford or a Keenum if you were to bring them in and bench them.

 

[SouthNYfan]

1 hour ago, John from Hemet said:

Bled out?

 

WE MADE THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR

 

You dont do that with a QB that "bled you out"

 

Better is needed to take the next step.....that much is freely admitted.....a QB needs to be drafted....and a viable alternate QB needs to be found that wont cause a REGRESSION of the team

 

but lets not make it something that it is not.

 

Tyrod led the offense to the 6th most scored points in the NFL 2 years ago

 

Last year we made the playoffs

 

 

 

Christ stop defending him

We made the playoffs in spite of subpar QB play

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

The only emotional people here are the hard core TT fans trans.  

 

You are leading the pack.  

 

Yeah I took you off ignore so I can read first hand what insults you toss about.  

 

Now go ahead and click on the smiley face to prove how “smart and witty”  you are 

Edited February 27, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Going by the updated draft pick value chart it looks like you have Taylor equal to a 4th rd pick. I don't think Denver is trading a 4th for Taylor.

 

Great, thanks for sharing 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Great, thanks for sharing 

I'm just pointing out that their is 502 points missing in your trade up scenario. I can only assume that you think Taylor covers that 502 which would mean Taylor is worth a high 2nd or 3rd rd pick to you.

[SouthNYfan]

32 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

The only emotional people here are the hard core TT fans trans.  

 

You are leading the pack.  

 

Yeah I took you off ignore so I can read first hand what insults you toss about.  

 

Now go ahead and click on the smiley face to prove how “smart and witty”  you are 

 

6 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Great, thanks for sharing 

 

 

Look shady, he never ceases to pull through with the emoji.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, xRUSHx said:

Hahahaha, yeah right,

Man would Denver have to be really dumb for a trade like that. Let's say just for giggles Tyrod is worth maybe a 7th round pick and Trevor is worth maybe  a 6th round pick, Denver is already losing out on the trade.

So lets say if we take both(Tyrod and Siemian) out of your idea of a trade that leaves not enough trade value to get up to #5,  Hahaha

 

Why on earth would you take both Tyrod and Siemian out of the trade?  That's the point, duh.

 

Siemian is notably worse than Taylor and, therefore, is notably less valuable.

 

Quote

  So in short IMO trading for pick 5 you must think Tyrod is worth at least a 1st round pick to get Denver to not only give up pick 5 but also throw in Siemian, right...SMH, haha, now that is a good one, thanks for the laugh, what is even funnier is I bet you were serious with this trade.

 

 

Not too smart, huh?

 

Bills give Denver a 1st, a 2nd, a 5th, and an average range NFL QB who's started 40+ games over the last 3 years in exchange for the 5th pick in the 1st and a clear backup QB to whoever we draft at QB at 5.

 

 

Laugh or SMH or IMHO or OMG all you want, it's not my fault your lunacy on this Tyrod argument and weird obsession with him is making you blind to what's probably a realistic and relatively fair trade.

 

Wanna make that 5th our 4th rounder instead to give the illusion of Tyrod being significantly less valuable like you want?  Fine, I bet Denver would very seriously consider accepting our 1st, 2nd, 4th and Tyrod in exchange for #5 and Siemian.

 

7 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I'm just pointing out that their is 502 points missing in your trade up scenario. I can only assume that you think Taylor covers that 502 which would mean Taylor is worth a high 2nd or 3rd rd pick to you.

 

You literally just said a 4th rounder.

 

Why the sudden change?

 

 

As for whatever chart you're going by, I didn't look at any chart and don't think teams really give a crap about those charts.

 

Fine, make it our 1st, 2nd, 4th rounder and Tyrod for their #5 and Siemian.

 

Happy?

40 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

The only emotional people here are the hard core TT fans trans.  

 

You are leading the pack.  

 

Yeah I took you off ignore so I can read first hand what insults you toss about.  

 

Now go ahead and click on the smiley face to prove how “smart and witty”  you are 

 

My life is now complete.

 

Oh how I've missed you 

Edited February 27, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

15 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Great, thanks for sharing 

 

For someone that thinks the rep points are a joke.   Why do you keep using them?   

 

Are you adding any real value by doing so?

 

 

 

If you want to converse converse and don’t act like a child.  

[transplantbillsfan]

5 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

For someone that thinks the rep points are a joke.   Why do you keep using them?   

 

Are you adding any real value by doing so?

 

 

 

If you want to converse converse and don’t act like a child.  

 

Ummm, I just thanked you for taking me off your ignore list.

 

Why are you so upset?

 

Can we stay on topic, please.

2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I know, there is still 502 points the Bills would need to throw in to move up. He is evaluating Taylor as a high 2nd or early 4th rd draft pick. If Taylor and Siemian cancel out then the Bills need 502 points to move up which is pick 39 or 40. So basically he has Taylor's trade value as a high 2nd rd pick. Taylor = the 502 of missing draft points that would be needed to trade up. No way the Broncos are giving up high 2nd rd pick for Taylor.

 

Well, Taylor and Siemian don't cancel out because Taylor has more value than Siemian.

 

So there's the explanation for the original values.

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Wow how did u do that.  Matthew Berry is that u ? U Tyrod fans remind me of Lebron fans but the big difference is Lebron is a beast and Tyrod a puppy.  

 

Not sure what the snarkiness means, so I'll ask you this question again and even explain for you.

 

Here are your exact words regarding Bradford: "I'll take my chances between 2015 & 2016 he played 29gms hopefully we get him to get bk to that form"

 

Sam Bradford in 29 games from 2015-2016

249 Net yards per game

7.0 YPA passing

39 TDs

27 turnovers

 

That's real.  I didn't make any of that up.  That's what you're saying you prefer locking this team to in a multi-year deal over Tyrod Taylor and his one year deal.

 

And oh look, in 2015-2016 Taylor also started 29 games

235 Net yards per game

7.4 YPA passing

47 TDs

15 turnovers

 

 

So, is this really an "I want Bradford" thing or is this a "I'll cut my nose off to spite my face!" thing?

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Why on earth would you take both Tyrod and Siemian out of the trade?  That's the point, duh.

 

Siemian is notably worse than Taylor and, therefore, is notably less valuable.

 

 

 

Not too smart, huh?

 

Bills give Denver a 1st, a 2nd, a 5th, and an average range NFL QB who's started 40+ games over the last 3 years in exchange for the 5th pick in the 1st and a clear backup QB to whoever we draft at QB at 5.

 

 

Laugh or SMH or IMHO or OMG all you want, it's not my fault your lunacy on this Tyrod argument and weird obsession with him is making you blind to what's probably a realistic and relatively fair trade.

 

Wanna make that 5th our 4th rounder instead to give the illusion of Tyrod being significantly less valuable like you want?  Fine, I bet Denver would very seriously consider accepting our 1st, 2nd, 4th and Tyrod in exchange for #5 and Siemian.

 

 

You literally just said a 4th rounder.

 

Why the sudden change?

 

 

As for whatever chart you're going by, I didn't look at any chart and don't think teams really give a crap about those charts.

 

Fine, make it our 1st, 2nd, 4th rounder and Tyrod for their #5 and Siemian.

 

Happy?

I don't know what Seimian is worth in a trade? So basically if Seiman and Taylor are a wash than their is 502 missing points. I'm not really sure what Taylor's worth in a trade would be so I put high 2nd to high 4th rd pick. In your post you stated we would give up pick 21, 53, and our 5th. I don't think Seimian is worth even a 7th rd pick so my question to you would be do you think Taylor is worth a high 2rd rd pick? The variables are Taylor's worth and Seimian's worth, that is why I said a 2nd or 4th rd pick.

[transplantbillsfan]

48 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I don't know what Seimian is worth in a trade? So basically if Seiman and Taylor are a wash than their is 502 missing points. I'm not really sure what Taylor's worth in a trade would be so I put high 2nd to high 4th rd pick. In your post you stated we would give up pick 21, 53, and our 5th. I don't think Seimian is worth even a 7th rd pick so my question to you would be do you think Taylor is worth a high 2rd rd pick? The variables are Taylor's worth and Seimian's worth, that is why I said a 2nd or 4th rd pick.

 

Look, like I said, I didn't and haven't looked at any draft chart for this. I'm not looking at one.

 

Taylor's value would increase in a draft day trade if his $6 million bonus were paid out, so I think a 4th or even 3rd round value for him wouldn't be absurd.

 

Siemian, I agree, wouldn't be worth more than a 7th round pick.

 

 

Do with that math whatever you wish in terms of the draft value chart.

Edited February 28, 2018 by transplantbillsfan

[reddogblitz]

On 2/26/2018 at 8:05 AM, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

Bradford is a perfect bridge you just play him until his knees fail then start the rookie. As long as he can get a few games into the season we would be just fine.

 

Worked great with EJ.

On 2/26/2018 at 7:08 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

It may mean "nothing to you", but based on our team going 9-7 and reaching playoffs in a year where it would have helped our draft position to lose, it's not clear it means "nothing" to McBeane and company.

 

The only thing that matters to Coach McDermott is winning no matter what it takes. Benching his starter at 6-5. Unbenching him. Punting with 4:00 to play in OT.  Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about it. Defend our dirt. Its all about winning now. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by reddogblitz

[NastyNateSoldiers]

7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Ummm, I just thanked you for taking me off your ignore list.

 

Why are you so upset?

 

Can we stay on topic, please.

 

Well, Taylor and Siemian don't cancel out because Taylor has more value than Siemian.

 

So there's the explanation for the original values.

 

Not sure what the snarkiness means, so I'll ask you this question again and even explain for you.

 

Here are your exact words regarding Bradford: "I'll take my chances between 2015 & 2016 he played 29gms hopefully we get him to get bk to that form"

 

Sam Bradford in 29 games from 2015-2016

249 Net yards per game

7.0 YPA passing

39 TDs

27 turnovers

 

That's real.  I didn't make any of that up.  That's what you're saying you prefer locking this team to in a multi-year deal over Tyrod Taylor and his one year deal.

 

And oh look, in 2015-2016 Taylor also started 29 games

235 Net yards per game

7.4 YPA passing

47 TDs

15 turnovers

 

 

So, is this really an "I want Bradford" thing or is this a "I'll cut my nose off to spite my face!" thing?

 

I don't want Bradford for long term deal.  Where did u get that from? If we signed him even if it was multiple yrs it would be a easy contract to get out of. I'm thinking a 1yr deal for 10mil and 500k a gm incentive.  That can equal out to 18mil for Bradford.  Btw i love how u put up the Net yds stat instead just the passing #s considering the number 1 job of a QB is to throw the ball.  

 

Do u really think Bradford will get big money deal with alot of guarantee  $ ? I think a team would be absolutely insane to do that. 

 

People here say how Tyrod led us to the playoffs if that's the case u got to also give him credit for leading us to -57 pt differential.  That's worse then the Bears and the Bucs. I tend to look at it a different way i say Tyrod was just a passenger on the bus not the driver. 

 

We know what Tyrod is and i truly believe at this pt that he's a waste of time he's not gonna get us to where want to go.  Even if he's a bridge i feel like its wasting a yr watching him play and i don't like throwing yrs away. I'd rather give a guy like Bradford a chance while developing my rookie QB. Bradford if healthy is way better QB then the game manager that Tyrod is . I'm willing to roll the dice on Bradford especially since he's healthy now . From the reports by Dr James Andrew's  Bradford knees are sound and he's ready to go for OTAs .

Edited February 28, 2018 by NastyNateSoldiers

[transplantbillsfan]

7 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

For someone that thinks the rep points are a joke.   Why do you keep using them?   

 

Are you adding any real value by doing so?

 

 

 

If you want to converse converse and don’t act like a child.  

 

Shady, I want to thank you for the advice. I use rep for others because I know there are those who value it and sometimes it's better to give rep than respond, is it not?

 

 

Now that I've pushed you over 1000, are the balloons colorful and the kittens playful?

[transplantbillsfan]

22 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I don't want Bradford for long term deal.  Where did u get that from? If we signed him even if it was multiple yrs it would be a easy contract to get out of. I'm thinking a 1yr deal for 10mil and 500k a gm incentive.  That can equal out to 18mil for Bradford.  Btw i love how u put up the Net yds stat instead just the passing #s considering the number 1 job of a QB is to throw the ball.  

 

Do u really think Bradford will get big money deal with alot of guarantee  $ ? I think a team would be absolutely insane to do that. 

 

Yes, I put up net yards.

 

Does it bother you that Taylor and Bradford were less than 15 yards apart in terms of per game production?

 

Or does it bother you that purely as a passer Taylor was actually more efficient?

 

Or does it bother you that Taylor had 8 more TDs and 12 fewer turnovers than Bradford in a 29 game span that you're evidently just raving over for Bradford?

 

 

Just a bit confused... let's just stick a fork in Bradford already... he's not the QB you're looking for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That last phrase will only have the desired impact if you picture an old man in a robe named Obi Wan waiving his hand in front of you and saying that at the same time

[NastyNateSoldiers]

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yes, I put up net yards.

 

Does it bother you that Taylor and Bradford were less than 15 yards apart in terms of per game production?

 

Or does it bother you that purely as a passer Taylor was actually more efficient?

 

Or does it bother you that Taylor had 8 more TDs and 12 fewer turnovers than Bradford in a 29 game span that you're evidently just raving over for Bradford?

 

 

Just a bit confused... let's just stick a fork in Bradford already... he's not the QB you're looking for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That last phrase will only have the desired impact if you picture an old man in a robe named Obi Wan waiving his hand in front of you and saying that at the same time

U still trying to debate who's the better QB. Did u see the Rodak stats on Tyrod when he's down by 8 or less in the 4th . Man pretty impressive for mediocre.  Tyrod sucks . 

 

Btw Bradford didn't have the comfort of the #1 Rushing attack in the NFL during that time period actually for those 2 seasons the Bills were far and away the best rushing team in the NFL.  I'd have to think if Bradford had that luxury he would make defenses pay dearly. Tyrod couldn't even take advantage of that by posting the mediocre #s that he did. 

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Why do they have to do this?

 

My full explanation for why is in my previous post in the thread. And it is not based on emotion. It is based on cold, hard, reason. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

13 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

For someone that thinks the rep points are a joke.   Why do you keep using them?   

 

Are you adding any real value by doing so?

 

 

 

If you want to converse converse and don’t act like a child.  

 

Ummm, I just thanked you for taking me off your ignore list.

 

Why are you so upset?

 

Can we stay on topic, please.

You really are a child.   

I am not upset as much as you would love to think.    I'm trying to figure out why you abuse the tools provided by @SDS  

you stalk me around the boards just to give me smiley faces?   That sir is sad, very sad.  

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Shady, I want to thank you for the advice. I use rep for others because I know there are those who value it and sometimes it's better to give rep than respond, is it not?

 

 

Now that I've pushed you over 1000, are the balloons colorful and the kittens playful?

 

 

says the one who calls others immature.

Edited February 28, 2018 by DaBillsFanSince1973