Dolphins place franchise tag on Jarvis Landry; permission to seek trade

[Chuck Wagon]

I expect a tag and trade. There were rumblings that teams were going to be hot and heavy on him in FA. Now Phins can keep him away from NE (who I think would have been pretty aggressive for him) and pick up an asset to potentially help move up for a QB. 

[BuffaloRush]

6 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I expect a tag and trade. There were rumblings that teams were going to be hot and heavy on him in FA. Now Phins can keep him away from NE (who I think would have been pretty aggressive for him) and pick up an asset to potentially help move up for a QB. 

 

Problem is Miami has no leverage.  Teams shouldn’t offer a high pick for Landry because what’s the alternative?  He destroys much of Miami’s salary cap.  If I’m and NFL GM, I don’t offer anything higher than a 5th or 6th

[MAJBobby]

Good job MIA. Yoh now have a 16M slot WR. 

[PolishDave]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

Problem is Miami has no leverage.  Teams shouldn’t offer a high pick for Landry because what’s the alternative?  He destroys much of Miami’s salary cap.  If I’m and NFL GM, I don’t offer anything higher than a 5th or 6th

 

Who cares about their salary cap issues though besides teams in the AFC East?    He is a high demand receiver.   Somebody is probably going to deal for him and pay a lot for it.

[Manther]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

 

Wowsers.  Just interesting on many levels.

[Captain Murica]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But is that a product of his ability or the product of terrible offensive schemes and terrible QB play?

 

Landry is a talented WR, and if he was on a team with a real QB and offense his YPC would look quite different IMO.  

 

Totally get what you’re implying, but two out of his 4 years he’s averaged less than 10 ypc. He’s not a game changer like the rest of his class or the wide receivers that he is getting paid close to or more than annually. Yes, it’s one year, and he’s racking up receptions but he’s not in the class of a Julio, brown, obj, AJ green, Hopkins, and etc. In my opinion, I would roll with Stills, Parker, and Grant and use that money else where. Let some other team sign this head case to a long and expensive contract. 

 

By all means let them waste the little cap space they will eventually have on a very good slot receiver. Mind you, after he signs the phins will have 32 million wrapped up into their wr position which is 2nd in the league for a team without a franchise qb(if they cut bait with Tannehill) and finished 6-10. This benefits us. 

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I expect a tag and trade. There were rumblings that teams were going to be hot and heavy on him in FA. Now Phins can keep him away from NE (who I think would have been pretty aggressive for him) and pick up an asset to potentially help move up for a QB. 

 

And that means Fins are done before UFA even starts as they have to account for the 16M. They are now 8M over cap. 

10 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Who cares about their salary cap issues though besides teams in the AFC East?    He is a high demand receiver.   Somebody is probably going to deal for him and pay a lot for it.

 

Nah they wont. Landry Might get a 2nd round pick at best. 

[Manther]

4 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

IMO this was not the best move from a cap standpoint.  Landry is a great WR but I don’t think his value is close to $16 M. It’s going to hurt what they can do on the FA market.   I also feel that Landry wants out of Miami which probably happens in 2019.  

Hmmm, my first thought is this is good for us and bad for the Fish.

 

It also takes the Fish out of FA market  for a top QB based on cap.  Probably?

 

so, hopefully they stick with Tannahill AND stay out of the 1st round of this years QB extravaganza.

 

Hopefully, the Jets sign Cousins too, eating up close to $30 million in cap space.  And, removing their need to draft a QB at #6.

 

Lets cheer for good things and keep it going!

[MJS]

Good. It will prevent them from signing more talent.

[Alphadawg7]

43 minutes ago, Captain Murica said:

 

Totally get what you’re implying, but two out of his 4 years he’s averaged less than 10 ypc. He’s not a game changer like the rest of his class or the wide receivers that he is getting paid close to or more than annually. Yes, it’s one year, and he’s racking up receptions but he’s not in the class of a Julio, brown, obj, AJ green, Hopkins, and etc. In my opinion, I would roll with Stills, Parker, and Grant and use that money else where. Let some other team sign this head case to a long and expensive contract. 

 

By all means let them waste the little cap space they will eventually have on a very good slot receiver. Mind you, after he signs the phins will have 32 million wrapped up into their wr position which is 2nd in the league for a team without a franchise qb(if they cut bait with Tannehill) and finished 6-10. This benefits us. 

 

Totally get where you are coming from too, and agree that its puzzling how much the Dolphins look like will have tied up at WR, and really in 3 players of Landry, Tannehill, and Suh.  

 

I do think his low YPC though is a function of a poor offense more than his ability.  He has always kind of reminded me of Jimmy Smith who was a very good WR.  I think if he could get out of Miami and onto a team that has an offense and QB to use him more effectively, that he could a much better WR than he's even been in Miami.  He wont be a game breaker like say AB or some of the other WR's were, but I think he can be a very good and productive WR like Jimmy Smith was in a better situation.    

[YoloinOhio]

 

[YoloinOhio]

NFC please 

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

NFC please 

 

I'd prefer if some moron team from the AFC gives him $15M AAV.  Wouldn't you much rather have a guy like Alshon Jeffery for $13M per?

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I'd prefer if some moron team from the AFC gives him $15M AAV.  Wouldn't you much rather have a guy like Alshon Jeffery for $13M per?

Perception is a funny thing.

 

Landry has averaged more yards, catches and TD's over the last 3 years compared to Alshon.

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Perception is a funny thing.

 

Landry has averaged more yards, catches and TD's over the last 3 years compared to Alshon.

 

Because he outpaces him in targets by 40%

 

Look at 2017 alone: Landry gets 161 targets to Jeffery's 120, but manages a mere 200 more yards on 55 additional receptions, and they had the same number of TDs.

 

My points is simply this: Landry is a guy that needs a crazy number of targets in order to produce anything close to WR1 numbers.  In contrast, guys with similar number of targets like Antonio Brown, Larry Fitzgerald, Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas, and Julio Jones manage to produce far more yards and a far greater number of big plays.  I'm not willing to pay a guy like Landry the same coin as those guys for lesser production.  He's a chain-mover; the job he does can be done by lower-paid players with negligible difference in overall offensive output.  Case-in-point: look at the numbers produced by guys like Golden Tate, Adam Thielen, Mo Sanu, and Doug Baldwin on fewer targets.  The on-field value to what he brings isn't worth the kind of money he's seeking, and that's without factoring in his attitude.

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Because he outpaces him in targets by 40%

 

Look at 2017 alone: Landry gets 161 targets to Jeffery's 120, but manages a mere 200 more yards on 55 additional receptions, and they had the same number of TDs.

 

My points is simply this: Landry is a guy that needs a crazy number of targets in order to produce anything close to WR1 numbers.  In contrast, guys with similar number of targets like Antonio Brown, Larry Fitzgerald, Keenan Allen, Michael Thomas, and Julio Jones manage to produce far more yards and a far greater number of big plays.  I'm not willing to pay a guy like Landry the same coin as those guys for lesser production.  He's a chain-mover; the job he does can be done by lower-paid players with negligible difference in overall offensive output.  Case-in-point: look at the numbers produced by guys like Golden Tate, Adam Thielen, Mo Sanu, and Doug Baldwin on fewer targets.  The on-field value to what he brings isn't worth the kind of money he's seeking, and that's without factoring in his attitude.

Where's the per target comparison of Alshon and Landry?

 

Extra catches for 6, 7, 8 yards often times move the sticks.  They have value, even though we pretend like 20 yard passes are all that matter.

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Where's the per target comparison of Alshon and Landry?

 

Extra catches for 6, 7, 8 yards often times move the sticks.  They have value, even though we pretend like 20 yard passes are all that matter.

 

NFL.com's next gen stats does a pretty decent job of encapsulating the data.  If we're talking about moving the sticks, Landry had 16 more first downs--1 per game--than Jeffery (who, again, is simply a guy that I picked as an example).

 

Per ESPN, every single one of the guys that I listed above with similar targets (Brown, Fitz, Allen, Thomas, and Julio) had more receptions for 1st downs than Landry in 2017.

 

If the guy produces fewer yards, TDs, and 1st downs than guys with similar target share, why am I supposed to pay him like those guys?  If I'm Miami, I'd much rather let him walk, get my comp pick in 2019, and draft someone on day 2 that can produce nearly the same numbers for 10% of what Landry will cost.

[BringBackOrton]

30 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

NFL.com's next gen stats does a pretty decent job of encapsulating the data.  If we're talking about moving the sticks, Landry had 16 more first downs--1 per game--than Jeffery (who, again, is simply a guy that I picked as an example).

 

Per ESPN, every single one of the guys that I listed above with similar targets (Brown, Fitz, Allen, Thomas, and Julio) had more receptions for 1st downs than Landry in 2017.

 

If the guy produces fewer yards, TDs, and 1st downs than guys with similar target share, why am I supposed to pay him like those guys?  If I'm Miami, I'd much rather let him walk, get my comp pick in 2019, and draft someone on day 2 that can produce nearly the same numbers for 10% of what Landry will cost.

1 more first down per game is one more drive extended per game.

 

Brown's average salary is $17M

 

Green signed a deal with AAV of $15M 3 years ago.

 

Davante Adams plays with Aaron Rodgers and put up JAG numbers and got $14.5M AAV

 

With the cap going up, $15M AAV is not too big of a price.

Edited February 26, 2018 by jmc12290

[thebandit27]

10 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

1 more first down per game is one more drive extended per game.

 

Brown's average salary is $17M

 

Green signed a deal with AAV of $15M 3 years ago.

 

Davante Adams plays with Aaron Rodgers and put up JAG numbers and got $14.5M AAV

 

With the cap going up, $15M AAV is not too big of a price.

 

You are making my point with these numbers.

 

The Adams contract was silly; there's absolutely no way that Landry should be getting anywhere near the money that Brown or Green get.  Again, I cite guys like Adam Thielen, Doug Baldwin, and Golden Tate, who produce on par with Landry for far, far less money.

 

Hey, I hope Miami or NE or someone in the AFC decides to pay Landry.  Go right ahead.  It's not my team, and it's not my money...and I'm grateful that both are true.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

 

You are making my point with these numbers.

 

The Adams contract was silly; there's absolutely no way that Landry should be getting anywhere near the money that Brown or Green get.  Again, I cite guys like Adam Thielen, Doug Baldwin, and Golden Tate, who produce on par with Landry for far, far less money.

 

Hey, I hope Miami or NE or someone in the AFC decides to pay Landry.  Go right ahead.  It's not my team, and it's not my money...and I'm grateful that both are true.

Adam Thielen's deal came after his "fluke" year.  Tate's deal came after 4 JAG years with the Hawks.  Baldwin's deal came after his first year putting up 1k yards after 4 JAG years.

 

They aren't really comparable.

[Kirby Jackson]

8 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

1 more first down per game is one more drive extended per game.

 

Brown's average salary is $17M

 

Green signed a deal with AAV of $15M 3 years ago.

 

Davante Adams plays with Aaron Rodgers and put up JAG numbers and got $14.5M AAV

 

With the cap going up, $15M AAV is not too big of a price.

It certainly is for a volume-based possession receiver. Nick O’Leary had more 20 yard receptions last year! You can find guys to move the chains for a lot less. 

 

Last year Landry caught 69.6% of his targets, averaged 6.13 yards per target and scored a TD on 5.6% of his targets.

 

Robert Woods caught 65.9% of his targets, averaged 9.19 yards per target and scored a TD on 5.9% of his targets.

 

Landry is not worth double what Woods is. 

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It certainly is for a volume-based possession receiver. Nick O’Leary had more 20 yard receptions last year! You can find guys to move the chains for a lot less. 

 

Last year Landry caught 69.6% of his targets, averaged 6.13 yards per target and scored a TD on 5.6% of his targets.

 

Robert Woods caught 65.9% of his targets, averaged 9.19 yards per target and scored a TD on 5.9% of his targets.

 

Landry is not worth double what Woods is. 

Woods had the best WR in sports playing opposite him to distract #1 CB's.

 

Also, didn't you say the Rams overpaid Woods once upon a time?

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Adam Thielen's deal came after his "fluke" year.  Tate's deal came after 4 JAG years with the Hawks.  Baldwin's deal came after his first year putting up 1k yards after 4 JAG years.

 

They aren't really comparable.

 

I don't think you're getting it.

 

The point here is very, very simple: you don't need to pay a guy $15M per to do what Landry does; you can find much cheaper options to play that role.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't think you're getting it.

 

The point here is very, very simple: you don't need to pay a guy $15M per to do what Landry does; you can find much cheaper options to play that role.

Sure.  You can also end up with Andre Holmes and Jordan Matthews as your top 2 WR's too.

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Sure.  You can also end up with Andre Holmes and Jordan Matthews as your top 2 WR's too.

 

And what happened when Jordan Matthews got over 100 targets?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/16763/jordan-matthews

 

Odd how similar his production-per-target numbers are to Landry's in those first 3 seasons isn't it?

Edited February 26, 2018 by thebandit27

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

And what happened when Jordan Matthews got over 100 targets?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/16763/jordan-matthews

 

 

Right.  "Jordan Matthews can do what Sammy can do way cheaper!"  #2017Things

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Woods had the best WR in sports playing opposite him to distract #1 CB's.

 

Also, didn't you say the Rams overpaid Woods once upon a time?

I did say that and still believe it. I pulled him out as a random example. Landry’s success is a product of targets not playmaking ability.

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

And what happened when Jordan Matthews got over 100 targets?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/16763/jordan-matthews

 

 

 

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

Right.  "Jordan Matthews can do what Sammy can do way cheaper!"  #2017Things

This we can all agree on; Jordan Matthews is not good at football.

[thebandit27]

4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Right.  "Jordan Matthews can do what Sammy can do way cheaper!"  #2017Things

 

Actually, my exact comments from 2017 were that there's not one thing that Matthews can do as well as Sammy, including stay healthy.  Guess I was right.

 

And, amazingly, you're still missing the point.

 

Sammy showed with the Rams the exact same traits that he showed here: that he's dominant when he's targeted.  He doesn't get the targets for some reason...part of it is that McVay's offense is doing with WRs what Spagnuolo's defense did with pass rushers back in 2007; he's discovered that if he dresses 6 quality WRs and rotates them in bunches, opposing CBs who have to play 70+ snaps per game can't keep up (Spags did this with pass rushers and OTs who have to play 70+ snaps).

 

What has Landry shown?  He's shown that he can produce a lot of receptions and mediocre yardage/TD/first down totals if given a glut of targets.  Hooray, let's pay him like he's elite.

Edited February 26, 2018 by thebandit27

[Freddie's Dead]

POS player for a POS franchise.  They deserve each other.

[Jay_Fixit]

You two are badgering back and forth yet nobody has mentioned the ridiculously underwhelming, running back-esque 8.8 yards per catch Landry had this last year.

 

That’s a JAG number and a number that should say to a team that “hey gang, I’m not worth this franchise tag money, yo.”

[sleeby]

On 2/20/2018 at 10:18 PM, Misterbluesky said:

Not a chance in hell he would be welcomed here after Murphy's comments on the radio during the Miami home game.He punked him good..

What was said?

[Misterbluesky]

3 minutes ago, sleeby said:

What was said?

Murphy called him trash. Outright.

[LA Grant]

Garbage player all around. In a theoretical league that actually punished cheap shots, Jarvis Landry wouldn't be in it. Hopefully he's traded out of the division, but ideally he's out of the league. to paraphrase one D. DeVito — "Jarvis Landry retire b*tch"

[thebandit27]

9 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

You two are badgering back and forth yet nobody has mentioned the ridiculously underwhelming, running back-esque 8.8 yards per catch Landry had this last year.

 

That’s a JAG number and a number that should say to a team that “hey gang, I’m not worth this franchise tag money, yo.”

 

Nobody mentioned his meager production?

 

Gee, I feel like I said it in every single post

[GG]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Nobody mentioned his meager production?

 

Gee, I feel like I said it in every single post

 

That would require reading the posts.  You expect way too much.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

How many slot WRs do they need 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Chicken Boo]

On 2/26/2018 at 2:59 PM, jmc12290 said:

Perception is a funny thing.

 

Landry has averaged more yards, catches and TD's over the last 3 years compared to Alshon.

 

And strikes fear into the heart of no defense.

 

?What have you done for me lately??

 

112 rec. 987 yards

 

That's not worth $16 million, no matter how you slice it.