Why I Think the Smart Move is Pay to Get Cousins

[bobobonators]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

LOL what talent outside Jordan Reed, who you can arguably say Cousins made (as he's put up his big numbers since 2014 with Cousins and not Griffin? His LT is an All Pro and what else...DeSean Jackson was on the downslide until Cousins went in and basically got him a new contract in TB...you can see how that worked out for his 'talent' this year. Garcon is the only one you can legitimately make an argument for as a talented WR, and still he only had one single 1000 yard season before Cousins got him his second in 2016.

I'm also offering facts- this is a reply I made to another guy earlier on in the thread:

 

Over the last 3 years (Cousins became starter in 2015), here are his NFL ranks among qualified active starters:

 

3rd in comp%

4th in yards

8th in TDs

6th in rating (if you like qb rating, because if you don't...)

 

5th in ANY/A (my personal favorite)...which takes into account the amount of sacks he takes (it's a lot) due to what IMO is a bad Washington line.

 

also 7th, 3rd, and 16th (a down year in 2017) by DYAR if you're a Football Outsiders kind of guy...and he's done all this with the kind of offensive weapons that Bills fans would scoff at. He is in no way pedestrian. Cousins is a legit talent and the fact that he might be available is crazy...I don't understand why people wouldn't want him. Personally I'd make him the highest paid QB in the NFL and not bat an eye.

Good post. I honestly dont get it either. To be constantly be barraged on these boards by the argument that we need a good QB to only have a good QB available and then flip the argument to well he’s not worth the money is almost like a comedy skit. 

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

The Redskins for whatever reason have avoided making a long term commitment to him. That has to mean something. Teams just don’t let franchise guys walk like they are about to.

 

They tried last year. Cousins's camp has said that they were not going to sign any offer from Washington, no matter how much or how long it was.

 

Which is exactly why he will never NEVER sign in Buffalo. He is pushing himself into FA so he can choose to go to a team with a stable and respected Front Office. Bills might be on the right track now, but we have 30+ years of failure tied to the team.

 

Cousins isnt signing in DC and he isnt signing in Buffalo.

[bobobonators]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

They tried last year. Cousins's camp has said that they were not going to sign any offer from Washington, no matter how much or how long it was.

 

Which is exactly why he will never NEVER sign in Buffalo. He is pushing himself into FA so he can choose to go to a team with a stable and respected Front Office. Bills might be on the right track now, but we have 30+ years of failure tied to the team.

 

Cousins isnt signing in DC and he isnt signing in Buffalo.

Where is he signing? 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

5 hours ago, Pbomb said:

 

If it wasnt your opinion why would you post it then. According to these stats we should be able to get atleast a first round pick for tyrod then, hopefully other gms use pff to grade players talent

 

You think anyone who posts an article adopts its contents as his or her opinion? That's as ridiculous as the Marrone coaching tree theory. 

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He's had Reed, Garcon, Jackson, and Crowder as his slot receiver with a decent RB in Alfred Morris. Not to mention Sean McVay as his play caller.  That's a pretty good situation for a QB. LOL at your lack of understanding that he's been supported well until this season decimated the OL and RB positions. 

And hes put up 9000 yards and 54 TDs with them.  What more do you want a QB to do? 

[GoBills808]

Just now, bobobonators said:

Good post. I honestly dont get it either. To be constantly be barraged on these boards by the argument that we need a good QB to only have a good QB available and then flip the argument to well he’s not worth the money is almost like a comedy skit. 

I've just concluded that Bills fans do not know what a good QB looks like anymore. Because trying to talk yourself out of a FA like Cousins is laughable.

 

26CornerBlitz: Jamison Crowder is a product of Cousins and not the other way around. You may not like it but it's the truth. That's why he lasted until the 4th round: he's a marginal talent that got lucky in linking up with a guy who can get him the ball in Cousins.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Good post. I honestly dont get it either. To be constantly be barraged on these boards by the argument that we need a good QB to only have a good QB available and then flip the argument to well he’s not worth the money is almost like a comedy skit. 

 

If he's such a great QB with so many teams in need, then it should be an easy decision for Washington to keep him. Yet he may be on the market. 

[Scott7975]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You wouldn't want an owner like Snyder either.

Yes that is what I was getting at.  The team is run poor.

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

They tried last year. Cousins's camp has said that they were not going to sign any offer from Washington, no matter how much or how long it was.

 

Which is exactly why he will never NEVER sign in Buffalo. He is pushing himself into FA so he can choose to go to a team with a stable and respected Front Office. Bills might be on the right track now, but we have 30+ years of failure tied to the team.

 

Cousins isnt signing in DC and he isnt signing in Buffalo.

Really?  I mentioned earlier go read the recent article about him in SI.  He is all about process.  One can easily see how he and McD would be a perfect fit.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Where is he signing? 

 

He's looking to land in an organization like Denver or the Giants, but not sure either are looking to pay a QB that much, especially when the Giants already have Eli, but that is just an example. I could see Cousins holding out for a "better team", but then ending up in AZ.

[bobobonators]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

If he's such a great QB with so many teams in need, then it should be an easy decision for Washington to keep him. Yet he may be on the market. 

I get that argument too. But you and i know its not that simple. The issue between Wash and Cousins runs deeper than that now. And Wash has been poorly run from the top all the way down to Gruden for years now. 

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I've just concluded that Bills fans do not know what a good QB looks like anymore. Because trying to talk yourself out of a FA like Cousins is laughable.

 

26CornerBlitz: Jamison Crowder is a product of Cousins and not the other way around. You may not like it but it's the truth. That's why he lasted until the 4th round: he's a marginal talent that got lucky in linking up with a guy who can get him the ball in Cousins.

 

Overpaying for a QB not on a franchise level is laughable and why the Bills likely will not do it. 

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Yes that is what I was getting at.  The team is run poor.

There's too much bad blood to keep him. The way their FO dealt with the RG3 thing essentially made the decision.

[bobobonators]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

He's looking to land in an organization like Denver or the Giants, but not sure either are looking to pay a QB that much, especially when the Giants already have Eli, but that is just an example. I could see Cousins holding out for a "better team", but then ending up in AZ.

I could see AZ. 

 

Hes not going to the Giants. The Giants arent going to cut Eli. No way. 

 

Is Denver any more appealing than Buf? (Serious question)

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Really?  I mentioned earlier go read the recent article about him in SI.  He is all about process.  One can easily see how he and McD would be a perfect fit.

 

Sure, they might seem like theyd work well together, but Cousins is in the unique position of being able to be picky. If he thinks Washington is a clown show, Buffalo doesnt look much better in their recent and long term history. I dont think McD's 1 year is enough to prove the Bills organization has completely flipped to a perennial winner.

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

And hes put up 9000 yards and 54 TDs with them.  What more do you want a QB to do? 

 

Lovely numbers that have netted 24 wins in three seasons. Whoopty Doo!

Edited January 14, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[GoBills808]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Overpaying for a QB not on a franchise level is laughable and why the Bills likely will not do it. 

I submitted Cousins is not only a franchise level QB, but current (past 3 years since he became starter) top 5 NFL level. I gave you my stats, where are yours?

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Lovely numbers that has netted 24 wins in three seasons. Whoopty Doo!

QBWINZ omg. Never mind, please don't respond to any more of my comments.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, bobobonators said:

I could see AZ. 

 

Hes not going to the Giants. The Giants arent going to cut Eli. No way. 

 

Is Denver any more appealing than Buf? (Serious question)

 

For people in and around the NFL? Heck yes. Multiple Super Bowls with a recent SB victory. Elway at the helm. Denver is a much more respected franchise.

[Teddy KGB]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Overpaying for a QB not on a franchise level is laughable and why the Bills likely will not do it. 

 

K, we heard you the first 8 times. 

 

In 26 corners fantasy world we make excuses for Tyrod Taylor but trash the qb who threw for 4000 yards and 13 more td’s than our guy  (not Franchise numbers ?) ????????

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I submitted Cousins is not only a franchise level QB, but current (past 3 years since he became starter) top 5 NFL level. I gave you my stats, where are yours?

 

That's your boxscore assessment. Got it. Congratulations. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Sure, they might seem like theyd work well together, but Cousins is in the unique position of being able to be picky. If he thinks Washington is a clown show, Buffalo doesnt look much better in their recent and long term history. I dont think McD's 1 year is enough to prove the Bills organization has completely flipped to a perennial winner.

Fair point, but enough $$$ might ease his mind...

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That's your boxscore assessment. Got it. Congratulations. 

So...nothing? Just more snide? 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Fair point, but enough $$$ might ease his mind...

 

No, no it wont. That's my point. He has said that Washington could offer him the largest contract ever and he wouldnt sign there. He's going to make a ton of money no matter where he goes. It's not just about money, he wants to win and be with a well-run FO.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Lovely numbers that have netted 24 wins in three seasons. Whoopty Doo!

Which has come full circle of it's a team sport, not a QB sport.

[GoBills808]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

No, no it wont. That's my point. He has said that Washington could offer him the largest contract ever and he wouldnt sign there. He's going to make a ton of money no matter where he goes. It's not just about money, he wants to win and be with a well-run FO.

But he said that after the Snyder/RG3 thing AND after the Skins tried to low-ball him at $16M a year. He doesn't want to play in Washington anymore, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't go for Buffalo. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Fair point, but enough $$$ might ease his mind...

So...nothing? Just more snide? 

 

24 wns in three seasons with one playoff appearance. Same as the Bills with him having better offensive personnel, a great system, and better coaching. 

[bobobonators]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For people in and around the NFL? Heck yes. Multiple Super Bowls with a recent SB victory. Elway at the helm. Denver is a much more respected franchise.

That SB win is looking to be further in the rear view mirror everyday. Its a completely different staff now across the board. Elway is a positive I guess.  But right now and going forward id say the Bills are just as positively situated (if not more so due to the draft picks). Buf also has more cap space than Denver. 

 

X Factor can simply be the city itself or Cousins’ family situation. Maybe they would prefer Den over Buf bc of the city/state. Or AZ bc of the climate. Who knows. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...signing Cousins would be bigger than the Brinks robberies of the Cutlet ($54 mil guaranteed) and Flacco ($52 mil guaranteed) COMBINED....mediocrity breeds contempt....

[GoBills808]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

24 wns in three seasons with one playoff appearance. Same as the Bills with him having better offensive personnel, a great system, and better coaching. 

Thank you. We can disagree on personnel (Clay=Reed IMO, and McCoy>whoever they run out there who isn't injured) but that's at least an articulation of your position that I can respect. As far as wins and playoff appearances go, I don't believe QB wins are a real stat...I only go by individual metrics in evaluating a particular player. Better coaching than the Bills I can get on board with before this year.

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

That SB win is looking to be further in the rear view mirror everyday. Its a completely different staff now across the board. Elway is a positive I guess.  But right now and going forward id say the Bills are just as positively situated (if not more so due to the draft picks). Buf also has more cap space than Denver. 

 

X Factor can simply be the city itself or Cousins’ family situation. Maybe they would prefer Den over Buf bc of the city/state. Or AZ bc of the climate. Who knows. 

 

You are saying that as a Bills fan, not as someone who has an outside view and mostly superficial perspective like everyone else in the country. The Bills finally broke the longest playoff drought in all of pro sports this year. Great, hurrah. But we've also had 3 HCs in 4 years and a long history of being a 2nd rate franchise.

 

Agreed on AZ climate, the weather and location is always against us as well.

 

edit: wrt Denver, there are still a number of players from that team left over. Most importantly Von Miller. They could easily convince him that they are just a QB away from being back in the hunt. Especially if they didnt have to use that early pick on a QB this year.

Edited January 14, 2018 by DrDawkinstein

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...signing Cousins would be bigger than the Brinks robberies of the Cutlet ($54 mil guaranteed) and Flacco ($52 mil guaranteed) COMBINED....mediocrity breeds contempt....

Flacco and the Ravens won a SB, they were going to pay him whatever he wanted. That's just how it goes, and rightfully so: if you told me within the next 5 years we'd win a championship but be saddled with a monster Cousins contract that would strap us for 7 years...wouldn't you take that deal every day?

Also OldTime, you don't put up Cousins' numbers being mediocre. He's borderline elite IMO. He's just playing on a mediocre team.

[bobobonators]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You are saying that as a Bills fan, not as someone who has an outside view and mostly superficial perspective like everyone else in the country. The Bills finally broke the longest playoff drought in all of pro sports this year. Great, hurrah. But we've also had 3 HCs in 4 years and a long history of being a 2nd rate franchise.

 

Agreed on AZ climate, the weather and location is always against us as well.

Im saying that as someone who has never lived in Buffalo. Yeh Im a Bills fan but i dont view myself as jaded. Im well aware of where the Bills stand in NFL history. 

 

All im saying is that its not all about history and a FA should take into account the current state of the organization TODAY. The NFL flips over at the speed of light and what happened 2, 5, 10 or 20 yrs ago is irrelevant going forward. Denver isnt GB or Dal; they dont have that kind of clout.

 

i do get what youre saying though and dont completely disagree. We’ll see. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Im saying that as someone who has never lived in Buffalo. Yeh Im a Bills fan but i dont view myself as jaded. Im well aware of where the Bills stand in NFL history. 

 

All im saying is that its not all about history and a FA should take into account the current state of the organization TODAY. The NFL flips over at the speed of light and what happened 2, 5, 10 or 20 yrs ago is irrelevant going forward. Denver isnt GB or Dal; they dont have that kind of clout.

 

i do get what youre saying though and dont completely disagree. We’ll see. 

 

Please understand, these arent my opinions. I'm going off of what I've literally heard Cousins say in interviews. I'm digging hard for a link or something in print, but it wasnt too long ago I saw this. He/his agent basically said that it didnt matter how much the offer from Washington was, they weren't going to sign it last year, and they still arent going to sign it this year. And they've seen enough of a poorly run franchise to prioritize moving to a better FO. Much like how Eli refused San Diego for the Giants, and Elway refused the Colts for Denver.

 

Also, I don't think you are giving the Broncos enough credit, and I dont blame you because I used to think that way as well. I was surprised to learn it, but apparently that franchise is incredibly well respected across the Pro Sports world.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Flacco and the Ravens won a SB, they were going to pay him whatever he wanted. That's just how it goes, and rightfully so: if you told me within the next 5 years we'd win a championship but be saddled with a monster Cousins contract that would strap us for 7 years...wouldn't you take that deal every day?

Also OldTime, you don't put up Cousins' numbers being mediocre. He's borderline elite IMO. He's just playing on a mediocre team.

 

....respected....differing opinions make this place work......certainly Flacco won A SB, but "what have you done for me lately Joe?" would be my question.....sure it was big money then when he got it, but I'd bet the expectation was "we're paying for another...and....."........

[Shaw66]

I'll jump back in.  A couple of things. 

 

First, to reiterate a point I made earlier, I think there's a difference between overpaying for a QB and overpaying for a position player.   If you pay top 3 money to a receiver or a tackle or a linebacker who turns out to be top 10 at his position, you've overpaid and it was a mistake.    You could have gotten as effective a guy for a lot less.   Like Sammy.   The Bills paid two first round picks plus for a guy who performed like several guys they could have gotten with one pick.   So that was a mistake. 

 

At QB it's different.   If you pay top 3 money for a QB who turns out to be the 10th best QB in the league, it's not a mistake.    You're paying too much, but it isn't a mistake, because you couldn't have gotten another guy who's 10th best.   They just aren't easy to find.  

 

More importantly, if you have the 10th best receiver, or 10th best offensive tackle, that guy isn't on his own putting you in the playoff conversation year in and year out.   If you have the 10th best QB, you are in the conversation.    

 

If you pay top 3 money for a QB and he turns out to be the 15th best AB, then you've made a mistake, because the 15th best QB DOESN'T put you in the playoff discussion.  

 

Yes, whoever gets Cousins will have overpaid for him.   But I think it won't be a mistake. 

 

Second, a lot of the discussion has turned to whether Cousins would come to Buffalo.   Someone said there's an SI article about what he's looking for and how McD is the kind of guy he'd like.  I'll need to go find that article - my sense has been exactly that.   Cousins is a guy who LIKES being in a program, a system, where everyone has a role and where he can do his.    

 

I don't think people should overlook the ability of OBD to sell itself now.   Terry and Kim are a very attractive pair - they're pleasant, warm, charming, and earnest.   The simple fact that they're spending BILLIONS of dollars because they want to do something for Buffalo is pretty impressive.  It speaks to their sincerity.   Then you get to Bean and McDermott, two guys who are interest, deadly serious and committed.   They LOOK like winners.    That's a pretty impressive package.   

 

So I think if the Bills decide that Cousins is someone they want, I think they'll be willing to spend and they'll sell themselves quite well. 

 

The Giants, by virtue of tradition and market, would be formidable competition.   I don't think they'd shy away from the bidding just because they have Eli.  They'd find a way to deal with the cap and compensation issues.   The Giants problem is they don't have a coach, and the team actually is in much more disarray than the Bills.   The Bills offer a stable package going forward; the Giants are up in the air.   

 

The Broncos would seem to be more attractive.   Elway is an attraction.   There probably are other things that might make the Broncos a place he'd like. 

 

But let's go back to the Bills for a minute.   I think there are some other things, intangibles, that might make Buffalo especially attractive to him.   One is the challenge of bringing a championship to the city.    But think about this:

 

Cousins is from Illinois, I think.   He went to high school in Michigan, played at Michigan State, and has played pro ball on the East Coast.   His parents now live in Florida.   I think he's and east coast/midwest guy, and Denver may have little geographic appeal to him.  

 

Moreover, his father's a pastor, he went to a Christian high school, he participated in Athletes in Action in college.   McD and I believe Beane are serious Christians - they don't beat people over the head with it, so far as I can tell, but if Cousins is a serious Christian, there's a good chance he's going to feel a connection to McD.   And having an owner who lives in Florida where is parents live is another connection.  

 

Not saying it's going to happen, but I don't think it's far-fetched.  

[DrDawkinstein]

If Rothlisberger retires, I could see Cousins going to Pittsburgh.

[Royale with Cheese]

30 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Lovely numbers that have netted 24 wins in three seasons. Whoopty Doo!

 

I’ve read the argument several times that the reason Taylor wasn’t more successful here is because if the defense.... specifically the Rex Ryan years.  Why can’t the same argument be made for Cousins who have had a worse defense?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

If Rothlisberger retires, I could see Cousins going to Pittsburgh.

 

 

....Denver wouldn't surprise me....Elway is under a ton of pressure about the QB spot.......why we could trade TT for Brock straight up as well.......

[njbuff]

I'm telling you folks the Giants #2 pick is in play and the Bills can go get it if they think Darnold or Rosen is that franchise guy.

 

If you listen to Paul Dottino, the Giants beat guy who has as big a pulse as anyone on the Giants, says the new GM likes the Giants QB situation now and for the long term (Manning and Webb).

 

The Giants want to build their team and they want more draft picks that can help their cause.

 

The Bills have the ammo to do it and if the Giants think Glenn is healthy, watch out. If the Giants don't trust Glenn being healthy, then the Bills could have a hard tim moving up to 2.

[26CornerBlitz]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I’ve read the argument several times that the reason Taylor wasn’t more successful here is because if the defense.... specifically the Rex Ryan years.  Why can’t the same argument be made for Cousins who have had a worse defense?

 

Their defense has been pretty much on the same level as the Bills.  Aside from that, Cousins isn't a great decision maker and he throws for big yards because of the offense he plays in with a high volume of pass attempts. 

[Shaw66]

Here's the SI article.   Read it and tell me he doesn't sound like McDermott's man.  The two guys live for process. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/11/29/kirk-cousins-washington-redskins-quarterback

 

One more thing.   He won't say it, but I really believe McDermott's role model is Belichick.   Belichick has succeeded with process and nerdy QB - a guy determined to win, determined to prove that everyone was wrong about him.   That sounds like Cousins.