LABILLBACKER Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said: so anyways.... moving on to next year and the players that are on the current roster....... God really....these Watkins, Dareus threads need to end. Get over it people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Peter said: Yes, he got suspended. Yes, he was late. Those are situations that can be managed with a guy who is well liked among his teammates. If he were a d-bag and hated by his teammates, I would agree with you. Yes, he was a nice guy who his teammates have said they liked. He was suspended multiple times and unavailable due to injury quite a lot too. Bottom line, he was unreliable as a teammate and employee. He has talent, but has been in the league several years and hasn't seemed to mature much at all. Add that he has not performed at a high level since he got his new contract and it seems easy to me to conclude that this was addition by subtraction. A person in an organization does not have to be purposely disruptive to have a negative impact on that organization. In Dareus' case, his lack of effort, commitment, conditioning, buy-in and accountability were strongly counter to the culture that they are trying to build. Dareus was the opposite of a leader - he was someone who needed prodding to do the minimum expected and even then he wasn't doing it. Kyle Williams may have liked Dareus, but I am sure he doesn't miss having to baby-sit him and doesn't miss being impacted by his absences due to suspensions and injury (due to lack of conditioning). Maybe, being sent packing will *finally* be the wake-up call that causes Dareus to ramp up his effort and meet his responsibility level - I hope so. I wish him well. Edited January 10, 2018 by OldTimer1960 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: You know where I hear they have great strippers? SACKSONVILLE!! Is that in Duuuuuuuvalllll? (Also, every time I do this @YoloinOhio) Welcomes To Sacksonville. When the average age of the stripper pushes 30 and the best conversation I have with them is about their cardio at the gym, c'mon. I asked what she did for fun. She is supposed to say she is a good girl going back to school or she is interested in acting and modeling. Not that she takes care of her 3 kids during the day while her boyfriend who she just got back with is at work. And say if you want to see me or dance for you come find me. No, you find me. I got what you want. I rolled in there with $100 in ones in my boot. And $280 in cash. I spent $14 for that experience. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 32 minutes ago, Peter said: Let's create more and more holes and still have dead cap space in 2018. None of these guys you list are d-bags. They are all well liked among teammates. One of those guys even had the fortitude to come back from a kidney operation. Clay may be our most dependable receiver. Hughes is the only guy that gets any pressure on the QB on a team that had significantly fewer sacks/QB pressures than last year. Dareus (as a tackle) does a lot that does not necessarily show up on the stat sheet and still will take up at least the third highest amount of cap space in 2018. McCoy is the best player on the team. Tyrod was on a reasonable contract this past year. His future depends on other options going forward. Sammy's contract is over this year. The Rams, Bills, Pats, whoever all have the option to pay him whatever he is worth. The same is true with EJ Gaines (for whom Sammy was traded). And yet you still miss the point, maybe because you supported Whaley's strategy of collecting players as opposed to building a team. Each of those players, other than Shady has not lived up to the contract, and the holes you cite can be replaced by middle of the road players. It's not like Beane & McDermott tossed Kelly, Thurman, Reed & Smith in their primes. Bills did not get appreciably worse by getting rid of Watkins, Darby, & Ragland, and getting rid of Dareus had to happen prior to the deadline because he wouldn't bring any assets in return if they held onto him through this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said: Yes, he was a nice guy who his teammates have said they liked. He was suspended multiple times and unavailable due to injury quite a lot too. Bottom line, he was unreliable as a teammate and employee. He has talent, but has been in the league several years and hasn't seemed to mature much at all. Add that he has not performed at a high level since he got his new contract and it seems easy to me to conclude that this was addition by subtraction. A person in an organization does not have to be purposely disruptive to have a negative impact on that organization. In Dareus' case, his lack of effort, commitment, conditioning, buy-in and accountability were strongly counter to the culture that they are trying to build. Dareus was the opposite of a leader - he was someone who needed prodding to do the minimum expected and even then he wasn't doing it. Kyle Williams may have liked Dareus, but I am sure he doesn't miss having to baby-sit him and doesn't miss being impacted by his absences due to suspensions and injury (due to lack of conditioning). Maybe, being sent packing will *finally* be the wake-up call that causes Dareus to ramp up his effort and meet his responsibility level - I hope so. I wish him well. perfect post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: For not having the FO.Coaching structure to develop these big talents, and instead let these KIDS spiral down a bad path. This is the SECOND time in the last month where one of our TOP 5 draft picks has had a change of life after leaving the Bills. Dareus saw a new DC come and go EVERY YEAR he was here. Watkins was left to be a diva. Hopefully McBeane can get this under control, and I personally think they are on the right path to do so. But the second-rate soft culture of losing that permeates every office at OBD is a major cause of the talent flame out we've seen over the years. I won't disagree with this but I would like to add: I think Sammy and Marcel getting traded was a bit of a wake up call to each of them. They were fawned over for their careers whether it was warranted or not. They are both immensely talented players and I think they might have a had an aura of "I'm untouchable" to them. When they got traded they realized anyone can be moved on from. We saw the reflection from Sammy about his time here. That immaturity should have been handled here and speaks to your post but the Rex show didn't help either of those guys imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, yungmack said: If you truly believe the Bills got the best of the KB for Darby trade, thank de Lawd you're not the GM. Darby isn't any better than Gaines. And a bonus: Gaines isn't a rape enabler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, GG said: Come back to this thread if Jags keep Dareus next year under the existing contract. Got that right. He’s the highest paid two down DT in history at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, section122 said: I won't disagree with this but I would like to add: I think Sammy and Marcel getting traded was a bit of a wake up call to each of them. They were fawned over for their careers whether it was warranted or not. They are both immensely talented players and I think they might have a had an aura of "I'm untouchable" to them. When they got traded they realized anyone can be moved on from. We saw the reflection from Sammy about his time here. That immaturity should have been handled here and speaks to your post but the Rex show didn't help either of those guys imo. Totally agree. Unfortunately, the Bills served as "the lesson" for both players. And I guess I should clarify, my beef on this is with the previous coaches and FO and both the current and previous ownership. I think McBeane did the ABSOLUTE CORRECT thing given the situation. Both players were unfortunately too far gone and were more trouble in a very sensitive locker room than they were worth. McD couldnt risk trying to invest years into getting them back on track when they didnt want to get back on track, and would have just sandbagged his attempt at a culture change. Edited January 10, 2018 by DrDawkinstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Does this mean he will not come out to camp this year 30 pounds overweight? Has he decided to actually read the playbook? Maybe he has good given up partying at strip clubs before games? Oh yeah, he did not do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said: The way you wrote it seemed to me like you were summarizing the articles. So I can believe you that the staff made no effort to help a premiere talent to achieve his potential, which would be totally against their own self interest, or I can dismiss it because you offer no evidence and also seem to be trolling. I will leave it to you to guess which way I think of it. If the massive contract was the primary issue, why would they make any effort to keep the guy or work with him? Especially after the preseason game when he was late, their minds were made up period. And if you also believe the multiple reports we tried trading Glenn this also validates this theory that money/contract matters especially since we no Glenn was a model player in terms of no documented lockeroom and off the field antics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: Totally agree. Unfortunately, the Bills served as "the lesson" for both players. And I guess I should clarify, I think McBeane did the ABSOLUTE CORRECT thing given the situation. Both players were unfortunately too far gone and were more trouble in a very sensitive locker room than they were worth. McD couldnt risk trying to invest years into getting them back on track when they didnt want to get back on track, and would have just sandbagged his attempt at a culture change. I think the bolded is absolutely correct. I was sick to my stomach when I saw Sammy got traded. I think he would have been better here than he was in LA but that is a product of being the only talented guy on the team. Different sport but Chris Bosh on the Raptors comes to mind. Good player that looked better than he was when he was the lead dog. When he went to the heat we saw where he stacked up. Still good but not the superstar we thought. However reading about his behavior and attitude and it wasn't surprising that they traded him. Marcel pulled a stunt during preseason and it looked like he was testing the water to see how the "new" Bills would respond. When I coached I preferred players that might have been less talented but hustled non stop vs guys that were talented and decided when they would try. I'm interested to see how this goes as I like the approach they are taking. It is kind of the Marv looking for "good guy" but they appear to actually have an eye for talented "good guys" Lot of draft capital and cap space to reshape this team in their mold going forward. Hope it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, SaviorPeterman said: Back when this trade happened, I said if St. Doug and Tom Coughlin couldn't get Dareus career back on track nobody could. Also it's very troubling the Beane and McD were focused soley on Dareus contract and not trying to support him and harness such a talent. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000904990/article/marcell-dareus-jaguars-organization-changed-my-life?campaign=Twitter_atn http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/10/marcell-dareus-going-to-jaguars-changed-my-life/ As I recall there was a whole lot of trying referenced in early season coach press conferences- Something that frankly shouldn’t be necessary with that magnitudes of contract. At some point, a reboot, one that helps with the books too, was in everyone’s best interest. While I deplore how dysfunctional the run defense looked, coincidentally or not, after his departure, I’m not sure the end result of the season would have been all that different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 In the end, no matter how you feel about Dareus there is no disputing that McD/Beane made the wrong short term move. And all the metrics validate that this defense fell off a cliff after we traded Dareus, both in terms of QB pressure and especially rushing defense. I wish Dareus well with St. Doug but the pressure is on this regime to replace Dareus and fix the entire front seven (among all the other offensive issues) and not sure one offseason will get that done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, SaviorPeterman said: In the end, no matter how you feel about Dareus there is no disputing that McD/Beane made the wrong short term move. You say this after it's been completely and properly disputed. You're too much. Happy Trolling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 My 16 year old is more professional and responsible than Dareus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Peter said: We could have traded, cut, or re-negotiated his contract at the end of 2018. Players re-negotiate if the team wants to extend them. Evidently, he did not fit the Bills plans for 2018, so the end of 2018 is not relevent, but I'll play. What would have been the cap hit in 2019 if we traded or cut him in 2018? Do you know? Because if you don't, you're not addressing my points at all, you're just reiterating your own fixed view without considering relevant information that has been raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: You say this after it's been completely and properly disputed. You're too much. Happy Trolling! The advanced metrics don't lie, this defense was hideous and worse than Rex Ryan's most of the year. Which should be a major concern to all Bills fans since McD is supposed to be another self proclaimed defensive genius, he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said: In the end, no matter how you feel about Dareus there is no disputing that McD/Beane made the wrong short term move. And all the metrics validate that this defense fell off a cliff after we traded Dareus, both in terms of QB pressure and especially rushing defense. I wish Dareus well with St. Doug but the pressure is on this regime to replace Dareus and fix the entire front seven (among all the other offensive issues) and not sure one offseason will get that done. the moves were about making the team better in the long term. i think most of us realized that from the get go. they made moves that will help in the long term, and still made the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, teef said: the moves were about making the team better in the long term. i think most of us realized that from the get go. they made moves that will help in the long term, and still made the playoffs. What's done is done Teef. I just hope MD don't tear it up with St. Doug and the Jags, but ook for him to have a huge game this week against the Steelers. I remember a preseason game a few years ago when Dareus destroyed David DeCastro (now one of the best guards in the NFL) and broke his leg. If Dareus gets back to that type of dominant form obviously this discussion doesn't go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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