49ers could be our trading partner

[MiltonWaddams]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

The picks they traded for in rounds 1-3 will all be very late.  Every single one.

So, based on that info and the overall assumption that the floor has fallen ou on the Bills season, would you say a team picking in the top ten would or  would not accept a top 15 pick and a top 25 pick ( assuming that's KC's final position) for their top 10? 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

At the end of day yes the Bills have many holes to fill,  but you need to first fix the biggest problem we have moving forward and that is QB. The 49ers who traded for Garoppolo should end up with a top 3 pick and could be our trading partner so we can grab one of the top QB'S available.  How many times has this franchise been distracted with filling other holes and have avoided going all in to get a franchise QB.  TT is not the answer and we need to move on,  just look at free agent WR'S who avoided signing here because they know he is useless.  Time to go all in and get the best one available and i am ok with (2) # 1 draft picks and a second plus another second the following year if required,  use other picks and free agency to fill out front seven and other positions and go from there. A franchise QB is the foundation of any winning team and we have not had one in a long time.

 

 

Sounds good to me. If they feel their guy is there they should go for it. 

 

This is also why Peterman should have started, then we could have known if he was the guy or not.

[dave mcbride]

15 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

So, based on that info and the overall assumption that the floor has fallen ou on the Bills season, would you say a team picking in the top ten would or  would not accept a top 15 pick and a top 25 pick ( assuming that's KC's final position) for their top 10? 

Hard to say - so much of it depends on the talent and how other teams regard the qbs. An elite QB is worth everything, and teams at the high end of the draft order generally have bad qbs. Trading the farm for a genuinely elite QB is not a dumb thing to do.

 

The teams to look at are Chicago, SF, Indy, Cincy, and Houston. All have their qbs, and all could be drafting in the top 10. The Browns will take a qb #1 overall (that's not even debatable). Other bad teams who need a qb include the Giants, the Chargers (Rivers is declining), the Ravens, the Jets, and AZ. 

 

Beating SD will hurt the Bills chances, but since they still have a legit shot at getting to 9-7 and making the playoffs, they shouldn't start sucking for a qb yet. Indy, the 2 miami games, and the Chargers games are all winnable, although I'm not confident about Miami on the road. They will get destroyed by the Pats twice and by KC. 

 

The big wild card in all of this is Kirk Cousins. He's a legit franchise QB, and Washington can't franchise him again.

Edited November 13, 2017 by dave mcbride

[FLXbillsmafia]

We act like trying to select a QB is like winning the lottery, but since the horrible 2013 draft, teams picking QBs in the top 10-15 overall have had great success:

 

2017: Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes

2016: Goff, Wentz

2015: Winston, Mariota

2014: Bortles

 

Out of this group, only Bortles is a bust (and even he is much better than EJ or Losman), and there are several legit franchise QBs.

 

However, when you try to pick QBs in the late first/second and beyond like the Browns or Jets, then it is like winning the lottery. Dak and Carr have been a success, but you have MANY busts (Hackenberg, Paxton Lynch, Kessler, Cook, Hundley, Hogan, Petty, Geno, Matt Barkley probably Kizer)

 

[Direhard Fan]

I still think TT is a good choice from what this years crop in college has shown.  The "O" line has not given him many options.  The "D" line doesn't give him a lot of time on the field as of late.

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, FLXbillsmafia said:

We act like trying to select a QB is like winning the lottery, but since the horrible 2013 draft, teams picking QBs in the top 10-15 overall have had great success:

 

2017: Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes

2016: Goff, Wentz

2015: Winston, Mariota

2014: Bortles

 

Out of this group, only Bortles is a bust (and even he is much better than EJ or Losman), and there are several legit franchise QBs.

 

However, when you try to pick QBs in the late first/second and beyond like the Browns or Jets, then it is like winning the lottery. Dak and Carr have been a success, but you have MANY busts (Hackenberg, Paxton Lynch, Kessler, Cook, Hundley, Hogan, Petty, Geno, Matt Barkley probably Kizer)

 

That's why the team should be willing to trade up. Staying put and adding a DT or LB or whatever is not going to change the team's trajectory in the slightest.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

At the end of day yes the Bills have many holes to fill,  but you need to first fix the biggest problem we have moving forward and that is QB. The 49ers who traded for Garoppolo should end up with a top 3 pick and could be our trading partner so we can grab one of the top QB'S available.  How many times has this franchise been distracted with filling other holes and have avoided going all in to get a franchise QB.  TT is not the answer and we need to move on,  just look at free agent WR'S who avoided signing here because they know he is useless.  Time to go all in and get the best one available and i am ok with (2) # 1 draft picks and a second plus another second the following year if required,  use other picks and free agency to fill out front seven and other positions and go from there. A franchise QB is the foundation of any winning team and we have not had one in a long time.

 

 

So what makes you think trading up gives you a franchise QB?  The only thing it gets you is for the next year, you can tell everyone you have your QB until he starts playing alot.  I'm not saying TT is the answer and they should stick with him, but this whole trading up thing is pretty risky as opposed to filling a number of holes with the picks you have.  Are there any guaranteed successes out there?  And I get it, if you don't try you'll never know.  But one thing I'm pretty certain of based on past history, of all the QB's taken next year in the 1st round, within 3 to 4 year close to half will be backups and within 5 years likely at least one if not two will probably be out of football completely.  

 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I'm pretty skeptical of Walter Football, and I can find any number of articles from more reputable sources saying differently: http://www.ocregister.com/2017/08/28/ucla-qb-josh-rosen-is-chosen-for-a-good-reason-5/ .

 

Is he arrogant? Probably. Is that disqualifying? No. Like you, I think he has Rodgers potential. We shall see!

I agree 100% on Rosen.  He is IMO far and away the best qb in the draft.  UCLA sucks and he has to carry them every game.  

 

It it would make this inevitable 7-9 season so much easier to take if we ended up with him. Sadly, he seems like a perfect fit for the NY/ NJ  teams.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Tell that to Philly and LA. 

 

 

how about San Diego and Ryan Leaf, Who drafted Rick Meier #2 was it?  And yes those weren't trades, but my point is trading up gives you as much chance at drafting the next Ryan Leaf as it does Carson Wentz

[Best Player Available]

23 minutes ago, FLXbillsmafia said:

We act like trying to select a QB is like winning the lottery, but since the horrible 2013 draft, teams picking QBs in the top 10-15 overall have had great success:

 

2017: Trubisky, Watson, Mahomes

2016: Goff, Wentz

2015: Winston, Mariota

2014: Bortles

 

Out of this group, only Bortles is a bust (and even he is much better than EJ or Losman), and there are several legit franchise QBs.

 

However, when you try to pick QBs in the late first/second and beyond like the Browns or Jets, then it is like winning the lottery. Dak and Carr have been a success, but you have MANY busts (Hackenberg, Paxton Lynch, Kessler, Cook, Hundley, Hogan, Petty, Geno, Matt Barkley probably Kizer)

 

Mahomes? What has he done besides holding a tablet?  Bortles?????????? Being drafted early means nothing. Ask EJ.

[MiltonWaddams]

8 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

 

how about San Diego and Ryan Leaf, Who drafted Rick Meier #2 was it?  And yes those weren't trades, but my point is trading up gives you as much chance at drafting the next Ryan Leaf as it does Carson Wentz

That was Peyton #1 and Leaf #2. They were the only first round QB's that year actually.

Meier was Seattle 

Edited November 13, 2017 by MiltonWaddams

[sven233]

I've watched virtually every game of the "top 5-6" guys this season in college.  Watched a ton of football specifically looking at the QBs this year.  If there has been 1 surprise to me, it's been Mayfield. 

 

Going into this season, I wasn't overly high on him.  In fact, he was probably the one I was least interested in.  However, through all of the games I have watched this year, he is the one that have grown on me the most.  There is still a lot to be concerned about with his height, size, etc.....all the main concerns people have had about him, but man...there is a lot to like as well.

 

He can make all the throws, ball comes out on time, very accurate for the most part, above average arm, good vision, not afraid of tight window throws, definitely mobile enough, and he's a very competitive guy which I really like.  I see his stock rising quite a bit between now and draft day.  With that said, will it be enough to get him drafted before we pick?  At the beginning of the season i wouldn't have wanted him anywhere near the first round.  To this point in the season, I could argue he has been the best in the country.

 

Ir regards to the other guys, there is a lot to like about most of the so-called top guys.  Sure, nobody is lighting it up this year like people were saying going into the season.  But, there are a lot of reasons for that.  That said, the key to finding the right QB is to sift through all the contributing factors (ie. lack of talent around them, injuries, scheme changes, player changes, etc.) and find the guy that does the most things right even if those things are not reflected on the stat sheets this year. 

 

So yeah, while a lot of the favorites aren't lighting up stat sheets, at the core of what they are, there is still a lot to like about all of the guys that were projected to come out in this class.  Can we get in position to take one of them?  Not sure.  I would have taken Watson last year.  Not because I thought he would be as good as he is now, but because he had most of the tools to work with.  And there just some things you can't teach about the position.  You either have it in you or you don't.  I thought Watson had a chance to be great.  Didn't mean he would have been, but you can say that about every QB.  But you have to take your swing at some point.  I would have done it last year.....hoping the Bills do it this year.

Edited November 13, 2017 by sven233

[thenorthremembers]

24 minutes ago, Direhard Fan said:

I still think TT is a good choice from what this years crop in college has shown.  The "O" line has not given him many options.  The "D" line doesn't give him a lot of time on the field as of late.

 

You get a better quarterback and everyone around him starts to look better.   I have no idea how good the o-line is or isnt because our current quarterback holds the ball for 3 seconds every time he drops back, scrambles, spins runs towards the sideline and dumps it off to a back in the middle of the field.  

 

Everything, o-line, d-line, tackling, and even down to the culture of the team changes when you have a good quarterback because you're winning and nothing else matters.  Make no mistake about it, the problem with the Bills is quarterbacking.

[poblano]

The problem with all or almost all here (as fans) is the state of desperation about the position, is practically impossible to a college QB  succeed as rookie and then create a successful career.  The only viable option is take one QB and try to develop their talents wich again we don't want or can wait.

[Knicks&Bills]

The op makes sense, providing peterman isn’t the answer, which is why he needs to play, so we find out.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

16 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

As long as we trade up into the top 3 it doesn't matter who we take.  He will be awesome.

 

Unless I like him.

[Victory Formation]

It's absolutely worth it. If we can take this year's best QB I think it would be worth a blockbuster deal to get him. We have plenty of cap space to build the OL in free agency.

[4merper4mer]

17 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

You get a better quarterback and everyone around him starts to look better.   I have no idea how good the o-line is or isnt because our current quarterback holds the ball for 3 seconds every time he drops back, scrambles, spins runs towards the sideline and dumps it off to a back in the middle of the field.  

 

Everything, o-line, d-line, tackling, and even down to the culture of the team changes when you have a good quarterback because you're winning and nothing else matters.  Make no mistake about it, the problem with the Bills is quarterbacking.

You are so right.  Magic Flutie never gets the credit he deserves for making our defense so great.

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Unless I like him.

Maybe it is time to test the theory.  Trade up for a top 3 pick then trade  that for Connor Cook.

[GreggTX]

We simply must accept it. Tyrod is not the answer. This last game removed all doubt. It's all in on a new elite QB or a rookie with the potential to become elite. No more excuses!

 

[SoTier]

On 11/13/2017 at 12:30 PM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

So what makes you think trading up gives you a franchise QB?  The only thing it gets you is for the next year, you can tell everyone you have your QB until he starts playing alot.  I'm not saying TT is the answer and they should stick with him, but this whole trading up thing is pretty risky as opposed to filling a number of holes with the picks you have.  Are there any guaranteed successes out there?  And I get it, if you don't try you'll never know.  But one thing I'm pretty certain of based on past history, of all the QB's taken next year in the 1st round, within 3 to 4 year close to half will be backups and within 5 years likely at least one if not two will probably be out of football completely.  

 

 

Oh, don't be such a Debbie Downer and quash all the happy dreams of the fans spinning fantasies of the Phantom Savior QB who's going to take the Bills to the Super Bowl all by himself. 

On 11/14/2017 at 2:47 AM, NewDayBills said:

It's absolutely worth it. If we can take this year's best QB I think it would be worth a blockbuster deal to get him. We have plenty of cap space to build the OL in free agency.

 

Right-o.  Good veteran OLers are always fighting to come play for the Bills with their 2 winning seasons in the last 17 years, especially for the peanuts that OBD deems OLers are worth.  That's why Vlad Ducasse is the Bills starting RG.