Wayne Arnold Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 That is Jerry Hughes game Shaq Lawson is never going to be Jerry...their games are different Right. Which doesn't mean Shaq isn't physically capable of being a quality pass rusher. Which oddly seems to be a popular opinion in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Right. Which doesn't mean Shaq isn't physically capable of being a quality pass rusher. Which oddly seems to be a popular opinion in this thread. He lived in the opposing teams backfield in college....I think he is going to be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 in college Key words there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) All you had to say was "slow first step / poor reflexes." And having the ability to determine that from a player after one NFL game is quite impressive. Hopefully you get paid well for this talent. Having a pleasant or non-combative conversation with you is like pulling teeth. First of all........I detailed my opinion and criticisms of specific areas of Shaq's game early in the thread.........and then you ask "based on what?" and expect what exactly? Based on the video footage and seeing him in person? He's in his SECOND SEASON in the NFL.........watch your facts........NOT HIS FIRST GAME AS A BILL........he's played 11 regular season games and 3 preseason games as a Bill and my criticisms were based on his play at Clemson and he hasn't shown anything more in terms of burst or technique. That quick first step is a big separator for pass rushers............if you don't have it, you make pass-pro much easier for OT's...........and he probably has the WORST first step on the Bills DL........as he did at Clemson.......he's routinely the last guy off the snap.......BY A LOT......at this point it's beyond stubborn to deny it. Additionally.........he doesn't regularly extend his arms to stand up and bull rush OT's backward........his hands are good, but he doesn't use his arms well enough to take advantage of them........which I was willing to excuse initially because of his shoulder injury.........but he still doesn't do it..........and that subsequent tendency to try to LEAN into OT's and block himself was a reason some did not think he could rush the passer at a high level in the NFL. To be fair to Badol - and I disagree with him on Shaq - he has felt this way since before we drafted him based on his college performances. We have an agreed metric of 8 sacks per year as a gauge for whether he was worth the 19th pick or not. Yep......we are in sync on our take with Shaq........I'm never going to say a player can't improve but that first step is disgusting........the fact that he still isn't getting off the ball better indicates he probably CAN'T, unfortunately. And if he turns into a 4-6 sack guy who plays good run defense........that's not what you should be spending first round picks on. That's the kinda' guy a team with a Von Miller on a rookie contract joyfully overpays in free agency..........that's what free agency is FOR........hole patchers..........so you either overpay or lose him........it puts you in a lose/lose situation 4 years in. First round picks are for franchise talents........the guys that cost you TOO MUCH to spend on in free agency. Edited September 14, 2017 by #BADOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) Maybe sit Shaq on obvious passing downs for Eddie Yarbrough, see what he can do. Edited September 14, 2017 by Rico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 You were one of the guys hopeful that after his surgery he would be more of an impact player. He still looks the part of a sluggish, powerful DE who will depend upon the rest of comrades to get the QB. Hughes is good but not good enough to produce with the amount of attention he is getting. If you are playing Shaq at one end you better have Watt or Miller on the other side. He could improve but he won't ever bend around a tackle. 5-6 sacks is about where he should end up. Exactly. You shouldn't use first round picks on defenders with low ceilings in the passing game in a passing league. There's a lot of talk here about "why Shaq was drafted"...........let's be clear.........he was drafted to hopefully, quickly patch up a big hole........same with Reggie Ragnuts. Drafting for need leaves you needy.......and those two just proved to be an extreme example. When the Bills are getting projected to select a pass rushing DE in round 1 in a year or so cue the "but we just used a first round pick on one of those two years ago". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 He led college football in tackles for loss in 2015 and was second in the nation in sacks. Something tells me you were blown away when CJ Spiller's career flamed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Maybe sit Shaq on obvious passing downs for Eddie Yarbrough, see what he can do. They are already substituting for him on third downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 PFF are just a bunch of nerds with calculators!!!! I jest. Never jumped off the Shaq bandwagon, good to see stats to back up an underappreciated impact. yep. Good thread to remind us. Thanks Arnold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 They are already substituting for him on third downs. Really. Thanks, I didn't see that from my seat at the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 They are already substituting for him on third downs. stop it. They are subbing everyone. Should MD be coming off on third downs? Be careful to watch how they sub against Carolina. Shaq will get his. He is Not an Edge rusher. His edge contain is pretty darned good. Recall the wide nine method Jim S used? funnel the play to the middle of the field Shaq might notget sack numbers ( which i care less about than pressures) and turnovers or negative yards, 3rd down stops and such. Team effort and we have damn fine interior Linemen to put the heat on Cam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 He was doing this last year as well. Camp he looked like a man possessed. Hes gonna be a good player I've been back and forth on Shaq... normally I stay pretty true to an opinion on a guys skill set but think they end up over/under achievers from there.... Shaq has been a tough one for me to peg. I think if forced on record 7-8 sacks a year and strong run defense is the expectation though and we will see if he gets there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 He doesn't "burst." He pushes his blocker over backwards and then falls over that blocker into the backfield. I'm not saying it wasn't a great play - it was. But it's not a play that demonstrates any kind of elite passrushing skills. When Mario was an elite pass rusher that is mostly how he got his hurries and sacks. He had elite pass rushing skills. JJ Watt often just bulls his way through OL to the QB. Not saying Shaq is anything like those guys but that can be burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 How anyone could look at him and think he was an OLB I have no clue. Even trimmed down from last year he still looks like a DE. He appeared to be moving better than last year. Agree held the point of attack well. The pass rush from the DL has to get better or they will be exposed. I'm fine with the heavy rotation, but I want to see Marcell and the starting unit on most third downs. PS - I still think Adolphus Washington should be split out to DE and Hughes used as a stand up OLB in a few packages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 When Mario was an elite pass rusher that is mostly how he got his hurries and sacks. He had elite pass rushing skills. JJ Watt often just bulls his way through OL to the QB. Not saying Shaq is anything like those guys but that can be burst. That is true, and Reggie White's bullrush was unprecedented. But all of those guys flew off the ball. With Shaq, I see the power, I just don't see the quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I'm really excited to see what Lawson does this year. As he gets healthier and healthier, I envision him becoming an all-out beast on the end. I wouldn't be shocked to see him post double digit sacks. Sadly, one of the few Whaley picks that may end up panning out... (or was this purely a Rex pick?) Great edge setter. Not sure he'll be a QB terror at this level. He's sort of the opposite strength and weakness profile of Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PABillsfan23 Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 You accurately described who he is as a player. He is not explosive, and never was, even in college. He is a well rounded DE who is adept at playing both the run and putting decent pressure on the qb. He is a solid DE who will never be a great pass rusher. I'll gladly embrace what he is as a player. Welp.. We better trade him then. We need 15 sack a year guys on both sides 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 14, 2017 Author Share Posted September 14, 2017 First of all........I detailed my opinion and criticisms of specific areas of Shaq's game early in the thread.........and then you ask "based on what?" and expect what exactly? Based on the video footage and seeing him in person? He's in his SECOND SEASON in the NFL.........watch your facts........NOT HIS FIRST GAME AS A BILL........he's played 11 regular season games and 3 preseason games as a Bill and my criticisms were based on his play at Clemson and he hasn't shown anything more in terms of burst or technique. That quick first step is a big separator for pass rushers............if you don't have it, you make pass-pro much easier for OT's...........and he probably has the WORST first step on the Bills DL........as he did at Clemson.......he's routinely the last guy off the snap.......BY A LOT......at this point it's beyond stubborn to deny it. Additionally.........he doesn't regularly extend his arms to stand up and bull rush OT's backward........his hands are good, but he doesn't use his arms well enough to take advantage of them........which I was willing to excuse initially because of his shoulder injury.........but he still doesn't do it..........and that subsequent tendency to try to LEAN into OT's and block himself was a reason some did not think he could rush the passer at a high level in the NFL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUV0XcxVls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUV0XcxVls Take a couple plays off big fella. It's not your day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 14, 2017 Author Share Posted September 14, 2017 Take a couple plays off big fella. It's not your day. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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