Gilmore!!!

[MAJBobby]

Patriots do have some issues. Clearly no as dominant as the experts claimed.

 

No passrush

LBer depth issues

 

Gronk looks slow like the INJ have caught up to him.

 

And if the 40 year Old Brady (maybe has hit that wall) cant bail them out like he has for years they could be in Trouble.

 

Add that the the Chiefs are actually really good.

 

 

Last thing on This. Obviously an Out and up will freeze a CB sitting in a cover 2 Zone

[Magox]

Hmmm

 

The big plays were the other concern, and there was nothing more eye-raising than Tyreek Hill’s 75-yard touchdown catch against Gilmore, who inexplicably passed off Hill to a zone that wasn’t covered. Defensive backs are taught to never pass off a player to another zone if that zone isn’t covered, so that part is on Gilmore. And with a speedster like Hill running a fly route and no one underneath, it made even less sense for Gilmore to stop running with him, especially as he could see Devin McCourty already committed to the seam.

 

 

Interesting

 

Hill was matched up with the Pats’ $65 million, shutdown corner, Stephon Gilmore, who promptly let the fastest man on the field go free about halfway down field, apparently thinking safety Devin McCourty was only kidding when he ran in the opposite direction toward the center of the field. He was not, which left Hill sprinting alone the final 30 yards on his way to a 75-yard touchdown and a 21-17 lead midway through the third quarter.

 

 

I also seem to remember some posters putting a lot of stock into McCourty taking ownership of the broken up play and using that as proof that it was all on him.

 

Gilmore was in coverage on what appeared to be a broken play that yielded the Chiefs’ their first lead at 21-14. He let Hill run right by him for a wide-open reception and run into the end zone. Whether wrong or right, he seemed to think Devin McCourty was going to be there in coverage.

“I just got to watch the film, and correct it and see what we should have done better on that one,” Gilmore said.

 

 

 

Watch the video

 

Even Collinsworth completely blames Gilmore for this play. But let's put his criticism aside, watch the very end. Gilmore is able to clearly see that McCourty is running the opposite direction at near full speed, you can see it at the 31-32 second mark and at the 41-42 second mark you can see Gilmore looking at his Safety running the opposite direction and he's still essentially letting his man go.

 

And there is plenty of more commentary out there that supports this train of thought. The point people is that there are reasonable positions on both sides of the argument for this particular play. I mentioned early on that this appears to be a play where Devin should have been there and that it wasn't Gilmore's initial responsibility. But as you can clearly see in the video and that has been mentioned by other outside observers that Gilmore was able to see that McCourty was totally out of the play.

 

The argument you guys are making is:

 

Well, this is Gilmore's zone and he is not supposed to go out of it no matter what. Even if he sees that McCourty is out of position, he simply is not allowed to go out of his zone because, well......It's not his "responsibility". Sorry. I do not accept that answer. It is possible for the fault to be mainly on McCourty for not being in position but also blame on the DB for letting his man go even though he sees that his backside help is running the opposite direction.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Magox

[HappyDays]

Hmmm

 

 

Interesting

 

I also seem to remember some posters putting a lot of stock into McCourty taking ownership of the broken up play and using that as proof that it was all on him.

 

 

 

 

Even Collinsworth completely blames Gilmore for this play. But let's put his criticism aside, watch the very end. Gilmore is able to clearly see that McCourty is running the opposite direction at near full speed, you can see it at the 31-32 second mark and at the 41-42 second mark you can see Gilmore looking at his Safety running the opposite direction and he's still essentially letting his man go.

 

And there is plenty of more commentary out there that supports this train of thought. The point people is that there are reasonable positions on both sides of the argument for this particular play. I mentioned early on that this appears to be a play where Devin should have been there and that it wasn't Gilmore's initial responsibility. But as you can clearly see in the video and that has been mentioned by other outside observers that Gilmore was able to see that McCourty was totally out of the play.

 

The argument you guys are making is:

 

Well, this is Gilmore's zone and he is not supposed to go out of it no matter what. Even if he sees that McCourty is out of position, he simply is not allowed to go out of his zone because, well......It's not his "responsibility". Sorry. I do not accept that answer. It is possible for the fault to be mainly on McCourty for not being in position but also blame on the DB for letting his man go even though he sees that his backside help is running the opposite direction.

Great post. I don't know how anyone can be so sure about what Gilmore's responsibilities were on that play. CBs change their responsibilities based on what the offense does and it didn't look to me like Gilmore made the right choice.

 

But whatever your thoughts are on the Hill TD we can all agree this play:

 

https://twitter.com/dnick55/status/906008078931320836/video/1

 

is peak Gilmore.

[BringBackOrton]

Great post. I don't know how anyone can be so sure about what Gilmore's responsibilities were on that play. CBs change their responsibilities based on what the offense does and it didn't look to me like Gilmore made the right choice.

 

But whatever your thoughts are on the Hill TD we can all agree this play:

 

https://twitter.com/dnick55/status/906008078931320836/video/1

 

is peak Gilmore.

Yes, happens much more than Sherman, Peterson, Peters, Norman etc!

 

/s.

[dave mcbride]

Hmmm

 

 

 

Interesting

 

 

I also seem to remember some posters putting a lot of stock into McCourty taking ownership of the broken up play and using that as proof that it was all on him.

 

 

 

 

 

Even Collinsworth completely blames Gilmore for this play. But let's put his criticism aside, watch the very end. Gilmore is able to clearly see that McCourty is running the opposite direction at near full speed, you can see it at the 31-32 second mark and at the 41-42 second mark you can see Gilmore looking at his Safety running the opposite direction and he's still essentially letting his man go.

 

And there is plenty of more commentary out there that supports this train of thought. The point people is that there are reasonable positions on both sides of the argument for this particular play. I mentioned early on that this appears to be a play where Devin should have been there and that it wasn't Gilmore's initial responsibility. But as you can clearly see in the video and that has been mentioned by other outside observers that Gilmore was able to see that McCourty was totally out of the play.

 

The argument you guys are making is:

 

Well, this is Gilmore's zone and he is not supposed to go out of it no matter what. Even if he sees that McCourty is out of position, he simply is not allowed to go out of his zone because, well......It's not his "responsibility". Sorry. I do not accept that answer. It is possible for the fault to be mainly on McCourty for not being in position but also blame on the DB for letting his man go even though he sees that his backside help is running the opposite direction.

 

Fair points, but what I think everyone is forgetting is that because Smith throws it deep so rarely, both players were cheating a little to take away the shorter pass possibilities. It was a great play call.

[HappyDays]

Yes, happens much more than Sherman, Peterson, Peters, Norman etc!

 

/s.

Uh yeah, I'll go out on a limb and say Gilmore misses more tackles than the top CBs in the league.

[GoBills808]

Hmmm

 

 

Interesting

 

I also seem to remember some posters putting a lot of stock into McCourty taking ownership of the broken up play and using that as proof that it was all on him.

 

 

 

Watch the video

 

Even Collinsworth completely blames Gilmore for this play. But let's put his criticism aside, watch the very end. Gilmore is able to clearly see that McCourty is running the opposite direction at near full speed, you can see it at the 31-32 second mark and at the 41-42 second mark you can see Gilmore looking at his Safety running the opposite direction and he's still essentially letting his man go.

 

And there is plenty of more commentary out there that supports this train of thought. The point people is that there are reasonable positions on both sides of the argument for this particular play. I mentioned early on that this appears to be a play where Devin should have been there and that it wasn't Gilmore's initial responsibility. But as you can clearly see in the video and that has been mentioned by other outside observers that Gilmore was able to see that McCourty was totally out of the play.

 

The argument you guys are making is:

 

Well, this is Gilmore's zone and he is not supposed to go out of it no matter what. Even if he sees that McCourty is out of position, he simply is not allowed to go out of his zone because, well......It's not his "responsibility". Sorry. I do not accept that answer. It is possible for the fault to be mainly on McCourty for not being in position but also blame on the DB for letting his man go even though he sees that his backside help is running the opposite direction.

So it appears Boston sportswriters don't understand basic defensive concepts. Not surprised.

 

In that playcall you live with your LB covering Kelce deep middle while the safeties take away deep outside routes. Watch Butler on the other side, he plays his man EXACTLY the same way as Gilmore does except he runs even less downfield after him and goes to cover flat, actually stops at the 45 yard line.

[Marty McFly]

Patriots do have some issues. Clearly no as dominant as the experts claimed.

No passrush

LBer depth issues

Gronk looks slow like the INJ have caught up to him.

And if the 40 year Old Brady (maybe has hit that wall) cant bail them out like he has for years they could be in Trouble.

Add that the the Chiefs are actually really good.

Last thing on This. Obviously an Out and up will freeze a CB sitting in a cover 2 Zone

You walled up in FL bro? Theyre unleashing Tyrod tomorrow! Idk if ur gonna have power but i imagine you will if on base, be safe. Im replacing John from hemet in the shoutbox on the qb debates, he tripped on an RLBallstein post and ruptured his spleen. Dont die, at least until the game is over :lol:

Uh yeah, I'll go out on a limb and say Gilmore misses more tackles than the top CBs in the league.

Last time i checked Gilmore dont tackle. Not even when his family watches him on TV

Great post. I don't know how anyone can be so sure about what Gilmore's responsibilities were on that play. CBs change their responsibilities based on what the offense does and it didn't look to me like Gilmore made the right choice.

But whatever your thoughts are on the Hill TD we can all agree this play:https://twitter.com/dnick55/status/906008078931320836/video/1

is peak Gilmore.

Lmao someone should post that on his twitter

To Gilmore,

 

Sincerely,

Buffalo

 

Ps. We saw you get burnt on tv bro!!

[Magox]

So it appears Boston sportswriters don't understand basic defensive concepts. Not surprised.

 

In that playcall you live with your LB covering Kelce deep middle while the safeties take away deep outside routes. Watch Butler on the other side, he plays his man EXACTLY the same way as Gilmore does except he runs even less downfield after him and goes to cover flat, actually stops at the 45 yard line.

 

Oh, so Boston sportswriters who disagree with you don't understand basic defensive concepts? Hmmm. Sounds reasonable.

 

And to your second point, I'm very glad that you brought that up.

 

I would recommend for everyone to take a look at the video again.

 

GoBills808 makes the point that since Butler played it the same way which was letting his man go down the field that it was OK that Gilmore did as well.

 

Here's the difference. I want people to freeze frame it at the 30 second point. What direction is McCourty looking and running towards? Is McCourty playing the seam or backside help for Gilmore? And where is the other safety looking that has Butler's backside help?

 

The answer is that McCourty is running full speed towards the seam with no intention of providing support to Gilmore AND Gilmore sees this. Whereas the safety on Butler's side is in position to provide cover to Butler's man. Now look at the 41 and 42 second mark, you can see that Gilmore is looking towards the safety and then immediately at the 43 second mark he looks back at the QB.

 

And it's at that 43 second mark Gilmore begins to slow down. He just got done looking at the Safety at the 41 and 42 second mark, there is no way that he could have concluded that he had backside safety help from McCourty.

 

So the difference between Butler's situation and Gilmore's is a night and day difference.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Magox

[Marty McFly]

Hmmm

 

 

 

Interesting

 

 

I also seem to remember some posters putting a lot of stock into McCourty taking ownership of the broken up play and using that as proof that it was all on him.

 

They were running cover 2 so technically it wasnt Gilmores fault but lets keep blaming him for being a doosh jn a pats jersey.

[Magox]

They were running cover 2 so technically it wasnt Gilmores fault but lets keep blaming him for being a doosh jn a pats jersey.

 

Technically speaking you very well may be right.

[GoBills808]

 

Oh, so Boston sportswriters who disagree with you don't understand basic defensive concepts? Hmmm. Sounds reasonable.

 

And to your second point, I'm very glad that you brought that up.

 

I would recommend for everyone to take a look at the video again.

 

GoBills808 makes the point that since Butler played it the same way which was letting his man go down the field that it was OK that Gilmore did as well.

 

Here's the difference. I want people to freeze frame it at the 30 second point. What direction is McCourty looking and running towards? Is McCourty playing the seam or backside help for Gilmore? And where is the other safety looking that has Butler's backside help?

 

The answer is that McCourty is running full speed towards the seam with no intention of providing support to Gilmore AND Gilmore sees this. Whereas the safety on Butler's side is in position to provide cover to Butler's man. Now look at the 41 and 42 second mark, you can see that Gilmore is looking towards the safety and then immediately at the 43 second mark he looks back at the QB.

 

And it's at that 43 second mark Gilmore begins to slow down. He just got done looking at the Safety at the 41 and 42 second mark, there is no way that he could have concluded that he had backside safety help from McCourty.

 

So the difference between Butler's situation and Gilmore's is a night and day difference.

Yes, Chung (I think) played it correctly and McCourty did not. Both Butler and Gilmore have pretty well-defined responsibilities in a cover 2.

[JerseyBills]

40M guaranteed for a player who may be average can bring down a whole franchise.

Bingo. Just look at how terrible that front 7 looks. Nickovich retired, couldn't afford to keep Long and Sheard , if Hightower is injured for a substantial amount of time, they're going to get dominated week by week on D..

Big reason is because of paying Gimore, a move I promise you Belicheck is regretting.

[papazoid]

“I just got to watch the film,......” Gilmore said.

 

 

translation: I was too far away from the play to get a good look

[K-9]

I repeat, the TD to Hill was far more about Reid's play design than it was about Gilmore's responsibility. Yes, he was slow in recognition but his first read is his zone responsibility and that included making sure the shallower crossing route was covered. While he slowed up for his zone responsibility, Reid was sending a receiver on a long flag route that was wide open in the deep middle and McCourty bit hard on that. The play was an adjustment by Reid after seeing how NE*** defended certain looks in their cover-2 previously. Just a great call by Reid and great execution by the Chiefs.

 

The Gilmore bashing is pathetic. Some fans should be embarrassed.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Would it be fair to say that Gilmore is good in man to man but has more trouble with zone coverage schemes?

Boom /thread

[Kirby Jackson]

Yes, Chung (I think) played it correctly and McCourty did not. Both Butler and Gilmore have pretty well-defined responsibilities in a cover 2.

Exactly, people are treating it like an option route for a WR. That's not the way the cover 2 works.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Gilmore is on the Pats. Shouldn't every Bills fan want him to give up touchdown passes? Shouldn't we as Bills fans want touch down passes to occur while Golmore is one the field or off the field? Move on people.

[K-9]

Exactly, people are treating it like an option route for a WR. That's not the way the cover 2 works.

While I certainly agree with your larger point throughout the thread, there can be a myriad of coverage responsibilities in a cover-2 by those in charge of the underneath stuff. So in that sense a cover-2 may work in many different ways within the scope of a particular scheme. The only constant is the defined responsibility of the deep safeties for their respective deep halves which, as you are fully aware, is what defines a cover-2.

Edited September 9, 2017 by K-9

[Boatdrinks]

Gilmore is on the Pats. Shouldn't every Bills fan want him to give up touchdown passes? Shouldn't we as Bills fans want touch down passes to occur while Golmore is one the field or off the field? Move on people.

Yes. The Pats are the enemy, the dark lord of football. If Gilmore went to say, the 49ers then whatever. Unless SF was playing the Bills, of course.