Jauronimo Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 I know some will miss the point here but here it goes: "I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion." Deep, deep, stuff. Cute analogies are good for about, give or take, zero wins per year in the NFL. Perhaps McDermott will consume our opponents with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse but I'm not holding my breath. The cap situation (due to garbage contracts like Dareus received, for example) prevented this team from giving Sammy the whopping contract extension that he would have demanded after this season. Therefore, 2017 was undoubtedly going to be his last season in Buffalo. What would be the point of turning down a 2nd round pick to keep him on the team solely for this season? Was this team in position to win the Super Bowl even if Sammy was 100% healthy the entire season (which has never happened in his career, btw)? As for the popular notion "the season is over now that Sammy is gone" - what was Buffalo's record in 2016 with Sammy vs. without him? Well that's just categorically wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Fans and the media are confused, because they believe in only two philosophies: The team is either "built to win now" or they are "tanking for the future." Signing/extending veterans fits the first mold. Trading older players for draft picks fits the latter. Trading young talent fits neither. I think Brandon Beane/Sean McDermott are simply overhauling the team (whether young or old) into something that fits into their vision. This isn't just about stockpiling draft picks. This isn't about competing for the Number #1 pick. They are trying to win in 2017, but they also aren't afraid to trade away players that don't fit into the roster they are building. Sammy Watkins was traded because of salary. I am 90% convinced of this. They knew that either Watkins has another disappointing season and they let him walk, or he has a fantastic season and wants more money than they were willing to pay. When they first declined his 5th Year Option, I thought the front office was making Sammy prove himself for the money. But now I believe the front office had already decided he had no future in Buffalo. Ronald Darby is undersized and better in man coverage. He didn't fit the defense. Reggie Ragland is a 3-4 middle linebacker with limited skills. He didn't fit the defense. Jonathan Williams didn't help on special teams like they want from backups. It's that simple. And only time will tell if Beane/McDermott actually know what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGun12TD Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 You are by posting this garbage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 There is actually no better time to tank, than in a rookie HC and rookie GM's first season. Talk about a Mulligan. They're gonna try to win games. They're just not good enough to win very many. So no worries about the culture. I can't believe this is so hard for so many to grasp. Yeah, right. The coach is immediately on the 'hot seat' and has a stain on him for as long as he lasts in the job. Well that's just categorically wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Will dennison design a system that helps tyrod be more successful? To lead the league in rushing again? If yes the offense will be very good. If no the offense will look terrible and it's very possible he is scapegoated because the owners may not want to trust the new rookie qb with a guy who can't design a system around a qbs strengths. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) Lorenzo is 34 Incognito is 34 Williams is 34 Wood is 31 Tolbert is 31 McCoy is 29 DiMarco is 28 How does keeping these guys help rebuild the team when you are going to replace all of them in the next couple of years? Opie and the Beane have devastated the young talent on this team. I don't care how many draft choices they have next season. They are about to dump alot of young guys next year on the roster. You need to have guys to help out the young guys. Have a culture that easily assimilates the younger player. Buffalo really hasnt had alot of accountability on the feild since maybe gailey. Marrone and Rex wanted all the credit and some of the blame. Edited September 6, 2017 by Mat68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcoam Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 I agree 100% with MJT and others who do not see a tank, what I see instead is an overhaul of a roster and a major player transition, but it's not geared to lose and get a high first round draft pick, instead its geared to giving up a little short term talent for more potential long term talent by stockpiling 2018 draft picks Really no different than the 2017 draft trade with KC, we gave up on potential better CB for the long term, in return for still a potential great CB and a first round future draft pick, its a great m,one, sure I could say I think we should have got even more, but the idea works, as does any trade where you accomplish the same objectives And I think its overall a marvellous plan, sure I personally don't like losing Darby, this whole story that he was not a fit with the new scheme is a bit overstated, but I understand why they did what they did I just think they want to win by hand picking their own players (nothing new there), and creating a new culture (nothing new here either) and with players that have a certain disposition to both a hard work ethic and their way of thinking (that might be unique) Sure, I'm not yet convinced their plan works, call me a skeptic, and its been applied inconsistently, I mean why lose too easy comp picks if that's the plan, by signing marginal talent, and I'm not a big fan of whom they signed this off season and the money involved, and our secondary looks badl on paper, however I will be the first person to admit my criticism was incorrect if this team wins more than games than I think it will and or the secondary plays better than last years unit But I sure do like the plan, if they can execute it, its miles ahead philosophically speaking than any other HC or GM the Bills have had in a long time, a and if it works, fans are in for a nice run here, and boy we deserve it.... jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 It's a tear down and rebuild job while trying to snow us (and the vets on the team) into believing that they're trying to win now during the rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Production over potential it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 http://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2017-edition/ I mean, I'm sure you averaged all the ages for the Bills then did the other 31 teams for comparison...but this is where I believe that "fact" comes from... Yeah I get that they averaged the ages. But by breaking it down the way I did you can see that half of the team is young. 43 under 30. If they cut half of the old guys (next season) Where would that avg be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Caught in the middle of 'attempting to win' vs 'rebuilding'. Also, obligatory side note: I still hate Rodak. http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/28929/if-the-bills-are-not-tanking-what-exactly-are-they-doing What is so freaking hard to understand? They are rebuilding but still trying to win with what they have. 1) You put your team together. 2) You tell them to play to win. 3) You end up where you end up. Not quantum physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 What is so freaking hard to understand? They are rebuilding but still trying to win with what they have. 1) You put your team together. 2) You tell them to play to win. 3) You end up where you end up. Not quantum physics. Seems they can't please all the people at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 What is so freaking hard to understand? They are rebuilding but still trying to win with what they have. 1) You put your team together. 2) You tell them to play to win. 3) You end up where you end up. Not quantum physics. yes indeed. they are in now mode now. prep mode is over for 2017. go play the games. roster is pretty much set now. tanking/dumping talent in the strict sense is not a workable thing in the NFL. only so many moves you can make given cap/dead$$/need-to-put-a-team-on-the-field implications. NHL rosters you can quickly tank given farm team support/smaller, simpler to manage $$ implications, NFL rosters not so much Sammy was a calculated risk cap move -- smart. Darby and others were scheme/mentality non-fit moves -- expected after regime change -- smart. They weren't tank moves. They've added talent as well, scheme/mentality fits -- players they know and like -- smart. I am a believer is bringing in people who are known quantities when you can. They are doing just that. And they are moving as fast as the rosters/teams/league will support. Rodak is just reflecting what the average fan is saying to get readers, which tells you something about the average fan........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonbus23 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 What young talent was devastated? Watkins for Gaines? They are the same age Plus we got a 2nd rounder Darby for Matthews? Same age Plus we got a 3rd rounder Seymour for Klay? Same age, Seymour was a JAG and we traded him for another JAG Jwill?? If you want to call him a talent, fine. But he wasn't considered to be much of a talent from both the Bills perspective and virtually every other team in the NFL. Ragland for a 4th rounder? Ragland may or may not end up being a good player but he certainly wasn't as good of a fit for 4-3 than a 3-4 and he is coming off of major knee surgery which you would think makes him an even worse fit for a 4-3 LB. He was traded to KC and now been taken off the active roster so clearly he isn't viewed as ready at this point. So what is this talent that has been "devastated" that you speak of? Because the facts say that the moves that have been made, will bring in more young people than what was already here. I think they focus more on the talent part, not just the the age. While I think the talent they gave was less than they got, they have draft picks. So, they can potentially get more talent, also young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Getting rid of Watkins was really the gut punch. He is young, extremely talented and a perfect west coast wide receiver. There had to be some serious injury or personality concerns with him otherwise that move was terrible TBH. These other trades are mostly window dressing. In any event, we'll find out over the next few weeks if this purported plan to "win now and win later" works out or if it's really a tank in disguise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 It kind of reminds me of the first year Pete Carrol got to Seattle. They made like 80 transactions in that first year and just were trying to get their own guys in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Getting rid of Watkins was really the gut punch. He is young, extremely talented and a perfect west coast wide receiver. There had to be some serious injury or personality concerns with him otherwise that move was terrible TBH. These other trades are mostly window dressing. In any event, we'll find out over the next few weeks if this purported plan to "win now and win later" works out or if it's really a tank in disguise. Well, one of our insiders on this message board constantly referred to Watkins as 'Samantha' fwiw. That combined with his injury history and the tendency of the current front office / coaching staff to not dedicate a large portion of the salary cap to one wide receiver and it's obvious that they wanted to get something for him before his career in Buffalo had ended. It kind of reminds me of the first year Pete Carrol got to Seattle. They made like 80 transactions in that first year and just were trying to get their own guys in there. Bill Belichick's first two seasons in New England (2000, 2001) as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re enlightener Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 People continue to overrate draft position with regard to landing a franchise quarterback. If we've learned anything over the decades, it's that no one can predict how a quarterback performs in the NFL. It's a complete and utter crap shoot. i disagree sincerely, eli and philip Fans and the media are confused, because they believe in only two philosophies: The team is either "built to win now" or they are "tanking for the future." Signing/extending veterans fits the first mold. Trading older players for draft picks fits the latter. Trading young talent fits neither. I think Brandon Beane/Sean McDermott are simply overhauling the team (whether young or old) into something that fits into their vision. This isn't just about stockpiling draft picks. This isn't about competing for the Number #1 pick. They are trying to win in 2017, but they also aren't afraid to trade away players that don't fit into the roster they are building. Sammy Watkins was traded because of salary. I am 90% convinced of this. They knew that either Watkins has another disappointing season and they let him walk, or he has a fantastic season and wants more money than they were willing to pay. When they first declined his 5th Year Option, I thought the front office was making Sammy prove himself for the money. But now I believe the front office had already decided he had no future in Buffalo. Ronald Darby is undersized and better in man coverage. He didn't fit the defense. Reggie Ragland is a 3-4 middle linebacker with limited skills. He didn't fit the defense. Jonathan Williams didn't help on special teams like they want from backups. It's that simple. And only time will tell if Beane/McDermott actually know what they are doing. who are you and why do you make sense? have i enlightened you already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 People continue to overrate draft position with regard to landing a franchise quarterback. If we've learned anything over the decades, it's that no one can predict how a quarterback performs in the NFL. It's a complete and utter crap shoot. So be as good as you can be this season and use both first-round picks on quarterbacks even if they're only the third and fourth best in the class. Because no one really knows. Then let those two and Peterman battle it out throughout the entire 2018 offseason and preseason and pick one. If he's successful, trade the other one. Sometimes. Sometimes it's not, like when Troy Aikman was picked Round 1, pick 1...and went on to be one hell of a good NFL QB with 3 Superbowl wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 i disagree sincerely, eli and philip who are you and why do you make sense? have i enlightened you already? Eli and Phillip may not be right. Sincerely, Mssrs. Couch, Russell, Smith , and others. Ultimately you study college QBs as much as possible, then hope you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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