HT02 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 What mess did Whaley leave? I could've sworn it was Rex who took a top 5 defense and made it an absolute cluster !@#$. Whaleys issue was being QB ignorant. The team wasn't lacking talent. Dareus, Kouandjio, EJ, John Miller, Glenn (huge contract), overpaying for Watkins.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Schick Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Hello! @IanKenyonNFL What the bills are doing would make a lot more sense if they were trading aging vets instead of good 22-23 year old players Yes, because if we know anything, it's that aging vets with big contracts have TONS of trade value in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Stop with the 17 years crap. It's a feeble argument. Rise above that weakness. Start when the Pegulas took over if you wish. Rex was a blunder, and they acted quickly to correct that. Now...rant away with sense. You can start your counting of the playoff-less seasons with the Pegulas if you wish, but don't try to tell me where I should start my count! My guess is that there's not much difference between Wilson's ownership and the Pegulas' because Russ Brandon is still running the show, which he has done since at least 2006. McDermott is the same kind of modestly credentialed HC that Jauron, Gailey, and Marrone were. Beane's resume is simiilarly limited, and my guess is that he's little more than a figurehead ... since the Bills hired McDermott before they bothered to hire him. The wholesale departure of talent this off-season, beginning with Gilmore, as well as the trades with KC and LA, suggests the same kind of scheme to minimize personnel costs while selling the fans crap disguised as hope that was the hallmark of the Bills from 2006 through 2014. The team that the Bills have fielded in preseason is eerily reminiscent of the crappy, penalty-laden teams the Bills fielded under Jauron. Even in the third preseason game, the offense can't get out of its own way. Maybe you haven't bothered to watch other teams in their third games but I have. The 2017 Bills look like a sandlot team compared to even the San Francisco 49ers. That's how bad they are. Of course, the Bills have looked that bad before, but they've still managed to win 5 or 6 or 7 games. My guess is that they'll win 4 or 5 games because the defense is decent, but even if they win 7 by some miracle, they'll still take a QB in the first round so that they'll have some more hope to sell to fans. You can believe the Bills FO has changed, but I'll believe it only when I see it, and from where I sit, it looks like the playoff drought will continue indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I would agree with this. Wouldn't it be easier to keep those players and figure out what to do with one guy( Dareus) in a year or so? I mean,MD is the reason why they are running a 4-3. Not an aging KW, not JH , heck not even SL. Essentially they are purging talent to keep Dareus as a 4-3 DT. I don't agree with this at all. They are switching to 4-3 because that's what McD and Frazier do. All the talk of fitting the system to our players is obviously not the case, if you are a square peg they will ship you to a team with square holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 You can start your counting of the playoff-less seasons with the Pegulas if you wish, but don't try to tell me where I should start my count! My guess is that there's not much difference between Wilson's ownership and the Pegulas' because Russ Brandon is still running the show, which he has done since at least 2006. McDermott is the same kind of modestly credentialed HC that Jauron, Gailey, and Marrone were. Beane's resume is simiilarly limited, and my guess is that he's little more than a figurehead ... since the Bills hired McDermott before they bothered to hire him. The wholesale departure of talent this off-season, beginning with Gilmore, as well as the trades with KC and LA, suggests the same kind of scheme to minimize personnel costs while selling the fans crap disguised as hope that was the hallmark of the Bills from 2006 through 2014. The team that the Bills have fielded in preseason is eerily reminiscent of the crappy, penalty-laden teams the Bills fielded under Jauron. Even in the third preseason game, the offense can't get out of its own way. Maybe you haven't bothered to watch other teams in their third games but I have. The 2017 Bills look like a sandlot team compared to even the San Francisco 49ers. That's how bad they are. Of course, the Bills have looked that bad before, but they've still managed to win 5 or 6 or 7 games. My guess is that they'll win 4 or 5 games because the defense is decent, but even if they win 7 by some miracle, they'll still take a QB in the first round so that they'll have some more hope to sell to fans. You can believe the Bills FO has changed, but I'll believe it only when I see it, and from where I sit, it looks like the playoff drought will continue indefinitely. If you truly believe Brandon is telling Beane and McDermott what to do with the team, despite everything to the contrary, there is nothing that can really be said. Enjoy your fantasy world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) All I know is that they better hit on their draft picks, and hope that Watkins, Darby, and Ragland do not realize the potential they were drafted on. This regime has gone out on quite the limb to start off their tenure. I'm very skeptical, but will try and keep an open mind until I see how things play out over the next draft and 2018 season. This season was always a throw away to me once they changed the coaches and GM. Edited August 29, 2017 by Crusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Here is a list of some of the players that Whaley acquired through the draft, trade, or free agency that the Bills have gotten rid of that all you McBeane lovers seem to think are worthless. Most of them will be starting for other teams: Sammy Watkins Mike Gillislee Ron Darby Robert Woods Cyrus Koundjio Stephon Gilmore Chris Hogan Kiko Alonzo Among other players Whaley acquired who are still on the team: Preston Brown Jerry Hughes LeSean McCoy Charles Clay Richie Incognito Tyrod Taylor Yes, Whaley whiffed on his attempt of drafting a QB with EJ Manuel. Yes, some of his other draft picks did not pan out. But the failures of the last two years are much more the responsibility of Rex Ryan, and the Pegulas who hired him and gave him as much if not more power than Whaley, though Whaley is also responsible. I thought hiring Rex was a bad idea at the time and said so back then: it meant that Schwartz would be forced out; I would rather have seen them keep Schwartz and hire an offense-minded HC, as Whaley apparently was inclined to do before the Pegulas met Rex and his bottle of red wine. And Whaley is not being given credit for his being able to spot talented street free agents like Gillislee and under-the-radar players like Hogan. The housecleaning that Freebie and the Beane are orchestrating--not of aging veterans but of good young players--does not inspire any confidence in me that they know what they are doing. Yes, they now have a pile of draft picks. But they also ditched the scouting system, and I actually thought the previous scouts were good at their job of finding talented players--who knows about the new guys they put in place? We'll see what McBeane bring us. I am not sanguine about it. Edited August 29, 2017 by Dr. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 All I know is that they better hit on their draft picks, and hope that Watkins, Darby, and Ragland do not realize the potential they were drafted on. This regime has gone out on quite the limb to start off their tenure. I'm very skeptical, but will try and keep an open mind until I see how things play out over the next draft and 2018 season. This season was always a throw away to me once they changed the coaches and GM. Well they both came from a great Carolina franchise so of course they know what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Hello! @IanKenyonNFL What the bills are doing would make a lot more sense if they were trading aging vets instead of good 22-23 year old players Yet the Patriots can cut a 25 year old DE they traded a 2nd Round pick for and they get no flack. Say what you want but a HOF QB makes everyone around them better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 DRK, he was at the helm for a mediocre team and didn't get us to the playoffs. There are far worse categories to wind up in for a gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 ....Fat Albert II is dead weight until 2019.....and he knows it........ Yeah and that has to keep McD and Beane up at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Yet the Patriots can cut a 25 year old DE they traded a 2nd Round pick for and they get no flack. Say what you want but a HOF QB makes everyone around them better. They went 11-5 with Cassell (sp??) and 3-1 without Tom last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Here is a list of some of the players that Whaley acquired through the draft, trade, or free agency that the Bills have gotten rid of that all you McBeane lovers seem to think are worthless. Most of them will be starting for other teams: Sammy Watkins Mike Gillislee Ron Darby Robert Woods Cyrus Koundjio Stephon Gilmore Chris Hogan Kiko Alonzo Among other players Whaley acquired who are still on the team: Preston Brown Jerry Hughes LeSean McCoy Charles Clay Richie Incognito Tyrod Taylor Yes, Whaley whiffed on his attempt of drafting a QB with EJ Manuel. Yes, some of his other draft picks did not pan out. But the failures of the last two years are much more the responsibility of Rex Ryan, and the Pegulas who hired him and gave him as much if not more power than Whaley, though Whaley is also responsible. I thought hiring Rex was a bad idea at the time and said so back then: it meant that Schwartz would be forced out; I would rather have seen them keep Schwartz and hire an offense-minded HC, as Whaley apparently was inclined to do before the Pegulas met Rex and his bottle of red wine. And Whaley is not being given credit for his being able to spot talented street free agents like Gillislee and under-the-radar players like Hogan. The housecleaning that Freebie and the Beane are orchestrating--not of aging veterans but of good young players--does not inspire any confidence in me that they know what they are doing. Yes, they now have a pile of draft picks. But they also ditched the scouting system, and I actually thought the previous scouts were good at their job of finding talented players--who knows about the new guys they put in place? We'll see what McBeane bring us. I am not sanguine about it. No one is saying Whaley was worthless. He made some good moves and some bad moves. Collectively, it didn't amount to squat except a handful of mediocre seasons. I'll take a hard pass on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 No one is saying Whaley was worthless. He made some good moves and some bad moves. Collectively, it didn't amount to squat except a handful of mediocre seasons. I'll take a hard pass on that. LOTS of people on this board are or were saying Whaley was worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFFacet Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 All I know is that they better hit on their draft picks, and hope that Watkins, Darby, and Ragland do not realize the potential they were drafted on. This regime has gone out on quite the limb to start off their tenure. I'm very skeptical, but will try and keep an open mind until I see how things play out over the next draft and 2018 season. This season was always a throw away to me once they changed the coaches and GM. Whether or not those players succeed or fail has no rational bearing on this franchise anymore. I don't see them as being out on a limb at all. These are exactly the type of moves that any new regime can and should make. Their utter refusal to buy into the sunk costs incurred by the previous regime has been refreshing. It is rare to see that degree of rationality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Here is a list of some of the players that Whaley acquired through the draft, trade, or free agency that the Bills have gotten rid of that all you McBeane lovers seem to think are worthless. Most of them will be starting for other teams: Sammy Watkins Mike Gillislee Ron Darby Robert Woods Cyrus Koundjio Stephon Gilmore Chris Hogan Kiko Alonzo You make it sound as if these players are gone, without any compensation. Here's a better chart to compare & contrast Sammy Watkins - Matthews Mike Gillislee - JW Ron Darby – EJ Gaines Robert Woods - Zay Cyrus Koundjio - ??? Stephon Gilmore - White Chris Hogan - Open Kiko Alonzo - Shady Plus, 2018 1st, 2nd, 3rd. It's not like the cupboard is barren al of a sudden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) It is a mess and it seems more and more that Beane and McDermott are determined to get rid of anyone they didn't bring in. I still can't understand how Watkins and Darby specifically wouldn't be helpful long-term. I'm not sure what's so hard to understand, Darby didn't fit our scheme on defense and was also benched at times last season for poor play. Watkins has a ton of talent but can't stay healthy, can't pay a guy a ton of money who doesn't stay on the field, otherwise we'll have 2 Marcell's on the team. Edited August 29, 2017 by BuffaloBillsGospel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 You make it sound as if these players are gone, without any compensation. Here's a better chart to compare & contrast Sammy Watkins - Matthews Mike Gillislee - JW Ron Darby – EJ Gaines Robert Woods - Zay Cyrus Koundjio - ??? Stephon Gilmore - White Chris Hogan - Open Kiko Alonzo - Shady Plus, 2018 1st, 2nd, 3rd. It's not like the cupboard is barren al of a sudden I wonder who made that Alonzo for Shady deal? Was it the same guy who traded down on draft day to get an extra second round pick that he used to draft Alonzo in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 If you truly believe Brandon is telling Beane and McDermott what to do with the team, despite everything to the contrary, there is nothing that can really be said. Enjoy your fantasy world. It sounds like a sad, miserable little world. Why not just move on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Zabka Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) LOTS of people on this board are or were saying Whaley was worthless. In a day that draft picks are gold due to the new rookie wage scale, it is inexcusable to use a 1, 1, 2, 4, 4, 4 on a WR (in the best WR draft in recent memory) and a 3-4 LB. Also factor in drafting only EJ and Cardale at the QB position, and getting the team in cap problems despite zero success, and a slew of other issues...and it's obvious Whaley was in way over his head as a GM. Edited August 29, 2017 by Billy Zabka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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