oldmanfan Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Polian also loved Dick Jauron. How'd that work out? And Greggo knew more then the fans. So did Donahoe. So did Nix. So did Russ, etc, etc, etc. All I can do is judge em based on the moves they've made since being apart of the organization. I'm scratching my head at most. But if you want to blindly follow these guys by all means go for it. This post shows you have no idea what you're talking about, and that all you want to do is be critical without having any knowledge of what you're saying. What possible relevance does Gregg Williams, Nix, etc., etc. have to do with your post about McDermott and Beane being nobodies? There's an easy answer to that: none. From what I recall the NFL Committee to recommend candidates wasn't in existence when Williams was hired, for example. And the most obvious thing of course is that the hires you mention were all done under a different owner. You made the statement that Pegula hired nobodies. They weren't nobodies; they were guys that were well respected in the league and that got their shot. We will see whether they succeed or not. But to then go back into previous ownership decision, about coaches as that somehow has any bearing on the present day situation just shows you want to blindly throw negatives at anything done by this team. You're like the gorilla at the zoo throwing his crap against a wall just to see if some will stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) In fairness, he also cost a fourth rounder. At least they got that back.No. Whaley gave away TWO fourth rounders to move up--for a guy who would have been available anyway. Edited August 29, 2017 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Let's put it this way. Let's say you were looking to hire a chief executive for your company. Most firms like that use executive search firms to identify the most qualified candidates. Of course it does not guarantee success, but it does tell you that the guy you've hired has been vetted by folks who know what to look for. I have no idea whether McDermott will succeed or not. I like that he and Beane have a plan to build through the draft, and that they are walking in synch to work that plan. I can confidently state however that neither of them were nobodies in the NFL, and that they were each highly thought of by folks who actually know what's going on in the league. I wasn't disagreeing with you on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills in oregon Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Apparently teams knew he was on the trading block the minute the new coaching staff and GM were in place. Teams are reporting that the chiefs would be a good fit weeks ago and I'll send out letters out that's way goes to the chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I wasn't disagreeing with you on this. I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Vic CarucciVerified account @viccarucci 19m19 minutes ago More McDermott on trading Ragland: "It was more what Preston Brown did than what Reggie didn't do. Preston Brown has had a great camp." #Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) He's just so scorned. Hell hath no fury like a scorned Bills fan. he is...not that it's not deserving. it's ok not to be angry all the time though. Edited August 29, 2017 by teef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Your reading comprehension blows. Gregg Williams was highly regarded around the league as well was my point. He came in here with a plan and it blew up right in his face. I'm predicting the same will happen with McDermott based on the moves the team has made. What does a different owner doing the hiring have to do with it? I'm being critical of trading away young talented players for future draft picks. It's moronic. . You said he hired nobodies and now you're saying McDermott was highly regarded. Now you're arguing against yourself. As for different owners doing hiring not changing things, that's just laughable. You don't think changing the head of an organization can change things? Be serious. Your reading comprehension blows. Gregg Williams was highly regarded around the league as well was my point. He came in here with a plan and it blew up right in his face. I'm predicting the same will happen with McDermott based on the moves the team has made. What does a different owner doing the hiring have to do with it? I'm being critical of trading away young talented players for future draft picks. It's moronic. And you of course neglect to mention that along with the draft picks they also got two projected starters in Matthews and Gaines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I don't seem to grasp that? The kid has barely played an NFL down and suffered an ACL injury just a year ago. Very premature to trade him based on a few preseason games with his potential. Is that why they traded Sammy for a 2nd round pick? He didn't perform in this league? Potential is nothing. You have to put up or shut up sooner or later. They gave Ragland every chance and he wasnt going to make the team. The GM got a draft pick for a player that was going to get cut. Thats good GMing. You cant keep building a team around sunken costs. That is what has kept this team in hell with regard to the qb position soooo long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Pimpin' Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Your reading comprehension blows. Gregg Williams was highly regarded around the league as well was my point. He came in here with a plan and it blew up right in his face. I'm predicting the same will happen with McDermott based on the moves the team has made. What does a different owner doing the hiring have to do with it? I'm being critical of trading away young talented players for future draft picks. It's moronic. Your "young talented players" consist of 4 people: a receiver who couldn't stay on the field cause of injury, a CB who got benched less than a year ago for bad play, a 4th string QB project and a 3rd string 43 LB coming off an ACL. They got draft picks for each of them and 4 players through trade FA or draft: Matthews, Gaines, Peterman and Humbar who are arguably better than the kids traded. Is this some kind of joke? Are you serious with this post? Edited August 29, 2017 by Bills Pimpin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Potential is nothing. You have to put up or shut up sooner or later. They gave Ragland every chance and he wasnt going to make the team. The GM got a draft pick for a player that was going to get cut. Thats good GMing. You cant keep building a team around sunken costs. That is what has kept this team in hell with regard to the qb position soooo long. I'll disagree. Ragland is clearly not back from his knee injury. Could have stashed him on IR or stared him out on PUP awhile ago. Now he's dumped for a pick in '19. As for QB, how so? I don't think a QB the Bills drafted has started for more than 3 seasons since Kelly retired. What has Pegula changed? He's probably more clueless then Ralph, he's just more willing to spend money. Two protected starters, one in Matthews who isn't in the same class as Watkins and another who's been injured and struggled. The myth of Watkins not being able to stay on the field continues. You think Darby was bad? Gaines has been worse and injured on top of that. Couldn't care less about the Jones trade. Hard to believe that fans are looking at Ramon Humber as some kind of good player on this team. He's a castoff STs guy nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 What has Pegula changed? He's probably more clueless then Ralph, he's just more willing to spend money. Two protected starters, one in Matthews who isn't in the same class as Watkins and another who's been injured and struggled. The myth of Watkins not being able to stay on the field continues. You think Darby was bad? Gaines has been worse and injured on top of that. Couldn't care less about the Jones trade. Both drafted in 2014, so both have had the chance to play in 48 games - Watkins: 37 games played - Matthews: 46 games played Would you rather have Matthews 96% of the time or Watkins 77% of the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 He's just so scorned. Hell hath no fury like a scorned Bills fan. I see this more about wanting to be right about something for the sake of standing around saying "I told you so." Quite possibly the easiest thing to predict in the NFL is failure. Failure in a player. Failure in a coach, a GM, a scheme, or a play. There is so much failure at every level at virtually every team, how difficult is it to see it coming? Not difficult at all. It's easier than trying to predict if Poojer would. Now count, as an example, how many times Tyrod Taylor throws a bad pass, and someone jumps in to a game thread and say something stupid like "I guess now all you TT fanboys are starting see the light, now. If only you listened to me earlier!!!" or "I've seen enough of McDermott to know it's time to move on!" It satisfies some people for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I see this more about wanting to be right about something for the sake of standing around saying "I told you so." Quite possibly the easiest thing to predict in the NFL is failure. Failure in a player. Failure in a coach, a GM, a scheme, or a play. There is so much failure at every level at virtually every team, how difficult is it to see it coming? Not difficult at all. It's easier than trying to predict if Poojer would. Now count, as an example, how many times Tyrod Taylor throws a bad pass, and someone jumps in to a game thread and say something stupid like "I guess now all you TT fanboys are starting see the light, now. If only you listened to me earlier!!!" or "I've seen enough of McDermott to know it's time to move on!" It satisfies some people for some reason. Boy did you nail this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) I see this more about wanting to be right about something for the sake of standing around saying "I told you so." Quite possibly the easiest thing to predict in the NFL is failure. Failure in a player. Failure in a coach, a GM, a scheme, or a play. There is so much failure at every level at virtually every team, how difficult is it to see it coming? Not difficult at all. It's easier than trying to predict if Poojer would. Now count, as an example, how many times Tyrod Taylor throws a bad pass, and someone jumps in to a game thread and say something stupid like "I guess now all you TT fanboys are starting see the light, now. If only you listened to me earlier!!!" or "I've seen enough of McDermott to know it's time to move on!" It satisfies some people for some reason. I think this is accurate with a % of people, but extremely unfair to throw it out there in an argument. There have been times in the past 17 years this type of criticism has been thrown my way because I have been negative. The problem is... the entire essence of this franchise is negative. This is a team who hasn't won a playoff game for nearly a quarter-century. If they miss the playoffs this season, it will be the 5th longest drought in NFL history and it can buy tobacco products and also participate in consensual sex in every US state. For years, it was obvious they were in the same doomed cycle. It wasn't just hoping/betting to be proven right on a message board. It has been miserable. You also have to take into account, people who are conditioned to assume that every decision the team makes will be proven to be wrong. This does have a different feel and not the same MO. It makes me hopeful they have finally joined the 2000s NFL. Itll take a couple years, but I am hopeful Edited August 29, 2017 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 A pick in 2 years ? Lmao Rather have Ragland and see if he recovers Would have liked a Player for Player but got something for a guy that cant play in this system Both of these outcomes wud have been better. 2019 should see mahomes starting and hes doing well. Both drafted in 2014, so both have had the chance to play in 48 games - Watkins: 37 games played - Matthews: 46 games played Would you rather have Matthews 96% of the time or Watkins 77% of the time? Prob get Merced for it but ill take Watkins 77% of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 It was different in that case. Regier actually started the rebuild... and was doing kind of marvelously at it. He purged the roster, the team had accumulated a ton of draft picks and prospects. The fans strongly distrusted WHAT Regier would do with the assets and there was a pretty clear revolt that forced Pegula's hand. 17 years of the guy had worn everyone thin. Murray was supposed to be some sort of savant as far as identifying talent. With all those assets, he failed to bring in much. A number of guys he once scouted that he overpaid for (Kane, Bogosian, Lehner, etc)... He traded a ton of picks for questionable returns, such as 2-2nd round picks and Brayden McNabb (who was a good prospect at the time) for Fasching and Deslauriers. A 3rd for Veseys rights, 1st for Lehner, and so on... By the end of this season, with the Sabres had taken a step back, and Rochester being awful yet again... it was pretty clear that Murray had messed things up pretty badly and things had stalled out. I also feel pretty confident, watching his demeanor.... that he is not a good high-level manager at all. Good post. It also has to be said that Murray wasn't a Pegula hire. He was brought in by Lafontaine to be more/less a glorified scout, while LaFontaine ran the organization. Murray was never hired to be the one running everything. I think he also put himself on the hot seat, to a degree. He came in and said "rebuilds don't need to take years, give me 2 drafts", then he proceeded to trade away much of the draft capital that Regier had stockpiled. I think Pegula was sold on the patient approach and building through the draft by Regier, and when the results weren't there after Murray tried to speed things up, combined with his terrible asset management in trades and his gruff personality plus his end of the year meeting where he supposedly didn't have any real answers on how to fix all the problems the 2016 season showed, it ended up causing Pegula to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Apparently teams knew he was on the trading block the minute the new coaching staff and GM were in place. Teams are reporting that the chiefs would be a good fit weeks ago and I'll send out letters out that's way goes to the chiefs. Ian Rapoport @RapSheet Teams knew early on in the summer that #Bills LB Reggie Ragland would be available. Buffalo was patient, waiting for the right value. Yup. It appears that most teams knew that Ragland wouldn't be a fit in this new defense. He seems like a very specific scheme fit, in a 3-4 like Rex ran and like they run in KC where the DC (Bob Sutton) was a long time Rex Ryan assistant. Sutton worked under Rex in NY for 8 years as a LB coach and defensive coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliBills92 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 With every passing day Whaley's tenure here continues to be shown as a complete and utter failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Chuck Knox said something along the lines that, Buffalo is a coaches graveyard. It's true. Funny he would say that. After he left here he got 2 more HC gigs including a very good run with the Hawks where he is on thier ring of honor. If I look around the NFL now I see 3 HCs we once had. Lynn, Mularkey, and Marrone. Wade was able to get HC gigs after getting canned. Some graveyard . Sounds more like a boot camp to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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