Is McDermott/Bean just Jauron/Levy II?

[Coach Tuesday]

I'm more concerned about the vanilla offense, Gunner.

[GunnerBill]

I'm more concerned about the vanilla offense, Gunner.

 

Same. Don't see explosive play makers in the passing game.

[Putin]

 

You and I are on the same channel. I was happy just to get the last guys out & hire some people from the outside. Getting guys who might actually know what they're doing was a huge bonus.

 

I've been bashing the Bills nonstop for a decade+. The fact that I'm no longer doing so should serve as scientific proof that we're finally on the right track.

I'm sorry but to say we're finally on the right track is a little premature IMO

[BuffaloHokie13]

Nope. We're in a great position to bring in the talent the FO & HC want and build the team with some direction.

[T-Bomb]

Feels like it. 7-9 looks like what the record will be.

 

Even with Sammy.

[Golden*Wheels]

I don't see the McDermott having anything close to the same milquetoast personality as Jauron.

 

To be fair, I've seen pillow pals with more fire than Dick Jauron.

[Niagara Bill]

NO ONE COULD BE AS UNPASSIONATE and UNEMOTIONAL AS Jauron. I once saw him say Geewiz when the refs made a questionable call. I watched as he made sure his QB had a coat on his shoulders during sideline timeouts gatherings in cool weather.

[BADOLBILZ]

I think the misconception is that this defense will be as vanilla and passive as Jauron's.... but then one BADOL did not get right was saying that about Jim Schwartz defense when he arrived here. In fact we heard some of the same things "his record as a DC isn't that good... his D will be vanilla... expect fewer sacks". It morphed mid season into "well sure Schwartz is always successful with talented front 4s but his defense is expensive to maintain if he leaves they should go for a DC who can get production out of no names... like Rex Ryan."

 

McDermott's D will be nasty and aggressive on 1st and 2nd down. Then on 3rd down, yes, it will play a lot of coverage and protect the sticks.

 

Look Badol does get a lot of things right on here but I think he is guilty of seeing every 4-3 defense that doesn't live on blitzes as being the same and by nature being passive. It just isn't true.

 

I have concerns about whether there is enough talent on the back end of this defense but I an not concerned about the scheme. I have seen it in action in Carolina and know it can work.

 

 

That's simply not true Gunner.

 

I don't need to defend my take on Schwartz track record as a DC prior to Buffalo.......it wasn't good.........but you've taken my initial take on the Schwartz transition and stretched it over a ten month period.

 

You've also omitted the most important part.......that Schwartz had taken over for Mike Pettine......who in the blink of an eye had turned around the worst defense the Bills have ever fielded.......and made them a QB-violent front with a multiple, gameplan adaptable back end........which is really the IDEAL.

 

 

And the talk about me clamoring for Rex at mid-season is COMPLETE baloney.....never happened......I was totally on board with Schwartz by the time I saw his wide 9 with Bills personnel in preseason..........but as I said that January when they hired Schwartz......it would be very expensive to maintain the need for 4 pass rushers, linebackers that don't need protection to stop the run and a host of man coverage corners.

 

So basically.......you've created an utterly false narrative.......but feel free to refute me calling you a liar of both fact and omission.

 

As for McDermott........I am not saying he is Jauron........but there are only so many ways for a new coach to try to build a team........and we've seen this simplify and synergize approach before.

 

It didn't work.

 

Perhaps with better X's and O's(Dennison is good) and a more dynamic QB in Tyrod will offset the otherwise lack of Jimmy's and Joe's and yield different results.

 

But being careful with the football and playing zone defense in the secondary was the hallmark of Jauron ball.

 

And getting rid of the Donahoe's talent and using all of their draft assets to replace it with younger, less effective versions of it.....treading water as a roster.......was the hallmark of that Levy/Brandon/Modrak front office.

I'm more concerned about the vanilla offense, Gunner.

 

The offense will be much better than it was under Jauron but going from leading the league in big plays for two years to this approach might be noticeable drop.

 

And why?

 

On defense.........I guess Gunner expects cover 3 to stifle the QB's on the Bills schedule this year............I expect to see A LOT of pitch and catch.......a maddening aspect of Jauron-ball.

 

But we shall see.......will depend greatly on the play of that front 4.

[teef]

eh...!@#$ it. i'm just going to enjoy watching some football and see what unfolds. why bother to be so dramatic about it? some people truly aren't happy unless they're complaining. it's a game. have fun with it.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

That's simply not true Gunner.

 

I don't need to defend my take on Schwartz track record as a DC prior to Buffalo.......it wasn't good.........but you've taken my initial take on the Schwartz transition and stretched it over a ten month period.

 

You've also omitted the most important part.......that Schwartz had taken over for Mike Pettine......who in the blink of an eye had turned around the worst defense the Bills have ever fielded.......and made them a QB-violent front with a multiple, gameplan adaptable back end........which is really the IDEAL.

 

 

And the talk about me clamoring for Rex at mid-season is COMPLETE baloney.....never happened......I was totally on board with Schwartz by the time I saw his wide 9 with Bills personnel in preseason..........but as I said that January when they hired Schwartz......it would be very expensive to maintain the need for 4 pass rushers, linebackers that don't need protection to stop the run and a host of man coverage corners.

 

So basically.......you've created an utterly false narrative.......but feel free to refute me calling you a liar of both fact and omission.

 

 

When did you say that you thought they'd need someone like Rex then? Because it definitely happened in the season before he arrived. The timing I may have misremembered.

 

You have a subjective preference for the Mike Pettine style of defense.... that is fine and I am not even saying it is wrong. But you instincts every time we hire a 4-3 coach are the see that as bland, vanilla and passive. That wasn't true of Schwartz's defense and based on watching McDermott with Carolina (I don't recall having watched as much of his defenses as Philly) it won't be true of our new defense either.

 

The rest about the way they want to build the team character first etc... there may be some truth in. I think it is too early to tell and you are entitled to expect the worst if you like.... the Bills as an organisation have done little to earn the benefit of the doubt.

[BADOLBILZ]

It is just so early for this kind of talk

 

 

It's too early for a question?

 

Again......I am not predicting Jauron results, just pointing out the similarities for the sake of discussion...........the point of TSW...........this McDermott/Beane approach to team-building is not anything new to Bills fans, IMO.

eh...!@#$ it. i'm just going to enjoy watching some football and see what unfolds. why bother to be so dramatic about it? some people truly aren't happy unless they're complaining. it's a game. have fun with it.

 

 

No let's be clear........you are going to glue yourself obsessively to this football message board 24/7 for the next 5 months....you'll post another 3000 times on TSW(about a decades worth of posts for me).......you'll watch maybe 50 hours of Bills football.......and PRETEND you are good with whatever because you are so invested that you can't be objective.

 

How close was that?

 

Me.......I will be here periodically......watch a lot of NCAA and NFL football this fall........tailgate 8-10 times and enjoy life because I realize this is just entertainment.

[BringBackOrton]

Hey, maybe I'd be on your heels if you were right I don't know, maybe one or two times in your predictions for the team. 😂

Eball needs to be wrong like he needs oxygen.

[thebandit27]

It's going to take me more time to come to any kind of conclusion on these guys.

 

What I do see, however, is a far different personality profile for McDermott/Beane than Jauron/Levy, so that's a start.

 

The personnel side of things will, hopefully, become clearer after next offseason.

 

What I agree is worrisome is the idea that this duo's "build through the draft" philosophy is going to be boiled down to "fill holes through the draft", which as you (BADOL) and I have discussed numerous times is a poor strategy.

 

Now, it's possible that the accumulation of picks is analytics-driven, and it could follow suit that the utilization of those picks will also be analytics-driven, which would suggest a BPA-based-on-positional-value approach...and that would be a welcomed improvement.

 

Again though, that's speculation at best.

[PolishDave]

You know this thread is going to resurface after game 1 when McDermott chooses to punt from inside the other team's 40.

[T master]

You need to change your heading !!

 

I'm hoping that your heading should look more like Polian/Levy II & not what yours says !!

 

Jauron was more of a good not great D coordinator, some coaches can be good at one thing & be mediocre at another which i think was Jauron's deal .

 

I hope that we can look back at this move the Pegula's have made when we are in the SB & say yep this was more of a Polian/Levy II type hire !!

 

GO BILLS !!

[BADOLBILZ]

 

When did you say that you thought they'd need someone like Rex then? Because it definitely happened in the season before he arrived. The timing I may have misremembered.

 

You have a subjective preference for the Mike Pettine style of defense.... that is fine and I am not even saying it is wrong. But you instincts every time we hire a 4-3 coach are the see that as bland, vanilla and passive. That wasn't true of Schwartz's defense and based on watching McDermott with Carolina (I don't recall having watched as much of his defenses as Philly) it won't be true of our new defense either.

 

The rest about the way they want to build the team character first etc... there may be some truth in. I think it is too early to tell and you are entitled to expect the worst if you like.... the Bills as an organisation have done little to earn the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

No, I never said that in season regarding Schwartz/Rex.......like I said you just made that up.

 

I gave Schwartz tons of props for his work and wasn't looking for his replacement in season........ferchrissake.

 

And regarding the second highlighted.........too many adjectives........you are just filling in blanks.

 

I never said I saw McDermott's front was bland or passive........Carolina's front was built on pass rushers.........Jauron's front was aggressive too........it's about the back end and I'm not a fan of zone-only secondaries........which is what they've constructed by extracting Darby and Gilmore.

Eball needs to be wrong like he needs oxygen.

 

 

Ain't that the truth........I bust his balls but actually feel bad for the guy.

[GG]

I can see how someone may confuse a well regarded assistant GM for a successful franchise with 15+ yrs of experience, including filling in as GM - for a septuagenarian former coach who's never had a front office job in his career.

 

I can see how someone can confuse a senile skinflint who needed the persuasion of his marketing GM to land one big contract a year to boost ticket sales with an owner of an open checkbook.

 

I can see how somebody can take the "build through the draft" comment and only apply it only to Jauron, when every other organization says the same thing.

 

Because the similarities of the two situations are so so similar, I need to dust off my McCargo jersey for old times sake.

Edited August 16, 2017 by GG

[eball]

I can see how someone may confuse a well regarded assistant GM for a successful franchise with 15+ yrs of experience, including filling in as GM - for a septuagenarian former coach who's never had a front office job in his career.

 

I can see how someone can confuse a senile skinflint who needed the persuasion of his marketing GM to land one big contract a year to boost ticket sales with an owner of an open checkbook.

 

I can see how somebody can take the "build through the draft" comment and only apply it only to Jauron, when every other organization says the same thing.

 

Because the similarities of the two situations are so so similar, I need to dust off my McCargo jersey for old times sake.

 

Come on, GG...good old BADOL is just "stimulating discussion."

[Coach Tuesday]

Again though, isn't the fact that Pegula has invested in an actual front office a key difference this time around? I know Modrak had a decent enough reputation (although I recall it being discussed that he over-relied on BLESTO reports) but the group they brought in this year - paying big money to steal them away from the Chiefs, Texans, etc. - seems far more qualified than anything we've seen around here in a couple of decades.

 

I'm hoping so, at least... and I echo Bandit's point about hoping for an analytical approach to the draft, instead of a hole-plugging strategy...

[teef]

 

 

It's too early for a question?

 

Again......I am not predicting Jauron results, just pointing out the similarities for the sake of discussion...........the point of TSW...........this McDermott/Beane approach to team-building is not anything new to Bills fans, IMO.

 

 

No let's be clear........you are going to glue yourself obsessively to this football message board 24/7 for the next 5 months....you'll post another 3000 times on TSW(about a decades worth of posts for me).......you'll watch maybe 50 hours of Bills football.......and PRETEND you are good with whatever because you are so invested that you can't be objective.

 

How close was that?

 

Me.......I will be here periodically......watch a lot of NCAA and NFL football this fall........tailgate 8-10 times and enjoy life because I realize this is just entertainment.

nah. for anyone to even begin a thread like this they have to be fairly wound up. you complain far too much to be a laid back guy. more than likely you're a fairly solitary man. maybe have a few friends that are willing to put up with your quirks. kinda middle of the road at work...ya know, a guy who really never wows anyone, but also doesn't get in the way. at parties you try to carry on conversation by showing what you know, and people will nod, agree and be nice, but ultimately they're just waiting for you to go away.

 

you're a fairly easy read.