McDermott and Beane - aligned?

[GunnerBill]

Morning TBD..... apologies if this has been raised elsewhere but I couldn't see it in a quick scan of the numerous threads - it was the opening weekend of the Premier League and while trying to digest the Watkins / Darby news my other love - The Arsenal - put me through the ringer Friday night too - so I haven't been on here as much this weekend as normal.

 

The question that has struck me about the decisions to trade Watkins and Darby is this - are McDermott and Beane totally aligned? When Whaley was relieved of his duties after the Draft I never thought there was any chance that the replacement GM was anyone other than Brandon Beane. After the Pegulas had lived through the toxic Doug and Doug era followed by the prickly Doug and Rex era it felt like they had bought in totally to what McDermott was selling and were going to make sure that he had a front office totally ready to deliver his vision. It was the only reason that I gave the team a pass on doing it the "wrong way round" and hiring the coach before the GM.... because they had two guys who knew each other and had something of a shared professional vision.

 

What we know from McDermott's era in total charge (which let's take as February to May) is that he was preparing this team to win in 2017. They kept Tyrod on a reduced contract which essentially said "we know he isn't the long term answer but he is our best bet to win now", they convinced Kyle to come back from one more shot, they signed a bunch of low end free agents for depth (who if on the roster for the qualifying period likely cost them compensatory picks), they drafted back in the 1st round with 2 of the "top 3" Quarterbacks on the board to take a pro ready corner and then they drafted UP twice in the 2nd round of the draft to get "pro ready" players at WR and OT. All of that suggested that the plan was have a successful 2017 so that the pressure is off the new regime going into years 2 and 3 when you might be trying to bed in a new 1st round Quarterback.

 

Brandon Beane arrived in May and the first "big" moves he has made are to trade away the team's best receiver and a starting cornerback for draft capital in 2018. Now at the same time he has signed Anquan Boldin, attempted to sing Jeremy Maclin and made an offer to Gary Barnidge.... but there is little doubt in what went down on Friday that Brandon Beane is looking beyond 2017.

 

Is that really aligned with where McDermott seemed to be pointing the organisation through the spring? Has Beane used his personal relationship with McDermott to convince him they should prioritise rebuilding? Are McDermott and Beane so emboldened by the level of power that the Pegulas seem to have given them that they think they can afford a 3 year rebuild where the Bills don't win until 2019? Or actually does Beane really mean it when he says the team are still actively trying to win in 2017..... ("now and in the future")?

 

Things had got kind of quiet and a bit dull in the organisation since the serious and sober McDermott and Beane arrived..... but it wouldn't be the Bills without some drama and intrigue and now we have some.

[oldmanfan]

We only have intrigue because you're dreaming it up.

[YoloinOhio]

I do think they are aligned. I do think McD wants to win as many games a possible this year. But I think they are prioritizing rebuilding the foundation of the team so at some point this century they can win more than 9 games. We may not like some of the band aids they are ripping off in the process but there is most certainly an eye toward the future that hasn't been there in as long as I can remember.

Edited August 14, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Tsaikotic]

if they had traded away Darby and Watkins for only the draft picks then maybe you could say he's only looking into the future but they got decent players and draft picks which says to me that they want to win now and build for the future...Mathews is a good WR that can play the outside but just plays the slot better...Gaines had a decent rookie year and then had an injury and bad year just like Darby did, the difference is I'm assuming McD sees Gaines playing more to the style he wants and Darby not so much...everyone keeps saying the Bills got worse and not better when actually in my view it was just a lateral move...Buffalo had the 10th ranked offense last year without Watkins and a WR core that was dreadful...they have a much better WR core this year with Boldin, Mathews and Jones...ppl are going to say "but last year we had Goodwin that could go deep"...sure he went deep but couldn't catch a ball unless it fell in his hands...lots of teams have deep threat guys that didn't run at burning speeds...I feel Mathews will be easier to re-sign next year then Watkins would have been, and cheaper...also I see Mathews as taking over the slot for Boldin next year if he doesn't re-sign with Bills...Bills can draft a speedy deep threat next draft and have a great WR group

[Wayne Cubed]

I know a lot of people around here seem to think their is some plan in place for the future. Unfortunately I don't see it.

 

-Beane admitted in his PC he wasn't shopping anyone, that it was LA that really wanted Watkins. So if he wasn't shopping Watkins, he was initially in the future plans of the Bills. Why did a 2nd round pick suddenly change his mind?

 

- If you are attempting to rebuild through the draft, why not tank? What's the point in remaining mediocre? Unload Richie and Kyle. Don't resign Tyrod. Go for that top 5 pick instead of finishing out of the top 10 and using draft collateral to move up. You could get 2 guys in the first and if one of them is a QB who doesn't work out you won't have wasted all these picks on moving up for 1 guy. Plus you'll have more of your "types" of guys on the team.

 

- I'm not sure Watkins or Darbys replacement would ever come via FA with this regime. Matthews and Gaines are a 1 year rental at this point and then the Bills will be looking for a starting CB and a #1 WR. So drafting.

[Captain_Quint]

I think that what theyre saying at the press conferences isnt necessarily how they really look at it. And to answer your question, yes I think that they know it will take at least two years to be competitive the way they want to be.

 

This year, go with what Mcdermott knows and shore up the D. Draft your QB in 2018 and use that year to get the offense together. If the stars align, Brady retires, and you make the right moves along the way, we should have a team in 2019.

[GunnerBill]

We only have intrigue because you're dreaming it up.

 

Nope. We definitely traded away 2 players on Friday. I was awake. I think it is intriguing to ask how that fits with the very clear steer McDermott gave in the spring. Have they changed tac and if so who was the driving force in that change.

[mead107]

On same page as I see it

[cba fan]

 

Nope. We definitely traded away 2 players on Friday. I was awake. I think it is intriguing to ask how that fits with the very clear steer McDermott gave in the spring. Have they changed tac and if so who was the driving force in that change.

Driving force is clearly any team who calls and expresses interest in elite young talented players who previously to this contact Bills were not shopping and planned on keeping and building a winning team around.

 

I wonder what Beane is going to do when Jets call offering a high 2018 draft pick for McDerma to be their DC??

 

This team FO continues to be a cluster****. Trying to fiqure out who is in charge is like the Abbott ansd Costello "who's on third skit"

Edited August 14, 2017 by cba fan

[offsides#76FredSmerlas]

I think McDermott has been pretty transparent. The team wants to win now but get better going in to the future. Coach McDermott said they talked about it for hours. If Beane didn't need or desire his approval then there would have been no discussion before pulling the trigger. If the odds were they didn't want to sign Sammy long term then I'm confident they put feelers out for Sammy to see what they could get. Coach McDermott and Bean I'm sure discussed what they plan on doing with every guy on the roster; they probably discussed J.Hughes, K. Williams, L. Mccoy,and E. Woods to name a few other players. I doubt there is no plan in place and our coach seems very organized.

Edited August 14, 2017 by offsides#76FredSmerlas

[Wayne Arnold]

I know a lot of people around here seem to think their is some plan in place for the future. Unfortunately I don't see it.

 

-Beane admitted in his PC he wasn't shopping anyone, that it was LA that really wanted Watkins. So if he wasn't shopping Watkins, he was initially in the future plans of the Bills. Why did a 2nd round pick suddenly change his mind?

 

- If you are attempting to rebuild through the draft, why not tank? What's the point in remaining mediocre? Unload Richie and Kyle. Don't resign Tyrod. Go for that top 5 pick instead of finishing out of the top 10 and using draft collateral to move up. You could get 2 guys in the first and if one of them is a QB who doesn't work out you won't have wasted all these picks on moving up for 1 guy. Plus you'll have more of your "types" of guys on the team.

 

- I'm not sure Watkins or Darbys replacement would ever come via FA with this regime. Matthews and Gaines are a 1 year rental at this point and then the Bills will be looking for a starting CB and a #1 WR. So drafting.

 

"Shopping" is a relative term. He wasn't desperate to get Sammy out of Buffalo. But make no mistake - Beane had been trying to get a first-rounder for Sammy since he was hired. The best they were offered was a 2nd rounder so Beane finally pulled the trigger with the Rams considering they were probably the worst team willing to give them a 2nd rounder for a guy who is going into his final year of his rookie contract.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Wayne Arnold

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

And got a receiver back who's put up better numbers than Sammy has. Sammy certainly has more potential, but to date hasn't shown it.

 

 

Morning TBD..... apologies if this has been raised elsewhere but I couldn't see it in a quick scan of the numerous threads - it was the opening weekend of the Premier League and while trying to digest the Watkins / Darby news my other love - The Arsenal - put me through the ringer Friday night too - so I haven't been on here as much this weekend as normal.

 

The question that has struck me about the decisions to trade Watkins and Darby is this - are McDermott and Beane totally aligned? When Whaley was relieved of his duties after the Draft I never thought there was any chance that the replacement GM was anyone other than Brandon Beane. After the Pegulas had lived through the toxic Doug and Doug era followed by the prickly Doug and Rex era it felt like they had bought in totally to what McDermott was selling and were going to make sure that he had a front office totally ready to deliver his vision. It was the only reason that I gave the team a pass on doing it the "wrong way round" and hiring the coach before the GM.... because they had two guys who knew each other and had something of a shared professional vision.

 

What we know from McDermott's era in total charge (which let's take as February to May) is that he was preparing this team to win in 2017. They kept Tyrod on a reduced contract which essentially said "we know he isn't the long term answer but he is our best bet to win now", they convinced Kyle to come back from one more shot, they signed a bunch of low end free agents for depth (who if on the roster for the qualifying period likely cost them compensatory picks), they drafted back in the 1st round with 2 of the "top 3" Quarterbacks on the board to take a pro ready corner and then they drafted UP twice in the 2nd round of the draft to get "pro ready" players at WR and OT. All of that suggested that the plan was have a successful 2017 so that the pressure is off the new regime going into years 2 and 3 when you might be trying to bed in a new 1st round Quarterback.

 

Brandon Beane arrived in May and the first "big" moves he has made are to trade away the team's best receiver and a starting cornerback for draft capital in 2018. Now at the same time he has signed Anquan Boldin, attempted to sing Jeremy Maclin and made an offer to Gary Barnidge.... but there is little doubt in what went down on Friday that Brandon Beane is looking beyond 2017.

 

Is that really aligned with where McDermott seemed to be pointing the organisation through the spring? Has Beane used his personal relationship with McDermott to convince him they should prioritise rebuilding? Are McDermott and Beane so emboldened by the level of power that the Pegulas seem to have given them that they think they can afford a 3 year rebuild where the Bills don't win until 2019? Or actually does Beane really mean it when he says the team are still actively trying to win in 2017..... ("now and in the future")?

 

Things had got kind of quiet and a bit dull in the organisation since the serious and sober McDermott and Beane arrived..... but it wouldn't be the Bills without some drama and intrigue and now we have some.

 

 

Yes and got two players back in return, one who's put up better numbers than Sammy has.

 

So you expect McDermott to say back in the spring, "We don't care about winning now, we're going for 2018 and beyond?" It amazes me here how everyone takes everything coaches/GM's, Owners even players say at 100% truth. No one in that position is going to tell you exactly what their thoughts truly are. They are going to tell you want they want you to hear and nothing more or less.

 

 

Nope. We definitely traded away 2 players on Friday. I was awake. I think it is intriguing to ask how that fits with the very clear steer McDermott gave in the spring. Have they changed tac and if so who was the driving force in that change.

[GunnerBill]

 

So you expect McDermott to say back in the spring, "We don't care about winning now, we're going for 2018 and beyond?" It amazes me here how everyone takes everything coaches/GM's, Owners even players say at 100% truth. No one in that position is going to tell you exactly what their thoughts truly are. They are going to tell you want they want you to hear and nothing more or less.

 

 

I thought I made it clear that my interpretation of McDermott's view was based on actions not words.

[BarleyNY]

I do think they are aligned. I do think McD wants to win as many games a possible this year. But I think they are prioritizing rebuilding the foundation of the team so at some point this century they can win more than 9 games. We may not like some of the band aids they are ripping off in the process but there is most certainly an eye toward the future that hasn't been there in as long as I can remember.

Agreed. Now is the time for this new regime to mold the team into the type they want. They're getting rid of players that they don't want to keep - or can't keep. They've jettisoned and replaced pretty much the whole defensive backfield from last season. It had been one in transition from press zone, C2 to man, C0. Now we're moving to C3 with a lot of bail tech by the CBs. I didn't expect such a thorough house cleaning, but I can see why it was done.

 

Watson, however talented, is a huge risk. He has yet to produce at a level near his talent level and with one more season left on his rookie deal, there's a tough, risky decision in the near future. Sammy is going to get paid well by some team after this season, but it'll be a team who's regime is in trouble and doesn't mind taking a big risk. The stable teams won't value him as highly because they won't shell out big money for such risk. And that's why the Bills got what they could for him now - they aren't in a spot where they need to take big risks like that so they were moving on after this season anyway.

 

We only have intrigue because you're dreaming it up.

Also this.

[Captain_Quint]

 

"Shopping" is a relative term. He wasn't desperate to get Sammy out of Buffalo. But make no mistake - Beane had been trying to get a first-rounder for Sammy since he was hired. The best they were offered was a 2nd rounder so Beane finally pulled the trigger with the Rams considering they were probably the worst team willing to give them a 2nd rounder for a guy who is going into his final year of his rookie contract.

If this is really the case, why not pick up the 5th yr and then try to trade him? Not disagreeing with you, but if the plan was to move Sammy from day 1, why not try to maximize his value?

[KGun12TD]

We only have intrigue because you're dreaming it up.

Thank you for THIS!!!

[YoloinOhio]

I believe that there is a lot that we as fans do not know about the team structure, plan, and the players. For whatever reason or reasons, they do not see Watkins as part of the future or one they feel is worth the money he will command on either a tag or a long term deal. Whether or not he was interested in staying. We simply do not know what has been communicated by his agent or by him behind closed doors. Or what has taken place with him and teammates and coaches. We can speculate until we are blue on the face. All we can ascertain is that the Bills made the decision to get a pick in return, before he was gone for nothing in return. Whether or not we as fans think he should be tagged or should be signed makes no difference. There is always more to the story and the leaks have stopped from OBD.

Edited August 14, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Tsaikotic]

I believe that there is a lot that we as fans do not know about the team structure, plan, and the players. For whatever reason or reasons, they do not see Watkins as part of the future or one they feel is worth the money he will command on either a tag or a long term deal. Whether or not he was interested in staying. We simply do not know what has been communicated by his agent or by him behind closed doors. Or what has taken place with him and teammates and coaches. We can speculate until we are blue on the face. All we can ascertain is that the Bills made the decision to get a pick in return, before he was gone for nothing in return. Whether or not we as fans think he should be tagged or should be signed makes no difference. There is always more to the story and the leaks have stopped from OBD.

+1

[oldmanfan]

 

Nope. We definitely traded away 2 players on Friday. I was awake. I think it is intriguing to ask how that fits with the very clear steer McDermott gave in the spring. Have they changed tac and if so who was the driving force in that change.

You are dreaming about the coach and GM not being in agreement. Trying to make something out of nothing. Beane said he didn't make the move until he and McD and the owner discussed and agreed.

If this is really the case, why not pick up the 5th yr and then try to trade him? Not disagreeing with you, but if the plan was to move Sammy from day 1, why not try to maximize his value?

If you want to move him why spend an extra 13 million next year that you could spend on other spots. Not saying I agree with the trade, but this would be the logic behind the decision.

[KDIGGZ]

if this was previous years there would be leaks about how the coach and GM don't get along and don't see eye to eye. this duo and maybe Chan and Nix before them are the only ones where i don't think that will be an issue. they seem to be very close and very like minded and they probably work very well together