McDermott and Beane - aligned?

[BADOLBILZ]

If he believes this he really is clueless.

 

If we don't have a winning season by next year, his seat is VERY HOT if he still has one.

 

We love to talk about building a super bowl team to dominate for a decade blah blah blah. Let a few losses pile up, and pitchforks will brought out hastily.

 

You're Terry's 4th coach in 4 years of ownership. There's no time to screw around.

 

It's not an accident that BOTH Marrone and Rex gave unexpected ultimatums to TPegs.

 

They didn't respect him.

 

When you let a coach/GM have anything they want all the time the way he did with Rex..... like a spoiled child......it becomes a travesty when every answer isn't a resolute yes.

[eball]

 

It's not an accident that BOTH Marrone and Rex gave unexpected ultimatums to TPegs.

 

They didn't respect him.

 

When you let a coach/GM have anything they want all the time the way he did with Rex..... like a spoiled child......it becomes a travesty when every answer isn't a resolute yes.

 

Why is it so difficult to believe that the Pegulas are learning on the job? The Sabres and Bills almost mirror each other since their purchase. The Pegulas began by trying to keep continuity (mistake #1 -- these weren't "stable" winning organizations), then made mistake #2 by hiring an arrogant arse (Murray) with the Sabres and a Brandon-influenced splashy hire (Rex) with the Bills. Only after watching these situations implode have they done the "right" thing by truly cleaning house and starting fresh.

 

It's not that they "don't have a clue" at all. They just took longer than we would have liked to do what was necessary in both instances.

 

I really believe both organizations are now finally set up for established success -- the GMs and coaches were selected this time around not to sell tickets or make headlines, but through research and reputation.

 

Fan consternation over the Watkins trade is short-sighted. Despite McD saying he "owns" the playoff drought, you can't realistically put the past 17 years on he and Beane. And there is absolutely zero evidence of Beane and McD not being "aligned."

[GunnerBill]

And there is absolutely zero evidence of Beane and McD not being "aligned."

 

Maybe my title for this thread has misled some.... because I am not trying to suggest that McD and Beane are at loggerheads or that McD disagreed with the trades or anything like that. I was trying to say.... and I think the post explained this.... that the actions when it was just McD running the show were all symbolic of a team trying to win in 2017, whereas since Beane joined the team there has been a bit more of a look towards the future at the expense of the present - ie. the vision Feb - May isn't aligned exactly with the vision May - August.

 

I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that has happened because Beane and McDermott have such trust in each other that Brandon has convinced Sean that they should shift some focus.

 

As often happens here people are so keen to leap to the defense of the organisation that they read my post as an attack rather than as a genuine attempt to understand that movement in our focus. I was pro-hiring McDermott and given my strong desire for a unified organisation after all the infighting I was pro-hiring Beane as well. I think they can be a good team - I am not starting to campaign against either. But there has been a shift in approach - even just judged on actions - I thought that was worth discussing.

[oldmanfan]

 

Maybe my title for this thread has misled some.... because I am not trying to suggest that McD and Beane are at loggerheads or that McD disagreed with the trades or anything like that. I was trying to say.... and I think the post explained this.... that the actions when it was just McD running the show were all symbolic of a team trying to win in 2017, whereas since Beane joined the team there has been a bit more of a look towards the future at the expense of the present - ie. the vision Feb - May isn't aligned exactly with the vision May - August.

 

I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that has happened because Beane and McDermott have such trust in each other that Brandon has convinced Sean that they should shift some focus.

 

As often happens here people are so keen to leap to the defense of the organisation that they read my post as an attack rather than as a genuine attempt to understand that movement in our focus. I was pro-hiring McDermott and given my strong desire for a unified organisation after all the infighting I was pro-hiring Beane as well. I think they can be a good team - I am not starting to campaign against either. But there has been a shift in approach - even just judged on actions - I thought that was worth discussing.

Thus clarifies things a lot. I would still disagree. I think both are aligned in terms of wanting to win now but also establishing a long term approach to having sustained success. They seem to have a vision of the kind of team they want to build.

[Malazan]

We only have intrigue because you're dreaming it up.

 

This x 1000000

[oldmanfan]

Giving away good young talent is a bad start.... In a league where immediate results are crucial for your job security.

They have a long leash despite your protests to the contrary.

[JohnC]

 

Maybe my title for this thread has misled some.... because I am not trying to suggest that McD and Beane are at loggerheads or that McD disagreed with the trades or anything like that. I was trying to say.... and I think the post explained this.... that the actions when it was just McD running the show were all symbolic of a team trying to win in 2017, whereas since Beane joined the team there has been a bit more of a look towards the future at the expense of the present - ie. the vision Feb - May isn't aligned exactly with the vision May - August.

 

I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that has happened because Beane and McDermott have such trust in each other that Brandon has convinced Sean that they should shift some focus.

 

As often happens here people are so keen to leap to the defense of the organisation that they read my post as an attack rather than as a genuine attempt to understand that movement in our focus. I was pro-hiring McDermott and given my strong desire for a unified organisation after all the infighting I was pro-hiring Beane as well. I think they can be a good team - I am not starting to campaign against either. But there has been a shift in approach - even just judged on actions - I thought that was worth discussing.

When you bring up Brandon as being an influencer in these transactions you are stretching the boundaries of reality into the realm of absurdity.

 

This team is being rebuilt with the intention of being as competitive as possible. The Watkins and Darby deals that include draft picks in return is not only an acknowledgement of that transition but demonstrates an acceleration of it.

 

My intention is not to gratuitously criticize your position. For the most part you and I have very similar views. But intensively scrutinizing a coach's words that are nothing but the standard inane "coach speak" is dedicating too much thought into typical football bland commentary.

Edited August 15, 2017 by JohnC

[eball]

 

Maybe my title for this thread has misled some.... because I am not trying to suggest that McD and Beane are at loggerheads or that McD disagreed with the trades or anything like that. I was trying to say.... and I think the post explained this.... that the actions when it was just McD running the show were all symbolic of a team trying to win in 2017, whereas since Beane joined the team there has been a bit more of a look towards the future at the expense of the present - ie. the vision Feb - May isn't aligned exactly with the vision May - August.

 

I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that has happened because Beane and McDermott have such trust in each other that Brandon has convinced Sean that they should shift some focus.

 

As often happens here people are so keen to leap to the defense of the organisation that they read my post as an attack rather than as a genuine attempt to understand that movement in our focus. I was pro-hiring McDermott and given my strong desire for a unified organisation after all the infighting I was pro-hiring Beane as well. I think they can be a good team - I am not starting to campaign against either. But there has been a shift in approach - even just judged on actions - I thought that was worth discussing.

 

Mea culpa -- I didn't read your original post; when I clicked on the thread I went right to the end and responded to a different post.

 

I do disagree that the vision has changed. As many have stated, it is extremely unlikely the presence of Watkins/Darby on the team this year have an impact on the W-L record, so I reject the premise that they are "no longer" trying to win in 2017. This is still a run first team whose defense will rely upon the front seven. What Beane has added is an aggressive approach towards building for the future, which makes perfect sense. Head coach -- win now. GM -- support present team and build for the future.

[GunnerBill]

 

Mea culpa -- I didn't read your original post; when I clicked on the thread I went right to the end and responded to a different post.

 

I do disagree that the vision has changed. As many have stated, it is extremely unlikely the presence of Watkins/Darby on the team this year have an impact on the W-L record, so I reject the premise that they are "no longer" trying to win in 2017. This is still a run first team whose defense will rely upon the front seven. What Beane has added is an aggressive approach towards building for the future, which makes perfect sense. Head coach -- win now. GM -- support present team and build for the future.

 

I don't think they are tanking or throwing in the towel on 2017 but trading Watkins and Darby is not a move you make if you are all in on winning this year which was my perception of where they were Feb-May based on the moves they made.

 

The next testing ground for me is the final 53. If a lot of the bargain basement FA pickups end up on the cutting room floor bringing the Bills back into a positive comp pick formula position I think that is another sure sign that Beane has shifted the focus at least to some extent from where it was before he arrived. Not a bad thing in my mind because as you know eball I thought we were at best an outside bet for a wildcard this year regardless.

[LabattBlue]

I'm not saying McD and Beane aren't on the same page, but this notion at the time they were hired, that they are perfect fits as GM & HC because of their relationship in Carolina was never a correct assumption...starting with the fact that the Asst GM and a DC don't exactly have a line between them on the org chart.

 

Here's hoping it works out, as this is getting tiring.

[eball]

 

I don't think they are tanking or throwing in the towel on 2017 but trading Watkins and Darby is not a move you make if you are all in on winning this year which was my perception of where they were Feb-May based on the moves they made.

 

The next testing ground for me is the final 53. If a lot of the bargain basement FA pickups end up on the cutting room floor bringing the Bills back into a positive comp pick formula position I think that is another sure sign that Beane has shifted the focus at least to some extent from where it was before he arrived. Not a bad thing in my mind because as you know eball I thought we were at best an outside bet for a wildcard this year regardless.

 

I think if I never hear the phrase "all in" again it will still be too soon. Coaches are always trying to win.

 

If the Bills had not gotten a productive starting WR and viable CB out of the trades I would agree with you about undercutting the current season for the future. But that's not what happened. Do you really think Watkins/Darby would mean more wins for the Bills this season, given their offensive and defensive philosophies? I don't.

[papazoid]

"aligned".....as close as any gm/coach could be. you will never have 100% agreement.

 

long term (future 2018) goals will take precedent over short term (now 2017) goals.

 

which is better value for 2018 ??? Sammy at $16 mil/yr or the Ram's early 2nd round pick at $1.75 mil/yr

[Figster]

They have a long leash despite your protests to the contrary.

Sure , If they do what their told.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Why is it so difficult to believe that the Pegulas are learning on the job?

 

 

I never said that but by all means create the narrative that I did.

 

I said TPegs still has a weak grasp(no clue) of how to handle the situation.

 

Keep in mind that this guy was a casual sports fan to put in mildly.

 

He LIVED in OP during the SB era and never attended a game.

 

I think this is just a guy who made a fortune doing boring things in a field that wasn't inclusive to all of his family and he wanted to do something fun with the rest of his life that he could share with family.

 

His financial advisor tried to tell him that it wasn't necessarily going to be as fun as it seemed.......but TPegs had made up his mind.

 

Now he is finding out that it's a thankless job if you aren't skilled at it.

[BarleyNY]

Sure , If they do what their told.

What if they've been told to build for the long run and for an eventual SB run rather than to expend capital to push to be one of 5 or 6 teams with a shot at a WC spot and an early playoff exit in the short term?

Edited August 15, 2017 by BarleyNY

[xsoldier54]

Morning TBD..... apologies if this has been raised elsewhere but I couldn't see it in a quick scan of the numerous threads - it was the opening weekend of the Premier League and while trying to digest the Watkins / Darby news my other love - The Arsenal - put me through the ringer Friday night too - so I haven't been on here as much this weekend as normal.

 

The question that has struck me about the decisions to trade Watkins and Darby is this - are McDermott and Beane totally aligned? When Whaley was relieved of his duties after the Draft I never thought there was any chance that the replacement GM was anyone other than Brandon Beane. After the Pegulas had lived through the toxic Doug and Doug era followed by the prickly Doug and Rex era it felt like they had bought in totally to what McDermott was selling and were going to make sure that he had a front office totally ready to deliver his vision. It was the only reason that I gave the team a pass on doing it the "wrong way round" and hiring the coach before the GM.... because they had two guys who knew each other and had something of a shared professional vision.

 

What we know from McDermott's era in total charge (which let's take as February to May) is that he was preparing this team to win in 2017. They kept Tyrod on a reduced contract which essentially said "we know he isn't the long term answer but he is our best bet to win now", they convinced Kyle to come back from one more shot, they signed a bunch of low end free agents for depth (who if on the roster for the qualifying period likely cost them compensatory picks), they drafted back in the 1st round with 2 of the "top 3" Quarterbacks on the board to take a pro ready corner and then they drafted UP twice in the 2nd round of the draft to get "pro ready" players at WR and OT. All of that suggested that the plan was have a successful 2017 so that the pressure is off the new regime going into years 2 and 3 when you might be trying to bed in a new 1st round Quarterback.

 

Brandon Beane arrived in May and the first "big" moves he has made are to trade away the team's best receiver and a starting cornerback for draft capital in 2018. Now at the same time he has signed Anquan Boldin, attempted to sing Jeremy Maclin and made an offer to Gary Barnidge.... but there is little doubt in what went down on Friday that Brandon Beane is looking beyond 2017.

 

Is that really aligned with where McDermott seemed to be pointing the organisation through the spring? Has Beane used his personal relationship with McDermott to convince him they should prioritise rebuilding? Are McDermott and Beane so emboldened by the level of power that the Pegulas seem to have given them that they think they can afford a 3 year rebuild where the Bills don't win until 2019? Or actually does Beane really mean it when he says the team are still actively trying to win in 2017..... ("now and in the future")?

 

Things had got kind of quiet and a bit dull in the organisation since the serious and sober McDermott and Beane arrived..... but it wouldn't be the Bills without some drama and intrigue and now we have some.

Let's not over analyze. I think that both McDermott and Beane want to win in 2017 but also want to set the team up for long term success. Both have stated exactly that. They are on the same page. Make no mistake, the deals that they made last Friday do exactly that. I'll take Boldin, Matthews and Jones over an injured Watson, Woods and Goodwin which is what we had for most of last year. Overall the WR corps is stronger and should be more productive this year than last. And with two picks in each of the first three rounds, we are set to add some really good players next year as well. These guys are definitely on the same page and it is very clearly obvious.

 

 

I never said that but by all means create the narrative that I did.

 

I said TPegs still has a weak grasp(no clue) of how to handle the situation.

 

Keep in mind that this guy was a casual sports fan to put in mildly.

 

He LIVED in OP during the SB era and never attended a game.

 

I think this is just a guy who made a fortune doing boring things in a field that wasn't inclusive to all of his family and he wanted to do something fun with the rest of his life that he could share with family.

 

His financial advisor tried to tell him that it wasn't necessarily going to be as fun as it seemed.......but TPegs had made up his mind.

 

Now he is finding out that it's a thankless job if you aren't skilled at it.

The owner does not have to be skilled at anything but providing capital. It's the football people that have to have some skill. Pegula knows how to hire competent people. Granted he made a mistake with Rex, but I believe it was Whaley that convinced him and he inherited Whaley. I'm perfectly content with this ownership and this FO and coaching staff. Time will tell if I'm right.

[Figster]

What if they've been told to build for the long run and for an eventual SB run rather than expending capital to push to be one of 5 or 6 teams with a shot at a WC spot and early playoff exit in the short term?

Why not accomplish both? Other teams seem to remain competitive without gutting the team of talent and you want to know why?

 

Good coaching/systems IMO,

 

and a FO That lets the GM and HC do their job without interference...

Edited August 15, 2017 by Figster

[oldmanfan]

Why not accomplish both? Other teams seem to remain competitive without gutting the team of talent and you want to know why?

 

Good coaching/systems IMO,

 

and a FO That lets the GM and HC do their job without interference...

Which is what they are doing.

[Figster]

Which is what they are doing.

I sure hope so oldman

[Billsmovinup]

We only have intrigue because you're dreaming it up.

I think they are aligned but I sensed a little bit of dissatifaction coming from Mcdermott after the trade. Like he realized this was a step back and wasnt really thrilled with the impact this was going to have on this season. That however if true is a good thing. It means Beane is his own guy and has a certain amount of power. I dont want a puppet as a GM.

Giving away good young talent is a bad start.... In a league where immediate results are crucial for your job security.

I agree.