John from Riverside Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 There's a reason why we passed the ball less than anyone else. Most of it has to do with having an elite rushing attack. The other part is having a QB who is not all that great at throwing from the pocket. I know you like to get super defensive when people question Tyrod and his ability so I'm not really interested in this super long and pointless back and forth with you. You're probably smart enough and watch enough football to know what really good QB play looks like. We don't have that and until we do I want to keep looking for potential upgrades. I think he's adequate for now but his play does not make me content with the position long term. I got no problem continuing to look for and draft replacements at the most important position on the field I just want people to understand it can EASILY be worse while we continue to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Give TT a clean slate? Does that mean people can say he's unproven? Good so we agree that we need a passing offense this season ...twist it to mean whatever you want......going azz backwards about manipulative stats to prove or disprove one's point about the guy does nothing...what is passed is in the past.......we are aware of his strengths and weaknesses irrespective of stats.....Roman went ballistic internally with the Cassel trade so I'm not sure (and we'll NEVER know) how much he was enamored with TT as his QB...with his abrupt firing, Lynn got caught in the cross fire and had to go into offense maintenance mode....at least the situation is far more stable now with Dennison at the helm and I think he is the right guy to develop an effective offense that fits TT's style.....will it work??...stay tuned.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 A qb that is trending down is actually even worse..... but....it actually looks fairly steady and the numbers go up and down depending on who he is throwing to He trended down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 I got no problem continuing to look for and draft replacements at the most important position on the field I just want people to understand it can EASILY be worse while we continue to do that. Actually, it can't really be much worse, certainly not EASILY.... The coaching staff did their best to hide TT last year and almost did so behind the best running game in the league. Expect more of the same this year.... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2016&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Yes. I saw no improvement from 15-16. A QB who isn't trending up is a bad sign. There aren't too many QBs out there that trend up when they field last minute grocery baggers as their starting wr core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 In other words, there can be 32 above average quarterbacks based on some standardized criteria if they are all assessed above what is considered "average." This happens every year in the Lake Wobegon Football League (LWFL) where all QBs are above average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) First of all, it's not about questioning him as a QB, it's about defining him. I still have questions about him, which is why I'm glad he has another year to try to define himself.He's going to get every opportunity to prove his worth and I hope that this new offense allows him to be great. I'm glad you acknowledge our low passing attempts was essentially because of an elite running game.Only a crazy person would pretend otherwise. As to the end of your post I just want you to answer a very simple "yes" or "no" to the following question: If 2015-2016 were Taylor's rookie and sophomore years and he played as he did, would you still feel "bleh" about him? This is such a ridiculous question. Obviously if Tyrod started here as a rookie then you'd feel better about him because he'd still be very young and getting acclimated to the NFL. You could be much more optimistic about his development as a player and passer. The reality is that he's entering his 7th year in the league so it's not as simple as you want to make it seem. It's probably likely that he's reached his ceiling as a player or is pretty close to it Edited July 29, 2017 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Yes. I saw no improvement from 15-16. A QB who isn't trending up is a bad sign. That wasn't a "yes" or a "no." Ever heard of "sophomore slump?" It happens. Plus, 2015 will not be an easy year to match in terms of production and efficiency, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 It's simple. There is a distinction between an above average quarterback based on some kind of standardized criteria and a quarterback who is above average based on being ranked above 15 among the 32 quarterbacks. In other words, there can be 32 above average quarterbacks based on some standardized criteria if they are all assessed above what is considered "average." I didn't read all the pages. So, someone may have already explained this to you. This is such an excellent point. Quarterbacking in the NFL might just be at a really high level right now. And if that's the case, even the 20th best QB in that type of year would still be perceived as a good QB in many other years. That's what needs to happen regardless. And then the pick needs to live up to the hype and take Tyrod's spot. Seriously? Draft a QB in the first no matter what?!?! Absolutely not! Actually, it can't really be much worse, certainly not EASILY.... The coaching staff did their best to hide TT last year and almost did so behind the best running game in the league. Expect more of the same this year.... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2016&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go Wow... this is ridiculous... It absolutely can easily be much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPT Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 I am not talking about excuses like well if Sammy stays healthy or stuff like that, I would like my QB to be effective with whoever is on the field. This requirement is always pretty absurd. There isn't a quarterback in history who can perform as well with practice squad receivers as he can with true starters. Brady has Gronk & Edelman, Matt Ryan has Julio, Roethlisberger has Antonio, Brees had Jimmy Graham and Brandin Cooks and Marques Colston. All of those quarterbacks have also had top defenses and/or top running games when their teams have been successful. GM's and coaches and analysts all talk about getting their franchise QB's "weapons" and a defense to help them be successful, and yet some people around here act like these weapons are only something that great QB's need. Tyrod isn't a true "franchise" QB, so don't worry about the state of his receiving corps or the defense. They're both irrelevant excuses. Please. We don't have to worry about Tyrod, barring his susceptibility to injury as a mobile quarterback. He's not elite, but he is good enough to win games. We need a defense first and foremost, and then we need a #1 pass catcher who can play a whole season. If you don't believe me, just look what our top-5 defense did with Kyle Orton at the helm. Pretty impressive. Look what Tyrod has done with a healthy Sammy. Also pretty impressive. Put those two together, add a healthy Shady, and BAM! Contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Is "Tyrod" the 2015 or 2016 "Tyrod"? I don't see a huge difference actually. I think he was very similar both years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) This is such a ridiculous question. Obviously if Tyrod started here as a rookie then you'd feel better about him because he'd still be very young and getting acclimated to the NFL. You could be much more optimistic about his development as a player and passer. The reality is that he's entering his 7th year in the league so it's not as simple as you want to make it seem. It's probably likely that he's reached his ceiling as a player or is pretty close to itSo your answer is no, then. You would no longer feel "bleh." Okay, now I'm going to ask you to do something I asked another poster to do because both of you share the same belief that what we've seen is what we've got simply because of age and number of years on an NFL roster. Throughout history, name me 10 QBs who going into year 7 in the NFL: -Rode the bench almost exclusively for the entirety of their rookie contract (4 years) -Given the opportunity to start in year five after earning the starting job -After earning the starting job, plays years 5 & 6 at "NFL starting QB" level That was the criteria I originally set forth. And I set it forward because of the arbitrary "sixth year" as some kind of watermark. My point was simply to establish how unique Taylor's case is. But if you can find me a number of QBs who meet that criteria, maybe you're on the right track, after all. Edited July 29, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 Exactly! I just want to add... throw with anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 He trended down. He very slightly trended down...there are starting qbs that swing a much wider margin. The truth is he has been fairly consistant. I don't see a huge difference actually. I think he was very similar both years. So do I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 11-3 after the two losses to the Pats. C'mon.............................................................................................. You are the chip B word at the weekly poker game? we are historic for looking different after our first pats game. but 11 wins before them as you said. thats a tall order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) Seriously? Draft a QB in the first no matter what?!?! Absolutely not! In a stacked QB class? Absolutely. At a minimum I would fully expect a 1st round rookie to be an upgrade to Yates/Peterman. Ideally, he's so good that he takes Tyrod's spot (easier said than done). This upcoming draft is also ideal because we still have Tyrod on contract through '18. What I don't want to see is us pass on these QBs, Tyrod plays his contract out, and then we are forced to draft a QB who's thrust into action immediately because we have nobody else. Edited July 29, 2017 by BuffaloHokie13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 If he continues to regress, we can go with this definition: verb verb: dissect; 3rd person present: dissects; past tense: dissected; past participle: dissected; gerund or present participle: dissecting methodically cut up (a body, part, or plant) in order to study its internal parts. synonyms: anatomize, cut up/open, dismember; vivisect "the body was dissected" lol geez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 That wasn't a "yes" or a "no." Ever heard of "sophomore slump?" It happens. Plus, 2015 will not be an easy year to match in terms of production and efficiency, anyway. sophomore slump for a 6th year vet??????? Unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 sophomore slump for a 6th year vet??????? Unlikely. So you believe that after 4 years of backup duty, 35 total attempted passes, under 3 different OC's in that same period, a QB has nothing left to learn and the league also knows everything they need to know about him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 (edited) In a stacked QB class? Absolutely. At a minimum I would fully expect a 1st round rookie to be an upgrade to Yates/Peterman. Ideally, he's so good that he takes Tyrod's spot (easier said than done). This upcoming draft is also ideal because we still have Tyrod on contract through '18. What I don't want to see is us pass on these QBs, Tyrod plays his contract out, and then we are forced to draft a QB who's thrust into action immediately because we have nobody else. No, you don't just draft a QB in the first "no matter what." I can't believe anyone actually thinks this is a smart or even reasonable approach sophomore slump for a 6th year vet??????? Unlikely. What Tyrod did in his 5th and 6th years after riding the pine for 4 years was the unlikely thing. Given that Taylor's already the exception rather than the rule we can throw any ridiculous rules like "NO WAY HE IMRPOVES IN YEAR 7!!!!" out the window Edited July 30, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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