Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) The problem is that it's a shifting picture. If other teams release Bills' UFA's before week 10, they might have to cut a lot more players than just Holmes. The players that the Bills have that count are Davis, Holmes, DiMarco, Hauschka and Ducasse. Ducasse isn't making the team. DiMarco isn't getting released. If they release 3 of those 5 they are looking at a 3rd. If they release 4 of those 5 they are looking at a 4th too. They can also get help, specifically from Blanton but possibly Hunter as well. https://overthecap.com/2018-compensatory-draft-picks-update-592017/ I'm not trying to make this into another comp pick thread but it is a part of the decision to go after Maclin. Edited June 4, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 The players that the Bills have that count are Davis, Holmes, DiMarco, Hauschka and Ducasse. Ducasse isn't making the team. DiMarco isn't getting released. If they release 3 of those 5 they are looking at a 3rd. If they release 4 of those 5 they are looking at a 4th too. They can also get help, specifically from Blanton but possibly Hunter as well. https://overthecap.com/2018-compensatory-draft-picks-update-592017/ I'm not trying to make this into another comp pick thread but it is a part of the decision to go after Maclin. Thanks for the link. I didn't realize (assuming I'm reading it correctly) that Manuel, Blanton, and Hunter didn't factor-into the comp equation (I wonder why not?) and I thought they signed more CFAs. So if the Bills currently have just Gilmore, Woods, and Brown as UFA's, I don't see them getting cut and now see that the Bills cutting 3 more UFA's will get them a 3rd rounder. But getting a comp pick is a small consideration. You add Maclin, just like you add UFA's, first and foremost to improve your team. I think that Ducasse and Davis are goners and Hauschka and DiMarco are locks, leaving Holmes as the only guy possible of getting the Bills that 3rd rounder (unless one of the three guys mentioned above prove to be worth something). If he's marginally productive, by all means, cut him before week 10. But one thing that article is forgetting is that there are factors beyond UFA lost-gained. Size of contract, performance, and accolades figure into it as well. Gilmore got $12M/year, which is more than all the Bills' UFA signees got combined ($9M total). Woods got $6.8M/year. And Brown got $2.3M for a year. That's $21.1M in average salary lost versus $9M gained. Then you figure Gilmore has the best chance he's ever had of finally making the Pro Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 The problem is that it's a shifting picture. If other teams release Bills' UFA's before week 10, they might have to cut a lot more players than just Holmes. The mid season release of qualifying players isn't common. That part I'll say is likely the board over thinking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Thanks for the link. I didn't realize (assuming I'm reading it correctly) that Manuel, Blanton, and Hunter didn't factor-into the comp equation (I wonder why not?) and I thought they signed more CFAs. So if the Bills currently have just Gilmore, Woods, and Brown as UFA's, I don't see them getting cut and now see that the Bills cutting 3 more UFA's will get them a 3rd rounder. But getting a comp pick is a small consideration. You add Maclin, just like you add UFA's, first and foremost to improve your team. I think that Ducasse and Davis are goners and Hauschka and DiMarco are locks, leaving Holmes as the only guy possible of getting the Bills that 3rd rounder (unless one of the three guys mentioned above prove to be worth something). If he's marginally productive, by all means, cut him before week 10. But one thing that article is forgetting is that there are factors beyond UFA lost-gained. Size of contract, performance, and accolades figure into it as well. Gilmore got $12M/year, which is more than all the Bills' UFA signees got combined ($9M total). Woods got $6.8M/year. And Brown got $2.3M for a year. That's $21.1M in average salary lost versus $9M gained. Then you figure Gilmore has the best chance he's ever had of finally making the Pro Bowl. I know the websites say that -- but do you have any examples where it didn't very obviously slot up based on average per year? These tend to be very predictable As for treating decisions like it's blindly signing a FA... why? Every move should be weighed in maximizing value based on total cost and total returns. So you count in the added pick with maclin but also pull out a vet signing due to the cap space used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 The mid season release of qualifying players isn't common. That part I'll say islikely the board over thinking it. Who cares if it's not common? If Holmes is looking like the best WR not named Watkins (Jones is a lock obviously), why release him before you have to/can get some production out of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 I know the websites say that -- but do you have any examples where it didn't very obviously slot up based on average per year? These tend to be very predictable As for treating decisions like it's blindly signing a FA... why? Every move should be weighed in maximizing value based on total cost and total returns. So you count in the added pick with maclin but also pull out a vet signing due to the cap space used I don't have any examples because how they determine comp picks is unknown and they never discuss how they decide on them. But the article linked talks about contract size, performance, and accolades as muddling things. And again, even if they sign Maclin, I'd keep Holmes and see what he can do for the team. His dead cap number if they release him is $2.4M. Again if he's not productive by week 10 or the team is out of the playoffs, cut him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 My bottom line....improve the team by all means possible that does not kill your cap and unecessarily mortgage your future. If Maclin can be had at a reasonable price.....you have Watkins, Z. Jones, Maclin as your front line receivers with plenty of speed and size guys for game situations like red zone. That would be a good problem to have.....if someone gets knicked up your offense does not stutter when you really need to win a game AND it gives you a chance to really evaluate your QB that you have to make a decision on after this year. I would do it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 My bottom line....improve the team by all means possible that does not kill your cap and unecessarily mortgage your future. If Maclin can be had at a reasonable price.....you have Watkins, Z. Jones, Maclin as your front line receivers with plenty of speed and size guys for game situations like red zone. That would be a good problem to have.....if someone gets knicked up your offense does not stutter when you really need to win a game AND it gives you a chance to really evaluate your QB that you have to make a decision on after this year. I would do it...... Same here. That would make the WR position one of strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 cap space; funny how the narrative has changed. Now they 15 million and can do what ever they want. Plus a ton of free space next year. When Whaley was here oh 6 weeks about the time was a salary cap mess and the cap was woefully mismanaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) Matthew Fairburn@MatthewFairburn LeSean McCoy said "don't be surprised" if Jeremy Maclin ends up with Buffalo Bills. McCoy's been recruiting him. Jay Skurski @JaySkurskiLeSean McCoy says "don't be surprised" if Jeremy Maclin signs with the #Bills but that "a lot needs to happen." He's recruiting him hard. Matthew Fairburn@MatthewFairburnTyrod Taylor said he's going to get Jeremy Maclin's phone number from LeSean McCoy and join the recruiting effort. Edited June 4, 2017 by Rubes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Matthew Fairburn @MatthewFairburn LeSean McCoy said "don't be surprised" if Jeremy Maclin ends up with Buffalo Bills. McCoy's been recruiting him. Jay Skurski @JaySkurski LeSean McCoy says "don't be surprised" if Jeremy Maclin signs with the #Bills but that "a lot needs to happen." He's recruiting him hard. Matthew Fairburn @MatthewFairburn Tyrod Taylor said he's going to get Jeremy Maclin's phone number from LeSean McCoy and join the recruiting effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Matthew Fairburn @MatthewFairburn LeSean McCoy said "don't be surprised" if Jeremy Maclin ends up with Buffalo Bills. McCoy's been recruiting him. Jay Skurski @JaySkurski LeSean McCoy says "don't be surprised" if Jeremy Maclin signs with the #Bills but that "a lot needs to happen." He's recruiting him hard. Matthew Fairburn @MatthewFairburn Tyrod Taylor said he's going to get Jeremy Maclin's phone number from LeSean McCoy and join the recruiting effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Get it done! Funny how in a matter of a week lb and wr go from a weakness to strength. Now just s safety and we're looking good Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 My bottom line....improve the team by all means possible that does not kill your cap and unecessarily mortgage your future. If Maclin can be had at a reasonable price.....you have Watkins, Z. Jones, Maclin as your front line receivers with plenty of speed and size guys for game situations like red zone. That would be a good problem to have.....if someone gets knicked up your offense does not stutter when you really need to win a game AND it gives you a chance to really evaluate your QB that you have to make a decision on after this year. I would do it...... ...so who goes to make room?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 ...so who goes to make room?......someone from the bottom of the roster. Udfa probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Get it done! Funny how in a matter of a week lb and wr go from a weakness to strength. Now just s safety and we're looking good Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk What a difference patience and discipline can make in a coaching philosophy. McD knows players will fall as the off season goes on. Chance favors the prepared mind. He will weed out the players from the pretenders. Separate those who want to be here as compared to those looking for a payday. Hodges/ Macklin/ Barnidge would be such a trifecta if he can pull it off. This approach is such a refreshing change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 What a difference patience and discipline can make in a coaching philosophy. McD knows players will fall as the off season goes on. Chance favors the prepared mind. He will weed out the players from the pretenders. Separate those who want to be here as compared to those looking for a payday. Hodges/ Macklin/ Barnidge would be such a trifecta if he can pull it off. This approach is such a refreshing change. My only problem with crediting the staff with patience and discipline is that they moved waaaaaaay too quickly to sign fringe NFL players like Ducasse and Holmes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 From Jordan Schultz on Twitter: "#Bills are in "preliminary talks" 2 sign Jeremy Maclin, per source. LeSean McCoy is recruiting the WR and the team wants him onboard as well" Wow this might actually happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 My only problem with crediting the staff with patience and discipline is that they moved waaaaaaay too quickly to sign fringe NFL players like Ducasse and Holmes.that was only the coaches in that case, to blame. I know McD was pulling the strings to some degree but I will wait to see what the new staff as a whole post- Whaley does with the roster. It's a very different group, so they may indeed have patience and discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Get him! This offense would be loaded with Watkins, Harvin Maclin, Clay, Shady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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