MMQB: why Kaepernick and RGIII not on NFL rosters

[racketmaster]

I was listening to Sirius on the way home about 2 days ago and they said they are hearing from GM's they are moving away from "Mobile" QB's. Move in the pocket some sure of course, get 5-10 yards if you need to fine. But they want guys who can stand in the pocket, read defenses and throw with anticipation.

 

For all the "they are hard to defend" BS only one has really went to a superbowl and that is Wilson. But He still knows how to read defenses and looks to throw first.

 

Taylor. Kaep, RGIII are running RB's who can throw. Sorry there is no getting around this. We need a true Quarterback

The problem with that is the college game is producing many more running qbs as in the past and there are very few traditional (mike glennon type) passers in college anymore.

 

There are many hybrid types but most of them are not efficient enough passers. I liked Prescott last year and he falls into this hybrid category. Long story sIhort, its hard to find pocket passers from the college ranks.

[row_33]

RG III would help Sammy out a lot. They could play Wheel Chair football together.

 

Each could have their own medical tent set up on the sidelines for a "miraculous" recovery that lasts about 3 plays.

[BADOLBILZ]

Unless its the Bills, who go to great lengths to accommodate Tyrod Taylors similar pocket-passing woes, no offense will be a natural fit for Kaepernick or Griffin

 

 

....and that's why 8-8 is the ceiling

 

 

Kaepernick went to a SB and nearly won it........he was also one play from winning another NFC Championship.......... and even RGIII lead the Redskins to the playoffs.

 

I find it hard to believe that some of you don't understand the definition of "ceiling".............but the "woe is me/swooning, back of hand on forehead" look is a bad one for grown men.

Edited March 22, 2017 by #BADOL

[transplantbillsfan]

 

 

Huh?

I'll take your "Huh?" and raise you one

[BADOLBILZ]

Kaep had some success in the same scheme that Tyrod has. It is designed to hide the weaknesses of a Quarterback, especially one who is indecisive in the pocket and doesn't see the field well. I think if he added the muscle back and got back in his Superbowl shape Kaep could still be at least a decent backup. Question is whether he is willing to.

 

RGIII is different. He is a 1 read quarterback who sometimes struggles to even make the read. I always remember in his 2nd year a piece Kurt Warner did on him that showed Washington were still scheming to make it as easy as possible on him he just wasn't reading the one guy he needed to read. Didn't understand what he was seeing. I think that yes the injury hurt and yes rushing him back didn't help but in reality I think the mental transition proved too much for RGIII. Once he was asked to do more from the shoulders up he failed.

 

 

The article makes some good points........it's also important to remember that there probably isn't a team as QB-desperate in the NFL now as that team that Rex took over in Buffalo.

 

It was a perfect environment for Taylor to get his shot and the only teams with similarly bad QB depth charts now are teams that are in tank-mode and don't really WANT to adjust their offense to get better QB play.........so Kaep and RGIII are naturally finding fit issues.

 

One issue I have with the article is lumping Taylor in with Kaep and RGIII after saying that those guys don't make big plays.............that's the furthest thing from the truth with Taylor who has lead the top big play offense in the NFL the last two seasons.

 

Taylor has special accuracy with the deep ball............Kaep and RGIII do not have a matching strength as a passer.......which is why Taylor was going to be a starting QB in the NFL somewhere next year.

[without a drought]

Neither guy is likely to make an impact in the league this year but the reason they aren't on rosters right now has to do with that it's still March.

[Big Gun]

 

 

The article makes some good points........it's also important to remember that there probably isn't a team as QB-desperate in the NFL now as that team that Rex took over in Buffalo.

 

It was a perfect environment for Taylor to get his shot and the only teams with similarly bad QB depth charts now are teams that are in tank-mode and don't really WANT to adjust their offense to get better QB play.........so Kaep and RGIII are naturally finding fit issues.

 

One issue I have with the article is lumping Taylor in with Kaep and RGIII after saying that those guys don't make big plays.............that's the furthest thing from the truth with Taylor who has lead the top big play offense in the NFL the last two seasons.

 

Taylor has special accuracy with the deep ball............Kaep and RGIII do not have a matching strength as a passer.......which is why Taylor was going to be a starting QB in the NFL somewhere next year.

Nobody really wanted him this year, maybe Browns? was that confirmed? It's why he's back in Buffalo at an enormous price reduction. I think TT has a worse year this year than last, new HC, new OC, way tougher schedule, I can't imagine the rush game being as good, it was epic last year. For me there are a lot of things going against him this year, and if he isn't as good what market will there be for him? Not much IMO.

[Real McClappy]

 

Taylor is better than RGIII and better than this broken down version of Kaep. But he isn't the answer, my view on that is well known.

 

The question was about the future of those 2 players. I only mentioned Tyrod because there are some similarities with the way he has had some success (however limited) and the success Kaep had in the same offense.

 

Technically speaking both QB's have had more success in the league than TT.

Nobody knows how either would do with the Bills O-Line and McCoy in the backfield.

Either way we are placing TT on a pedestal to RG3 and Kap? It truly tells you how big a issue we still have at QB. But, many Bills fans and posters here think he will turn magically into Steve Young this year.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Real McCoy

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The problem with that is the college game is producing many more running qbs as in the past and there are very few traditional (mike glennon type) passers in college anymore.

 

There are many hybrid types but most of them are not efficient enough passers. I liked Prescott last year and he falls into this hybrid category. Long story sIhort, its hard to find pocket passers from the college ranks.

Which is why we should have sucked for luck

[wiskibreth]

I'd say there are parallels to their play style, but to me Taylor is more of a passing QB than these other two. While Kaep and Griffin struggle to get past the first read, start watching the pressure and quickly bail and run. I find that Taylor scrambles and continues to look for targets down field and is an opportunistic runner. While he might still struggle reading the whole field from the pocket, he's still trying to throw the ball.

 

Some people like to rail on "4 years a back-up and 2 years starting! He is what he is!" I disagree. I think pocket awareness and reading the field can get better with live action experience and Taylor strikes me as a guy who recognizes his weaknesses and will work hard to improve in those areas. Most QBs in the league can do it in practice, a live game is entirely different and some players acclimate slower than others. We don't know who he is yet, but I hope he gets there soon.

[moshermw]

I'd say there are parallels to their play style, but to me Taylor is more of a passing QB than these other two. While Kaep and Griffin struggle to get past the first read, start watching the pressure and quickly bail and run. I find that Taylor scrambles and continues to look for targets down field and is an opportunistic runner. While he might still struggle reading the whole field from the pocket, he's still trying to throw the ball.

 

Some people like to rail on "4 years a back-up and 2 years starting! He is what he is!" I disagree. I think pocket awareness and reading the field can get better with live action experience and Taylor strikes me as a guy who recognizes his weaknesses and will work hard to improve in those areas. Most QBs in the league can do it in practice, a live game is entirely different and some players acclimate slower than others. We don't know who he is yet, but I hope he gets there soon.

Well said. Would also add - and was surprised nobody in this thread touched on it - that both RGIII and Kaep have displayed dooshy behavior - RGIII overinflating his play in Washington and being a locker room cancer, and Kaep letting himself get out of shape and the whole National Anthem thing.

 

Players and even fans who question his play dig Tyrod as the man - team first type guy, dedicated, gym rat, leader, simply lacks overall dooshiness.

[racketmaster]

Which is why we should have sucked for luck

Remember we did suck the year before as we were 4-12 and drafted 3rd. Luck decided to stay in school another year and Newton rose up to #1 leaving us Dareus (who is now a weight on our salary cap). Next year Fitz started out hot and faded quickly but his hot start got us to 6-10. Of course Indy tanked without Manning going 1-15.

 

In order to beat out Indy that year we would have had to strip everything down to go 0-16. Once you tank like that in football, it will probably take a few years to build up a roster with enough talent to compete. Even though a QB is super important, football is still not like basketball because there are only 5 guys on the court. Tanking in basketball makes more sense because 1 player can carry a team. Football there are 45 active players each week and even a great QB needs talent around them to succeed. Luck had some success his first 2 years but the team had aging talent that has not been replaced.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I disagree that teams "figured out" RG3, his knee injury has sapped his mobility and ruined his mechanics. He looks slow and doesn't have the same zip that he used to have. He also doesn't have the pocket presence needed to function without his mobility.

 

Kaep still has a cannon, and the speed, but is woefully inaccurate. He'll make some plays with his legs, and help out your ground game with read option.. but it's very hard to trust him to throw accurate passes - especially deep. For this reason, he's figured out because you can just stack the box against him and dare him to throw a deep ball.

Edited March 22, 2017 by dneveu

[TheFunPolice]

I think with RGIII it's mental, and as a fan of the league I'm bummed to see his career implode. I want to see exciting young star QBs. WHERE ARE THEY?! Nobody seems up to it. Matt Ryan just wasted one of the all-time great seasons. Everyone keeps saying Aaron Rogers is amazing but the guy doesn't do squat in terms of post-season winning.

 

Some guys just fold it up when the world is against them (RGIII). Others get even more determined to shove it down the world's throats and gloat over everyone's broken hopes and dreams (Brady).

 

RGIII was very accurate and his mobility was part of his game, but not all. Now everything is just off, which (IMO) just goes to show that so much of the QB position is mental toughness.

 

Once the going got tough he seems to have shut it down.

Edited March 22, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[Punching Bag]

Excellent article , shows how good the Bill's OL is coping with Taylor's style of play, but throws timing out the window for receivers.

 

SJ13 would be a natural if healthy for Taylor.

 

No absolutely wrong - he needs a "heady" QB who can figure how what SJ sees when he adjusts his route and TT is opposite - a QB for who WRs need to adjust routes.

[CanadianFan]

Kaep had some success in the same scheme that Tyrod has. It is designed to hide the weaknesses of a Quarterback, especially one who is indecisive in the pocket and doesn't see the field well. I think if he added the muscle back and got back in his Superbowl shape Kaep could still be at least a decent backup. Question is whether he is willing to.

 

RGIII is different. He is a 1 read quarterback who sometimes struggles to even make the read. I always remember in his 2nd year a piece Kurt Warner did on him that showed Washington were still scheming to make it as easy as possible on him he just wasn't reading the one guy he needed to read. Didn't understand what he was seeing. I think that yes the injury hurt and yes rushing him back didn't help but in reality I think the mental transition proved too much for RGIII. Once he was asked to do more from the shoulders up he failed.

It is a good article

I posted this in another thread that Kaep would make an ideal backup to TT this year if the $$$ is reasonable

Not as assured about RG3 but I also wouldn't rule it out

 

jc

 

I'm coming round to the idea.

He wouldn't make an ideal backup for the Bills. A rookie is the only ideal backup for a team that doesn't have a franchise QB.

I think Bills need a project (Cardale), a rook with potential, and a vet to backup TT. There are always ways to keep bench players on practice squad.

[boyst]

There are only two decent backup vets out there that would work for us. Kaepernick might be the best not that bunch. You can't have a running an backed up by a pocket passer. It would cause far too much trouble on the OL and scheme. You need a backup QB to be a runner and athletic to make up for decencies in quality, unless you have a pocket passer ASA starter and a pocket passer as backup.

 

Kaep for $3mm or less on an incentive based and behavioral basedndeal andnim all for it. We have had too much drama in Buffalo for a few years with rex

[YoloinOhio]

@albertbreer

Carolina and Seattle are two offenses that have elements that would suit Kap. Buffalo too, considering Denver looked at him last year.

[boyst]

@albertbreer

Carolina and Seattle are two offenses that have elements that would suit Kap. Buffalo too, considering Denver looked at him last year.

had not thought about carolina as an option, derek anderson... let me look... is still there. he would be competing with Joe Webb as the third QB.

i've often figured the panthers keep 3 qb's due to newton's frequency of running and probability that he gets banged up. it is obvious at some point he is going to be injured and they'll need a backup to come in and someone to back him up. derek anderson is a good backup, maybe one of the best in the league. joe webb isn't terrible to have on your roster. derek anderson makes smart decisions, limits stupid decisions and can close a game out. i think he could survive a competition with anderson as a backup. it owuld be webb who would compete with him. and if webb was cut i have always been curious about him and wouldn't mind him in buffalo.

 

and charlotte would welcome kaepernick very well. its a strange, terrible city.

 

and of course, the obligatory...

 

they're better off keeping anderson and webb becaus cam newton is terrible and will show it. newton will be benched for webb and anderson, who are far superior than he is.

[prissythecat]

had not thought about carolina as an option, derek anderson... let me look... is still there. he would be competing with Joe Webb as the third QB.

i've often figured the panthers keep 3 qb's due to newton's frequency of running and probability that he gets banged up. it is obvious at some point he is going to be injured and they'll need a backup to come in and someone to back him up. derek anderson is a good backup, maybe one of the best in the league. joe webb isn't terrible to have on your roster. derek anderson makes smart decisions, limits stupid decisions and can close a game out. i think he could survive a competition with anderson as a backup. it owuld be webb who would compete with him. and if webb was cut i have always been curious about him and wouldn't mind him in buffalo.

 

and charlotte would welcome kaepernick very well. its a strange, terrible city.

 

and of course, the obligatory...

 

they're better off keeping anderson and webb becaus cam newton is terrible and will show it. newton will be benched for webb and anderson, who are far superior than he is.

 

 

Hmm. EJ is the best backup in the NFL right ? ;-)