Sources: Chasm between Bills coaches, front office on Tyrod

[Bill_with_it]

 

The word "overblown," though, is just one more media report. While I do think JW is much more credible than his media brethren, I have to wonder how much he actually knows.

 

I think there's an effective gag order in place on the shakers and movers at OBD until they make a final decision. I don't think JW or any other media guy has substantive inside information. In other words, I'm dubious about any of the reports of a 'chasm' developing on the TT issue between the FO and the coaching staff. In fact, my guess is that this whole poopstorm about a division between the FO and coaching staff is a media fabrication.

 

That's not to say I believe everyone on the Bills payroll is in agreement. Why would they be? Fans and NFL commentators don't agree so I don't expect the folks at OBD agrees about Tyrod either. I just think there's a very good chance the McD versus DW story is a media invention. Given my experience, I just don't trust the media very much.

If it is a lie the Bills should be able to hold them accountable for slander, libel, or defamation...They could revoke there press credentials. I believe there is something going on.

[TSOL]

Why hasnt the Bills FO done or said anything about him? Its strange. He cant be feeling all warm and fuzzy about coming back here at this point. Shod be interesting to see this play out in the next 5-6 days.

[SwaggatronMcCoy]

Can Tyrod workout with McDermott yet or is there some sort of NFL practice rule preventing that?

[Scott7975]

 

 

In Watkins hands high and behind him, if i remember correctly.

 

Irregardlessly, maybe he can make some progress in his 7th season in the league.

 

It was a little bit. Not blaming Watkins for the drop but it was a catchable ball by most receivers. Well defended though.

 

A man for details eh ?

Well done !

 

I try and I am not always right in my opinion, but I try to get the right details/facts.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

Really? Failed miserably? 3 straight 11-5 records, 3 playoff runs, a conference championship appearance.

 

Grigson definitely sucked at drafting, but the team won.

Team wins are not a key GM stat for me. W-L should mainly be on the HC.

[Scott7975]

Too many folks are saying TT is the best FA QB option.

How can the Bills let him walk?

They shouldn't, but Whaley doesn't like him. I expect it's more to do with the cap space situation that Whaley put the Bills in more than Tyrod. IMO Whaley shouldn't have a job right now. His drafts are mediocre at best and he put the team against the cap only to go on to an 8-8 season with a fairly weak schedule.

So why would you pay a guy if a 4th round rookie can be better than him out of the gate? How do we know a Watson or another qb couldn't do what TT does at a much lower cost?

No one knows that. The right thing to do would be to keep Tyrod AND draft someone they think might be the guy. I'm not talking about another project that may be ok in 12 years like Jones.

 

Dallas didn't release Romo then draft Dak. There were over 200 QBs drafted since 2000. How many of those haven't failed completely to be someone's franchise QB? That is the odds you are facing when drafting a rookie.

 

I prefer to keep Tyrod and draft some guy hoping he might be the answer. If he isn't the answer then at least we can remain pretty competitive.

[BADOLBILZ]

Your last sentence is the crux, isn't it? And that's been my point all along; how much more does TT give you, realistically? And with the current supporting cast in place? What about in terms of your schemes? Greg Cosell was spot on when he said committing to TT means certain limitations in your passing game given the weaknesses we've seen for two seasons. How does that jive with Dennison's expectations? We all understand that coaches need to conform to their player's strengths and that's true at times but that can also be another way of saying we need to avoid what he can't do as well. QBs that can't routinely threaten defenses in all areas of the field are simply too easy to defend. Is that worth a few extra wins that might get you to .500? Not an unreasonable question imo.

 

 

The whole "he's not capable of being more than a .500 QB" thing is where people's takes go cold.

 

It's an utterly "made-up" opinion.

 

With the top 10 defense they were supposed to field would the Bills have won a lot more games the past two seasons?

 

It took a bottom third of the league defense and terrible WR corps in year 2 to drag the Bills down to .500 with Taylor as QB.

 

And even THAT lowly of a defense was propped up some by a Taylor-lead offense that simply did not turn the ball over.

 

The reality is that we don't know what Taylor can accomplish yet........worse QB's than Tyrod have won SB's........including an awful 1:2 interception ratio Peyton Manning just two years ago.

 

I'm all for finding a better QB.......nobody on this board values the QB position more than I........but let's be honest here.......the past two seasons is the best quarterbacking in back-to-back years that the Bills have had in two decades........it's not like even approaching Taylor's level of play/impact in the near future is by any means a given.

 

I don't think Cosell was spot-on at all. Taylor is a trained under-center QB and returning to a familiar system with better passing game design that will allow him to do what he did for 8 years at Va Tech and Baltimore and should yield better passing results.

[Reed83HOF]

 

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 2h2 hours ago

Colleague @nikbonaddio from @numberFire sent these workout comps for the QBs from this weekend@s combine.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6L0suKWYAQ6wAA.jpg:large

[Strethor]

 

 

Adam Schefter‏Verified account @AdamSchefter 2h2 hours ago

Colleague @nikbonaddio from @numberFire sent these workout comps for the QBs from this weekend@s combine.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6L0suKWYAQ6wAA.jpg:large

 

Can anyone figure out what the heck this means? Is it just some way for saying their all gonna suck? lol

[Marty McFly]

The whole "he's not capable of being more than a .500 QB" thing is where people's takes go cold.

 

It's an utterly "made-up" opinion.

 

With the top 10 defense they were supposed to field would the Bills have won a lot more games the past two seasons?

 

It took a bottom third of the league defense and terrible WR corps in year 2 to drag the Bills down to .500 with Taylor as QB.

 

And even THAT lowly of a defense was propped up some by a Taylor-lead offense that simply did not turn the ball over.

 

The reality is that we don't know what Taylor can accomplish yet........worse QB's than Tyrod have won SB's........including an awful 1:2 interception ratio Peyton Manning just two years ago.

 

I'm all for finding a better QB.......nobody on this board values the QB position more than I........but let's be honest here.......the past two seasons is the best quarterbacking in back-to-back years that the Bills have had in two decades........it's not like even approaching Taylor's level of play/impact in the near future is by any means a given.

 

I don't think Cosell was spot-on at all. Taylor is a trained under-center QB and returning to a familiar system with better passing game design that will allow him to do what he did for 8 years at Va Tech and Baltimore and should yield better passing results.

 

I can agree with that. I bet he improves next season. Bills fans are so starved for a QB they crucify anyone who doesnt win a passing title and carry a bad team to the playoffs.

[Maury Ballstein]

.but let's be honest here.......the past two seasons is the best quarterbacking in back-to-back years that the Bills have had in two decades........it's not like even approaching Taylor's level of play/impact in the near future is by any means a given.

 

.

Fatneck Shirley is the hottest babe on the Eastern Shore.

[JohnC]

 

 

The whole "he's not capable of being more than a .500 QB" thing is where people's takes go cold.

 

It's an utterly "made-up" opinion.

 

With the top 10 defense they were supposed to field would the Bills have won a lot more games the past two seasons?

 

It took a bottom third of the league defense and terrible WR corps in year 2 to drag the Bills down to .500 with Taylor as QB.

 

And even THAT lowly of a defense was propped up some by a Taylor-lead offense that simply did not turn the ball over.

 

The reality is that we don't know what Taylor can accomplish yet........worse QB's than Tyrod have won SB's........including an awful 1:2 interception ratio Peyton Manning just two years ago.

 

I'm all for finding a better QB.......nobody on this board values the QB position more than I........but let's be honest here.......the past two seasons is the best quarterbacking in back-to-back years that the Bills have had in two decades........it's not like even approaching Taylor's level of play/impact in the near future is by any means a given.

 

I don't think Cosell was spot-on at all. Taylor is a trained under-center QB and returning to a familiar system with better passing game design that will allow him to do what he did for 8 years at Va Tech and Baltimore and should yield better passing results.

TT is probably the best qb that we have had here in two decades. That is a testament to how ridiculously inept this organization is. What does being the best qb that we have had in a generation mean? What it doesn't automatically mean is that he is a qb that can get you anywhere meaningful. Many people criticize the coaching that he has been subjected to as if that is the cause of his limitations. It isn't. His limitations are what the coaches have to contend with and adjust the offense to.

 

Whaley is fairly criticized for a lot of things. But he isn't dumb enough to want to move on from a qb who can bring his historically mediocre team any degree of success. The new coaching staff by now certainly has reviewed the tape on TT. What you don't hear from them is how indispensable he is and how they want to design the offense around his stunted game. They are holding out for better options not because they are impressed by him but they are holding out because they are desperately searching the tight market for a better option.

 

I don't give a dam if the Bills retain TT or not. It means little. What I want is this pathetic organization to get a good qb prospect on the roster sooner rather than later. The Bills have not had a credible qb for two decades. The Bills have not been in the playoffs for a generation in a system designed for parity. The two situations are inextricably linked. Enough is enough.

[K-9]

 

 

The whole "he's not capable of being more than a .500 QB" thing is where people's takes go cold.

 

It's an utterly "made-up" opinion.

 

With the top 10 defense they were supposed to field would the Bills have won a lot more games the past two seasons?

 

It took a bottom third of the league defense and terrible WR corps in year 2 to drag the Bills down to .500 with Taylor as QB.

 

And even THAT lowly of a defense was propped up some by a Taylor-lead offense that simply did not turn the ball over.

 

The reality is that we don't know what Taylor can accomplish yet........worse QB's than Tyrod have won SB's........including an awful 1:2 interception ratio Peyton Manning just two years ago.

 

I'm all for finding a better QB.......nobody on this board values the QB position more than I........but let's be honest here.......the past two seasons is the best quarterbacking in back-to-back years that the Bills have had in two decades........it's not like even approaching Taylor's level of play/impact in the near future is by any means a given.

 

I don't think Cosell was spot-on at all. Taylor is a trained under-center QB and returning to a familiar system with better passing game design that will allow him to do what he did for 8 years at Va Tech and Baltimore and should yield better passing results.

Except it's not made up, it's exactly what he's been.

 

I understand the various contexts his record needs to be analyzed in as well.

 

I'd like to believe that Dennison looked at everything and is convinced TT can be his guy l and that he just needs to get back to that system he's trained in. In a perfect world, he is. And if that's the case, if Dennison and McD think he can be that guy, then he will be. It's their decision.

 

In the meantime, I don't dismiss the various arguments for cutting him out of hand, either, if they don't think he's their guy. There are pros and cons that have been discussed ad infinitum.

 

As for Cosell, that may have been the only time I've agreed with him on any QB. TT is limited, whether or not that's because of the system he was in doesn't matter; it's what he's put on tape. Hopefully he proves me wrong about that assessment.

[JM2009]

Team wins are not a key GM stat for me. W-L should mainly be on the HC.

The W-L is on the GM's watch.

[dave mcbride]

Except it's not made up, it's exactly what he's been.

 

I understand the various contexts his record needs to be analyzed in as well.

 

I'd like to believe that Dennison looked at everything and is convinced TT can be his guy l and that he just needs to get back to that system he's trained in. In a perfect world, he is. And if that's the case, if Dennison and McD think he can be that guy, then he will be. It's their decision.

 

In the meantime, I don't dismiss the various arguments for cutting him out of hand, either, if they don't think he's their guy. There are pros and cons that have been discussed ad infinitum.

 

As for Cosell, that may have been the only time I've agreed with him on any QB. TT is limited, whether or not that's because of the system he was in doesn't matter; it's what he's put on tape. Hopefully he proves me wrong about that assessment.

 

I like your posts, but saying that an individual player is a ".500 player" is a sign to me that a person likes simplistic explanations (because they're easy) and isn't sharp (or brave?) enough to dive deeper. I know you are not like this, but a lot of people are, and frankly it drives me freaking nuts.

 

Drew Brees has been 7-9 or 8-8 three years in a row, but assigning him a win-loss record is the height of idiocy. In every one of these seasons he has been without question one of the five best qbs in the league.

Edited March 6, 2017 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

TT is probably the best qb that we have had here in two decades. That is a testament to how ridiculously inept this organization is. What does being the best qb that we have had in a generation mean? What it doesn't automatically mean is that he is a qb that can get you anywhere meaningful. Many people criticize the coaching that he has been subjected to as if that is the cause of his limitations. It isn't. His limitations are what the coaches have to contend with and adjust the offense to.

 

Whaley is fairly criticized for a lot of things. But he isn't dumb enough to want to move on from a qb who can bring his historically mediocre team any degree of success. The new coaching staff by now certainly has reviewed the tape on TT. What you don't hear from them is how indispensable he is and how they want to design the offense around his stunted game. They are holding out for better options not because they are impressed by him but they are holding out because they are desperately searching the tight market for a better option.

 

I don't give a dam if the Bills retain TT or not. It means little. What I want is this pathetic organization to get a good qb prospect on the roster sooner rather than later. The Bills have not had a credible qb for two decades. The Bills have not been in the playoffs for a generation in a system designed for parity. The two situations are inextricably linked. Enough is enough.

 

1) That's just made-up talk.

 

2) He has proven to be dumb enough to make a lot of mistakes.

 

3) The smart guy you mentioned above felt EJ had "IT".

 

I get the frustration.........I've been advocating the Bills picking a QB with their first round pick EVERY year as a strategy and have pointed out time and again the fact that they haven't even drafted a QB with their originally slotted first pick in round 1 of any draft since their inaugural season.

 

Quite literally NEVER been all-in on a QB prospect.......which is inexcusable.

 

But cutting your productive QB because you think the GM is too dumb to take a shot on a young QB otherwise is not a strategy. If it's that bad, the GM needs to be the one to go.

 

Tyrod is a productive QB and I favor introducing young QB's into established, successful systems rather than burning it down and making them carry your franchise out of the basement.

[Augie]

Except it's not made up, it's exactly what he's been.

 

I understand the various contexts his record needs to be analyzed in as well.

 

I'd like to believe that Dennison looked at everything and is convinced TT can be his guy l and that he just needs to get back to that system he's trained in. In a perfect world, he is. And if that's the case, if Dennison and McD think he can be that guy, then he will be. It's their decision.

 

In the meantime, I don't dismiss the various arguments for cutting him out of hand, either, if they don't think he's their guy. There are pros and cons that have been discussed ad infinitum.

 

As for Cosell, that may have been the only time I've agreed with him on any QB. TT is limited, whether or not that's because of the system he was in doesn't matter; it's what he's put on tape. Hopefully he proves me wrong about that assessment.

 

So Tyrod is to blame when the offense scores points, but the D can't get off the field on 3rd down? Or Carpenter boinks the goal post? The team plays .500 ball. Yes, he failed to see or hit open receivers, but he's not the reason we missed the playoffs this year. Is he top 5-10? No. Can we win with him, obviously. QB is the most important position in all of sports, so I can't see letting the best one we've had in decades go until we know we have something better on the roster.

 

I wish this argument would die already....and soon we can go on to other things. Soon we will know our direction.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Augie

[dave mcbride]

1) That's just made-up talk.

 

2) He has proven to be dumb enough to make a lot of mistakes.

 

3) The smart guy you mentioned above felt EJ had "IT".

 

I get the frustration.........I've been advocating the Bills picking a QB with their first round pick EVERY year as a strategy and have pointed out time and again the fact that they haven't even drafted a QB with their originally slotted first pick in round 1 of any draft since their inaugural season.

 

Quite literally NEVER been all-in on a QB prospect.......which is inexcusable.

 

But cutting your productive QB because you think the GM is too dumb to take a shot on a young QB otherwise is not a strategy. If it's that bad, the GM needs to be the one to go.

 

Tyrod is a productive QB and I favor introducing young QB's into established, successful systems rather than burning it down and making them carry your franchise out of the basement.

+1.

[San-O]

Is it bigger than the chasm over the middle when Taylor's managing football games ?

 

+ 1

 

Pretty funny...

[K-9]

So Tyrod is to blame when the offense scores points, but the D can't get off the field on 3rd down? Or Carpenter boinks the goal post? The team plays .500 ball. Yes, he failed to see or hit open receivers, but he's not the reason we missed the playoffs this year. Is he top 5-10? No. Can we win with him, obviously. QB is the most important position in all of sports, so I can't see letting the best one we've had in decades go until we know we have something better on the roster.

 

I wish this argument would die already....and soon we can go on to other things. Soon we will know our direction.

Like I said, I understand all the various contexts TT's record needs to be evaluated in. He is certainly not the sole reason for our failures. Not by a long shot.

 

That is not my point and never has been.

 

And I also don't want to rehash this stupid argument, either.