Gilly Lock in Boca? Wine and Dine with Pegs?

[Kirby Jackson]

Fair enough. But probably not good enough.

Yeah, if a deal is going to get done I think that they will have to tag him first. He wants to hit the market.

[Magox]

That, and he's bloody good.

 

I will never understand why folks want really good players to leave.

 

It's not a black or white issue. The question is what sort of money does he want? Does he want top 3 money, if so then from my point of view I'd rather have him walk. If he's asking for somewhere between top 5 to top 10 pay, then I think that would be more appropriate.

[Augie]

Yeah, if a deal is going to get done I think that they will have to tag him first. He wants to hit the market.

Given the expected D, I bet they give him a "fair" offer, and let him walk. I hope not, despite the fact that he's a grown man and still struggles with the concept of consistent tackling.

[YoloinOhio]

 

It's not a black or white issue. The question is what sort of money does he want? Does he want top 3 money, if so then from my point of view I'd rather have him walk. If he's asking for somewhere between top 5 to top 10 pay, then I think that would be more appropriate.

14 mill/yr

http://www.wgr550.com/pages/23009186.php?contentType=4&contentId=19057744

[Maury Ballstein]

14 mill/yrhttp://www.wgr550.com/pages/23009186.php?contentType=4&contentId=19057744

If he promises to not get pantsed by Decker and Marshall give counter at 12.

[Sig1Hunter]

How loud was the porn from his iPhone?

I guess I'm the only one that laughed my ass off at this? Hate it when you think the Bluetooth is connected, but it isn't.

[ALF]

Salaries of other CBs

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/cornerback/

[thebandit27]

 

It's not a black or white issue. The question is what sort of money does he want? Does he want top 3 money, if so then from my point of view I'd rather have him walk. If he's asking for somewhere between top 5 to top 10 pay, then I think that would be more appropriate.

Oh I get that, and I don't necessarily disagree.

 

I meant that I don't understand the "that guy sucks he's gotta go!!!111!!1!!!" mentality when it comes to the team's best players

[GunnerBill]

That, and he's bloody good.

 

I will never understand why folks want really good players to leave.

 

Because a lot of people don't think he is good because they ignore the evidence infront of them.

[Bill from NYC]

I will never understand why folks want really good players to leave.

I want players who can win us some football games. Gilmore, whether or not he is "good," has lost us as many games as he has won us.

 

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we find a corner in round 2 or 3 that is better than Gilmore. After all, Janoris Jenkins was the 7th pick in round 2 the day we wasted a #10 on Gilmore.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Bill from NYC

[GoBills808]

I want players who can win us some football games. Gilmore, whether or not he is "good," has lost us as many games as he has won us.

 

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we find a corner in round 2 or 3 that is better than Gilmore. After all, Janoris Jenkins was the 7th pick in round 2 the day we wasted a #10 on Gilmore.

Corners don't really win or lose games IMO... outside the QB and coaching staff there isn't one position you can attribute that level of responsibility to. They simply improve or weaken the defense by virtue of their play, and Gilmore is the best one we have.

 

I would be very surprised to find a better corner in this year's draft, in any round, that would come in and replace his production day one.

[Maury Ballstein]

Corners definetly lose games. The Panthers had to can a guy after Julio torched him for 300 yards.

[thebandit27]

I want players who can win us some football games. Gilmore, whether or not he is "good," has lost us as many games as he has won us.

 

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we find a corner in round 2 or 3 that is better than Gilmore. After all, Janoris Jenkins was the 7th pick in round 2 the day we wasted a #10 on Gilmore.

 

I hope you're doing well, Bill.

 

IMO, you undermine your points when you say that the 10th overall pick is 'wasted" on a guy that's easily a top-15 corner (but more likely at least top-10 given that his target/reception,/TD/passer rating allowed/INT/PD/tackle numbers fall right in line with the Shermans, Normans, & Petersons of the league). That's a well-spent pick.

 

Is it possible to find a better player later in the draft? Sure. That doesn't mean it's likely.

 

As to corners winning games, I don't remember a single game that's ever been won by a corner. If you don't believe that corner is a premium position, that's fine, but it can't boil down to the player in that case. Suffice to say I would disagree on that point--dial up the 2014 Packers-Bills game if you want to see a game that Gilmore practically took over.

 

But that's the sticking point when evaluating corners--people literally only notice when they give up a play. Right now, you're blasting a guy that allowed 2 TDs the entire 2016 season--which many folks still (misguidedly) consider a bad year for him. Meanwhile, compare his numbers to Richard Sherman for 2016...Gilmore allowed fewer TDs, had more interceptions, 3 fewer tackles, and allowed a 67.7 passer rating compared to Sherman's 63.0.

 

I'm in favor of keeping him if it can happen at less than $14M AAV, but I think that's unlikely, so I think he'll go. My point is that I believe folks that see him as easily-replaceable are in for a very, very rude awakening.

[Mr. WEO]

14 mill/yr

http://www.wgr550.com/pages/23009186.php?contentType=4&contentId=19057744

 

Outside of the franchise tag, no way they are coming close to 14 a year. They only offered 10.5 last summer.

[YoloinOhio]

 

I hope you're doing well, Bill.

 

IMO, you undermine your points when you say that the 10th overall pick is 'wasted" on a guy that's easily a top-15 corner (but more likely at least top-10 given that his target/reception,/TD/passer rating allowed/INT/PD/tackle numbers fall right in line with the Shermans, Normans, & Petersons of the league). That's a well-spent pick.

 

Is it possible to find a better player later in the draft? Sure. That doesn't mean it's likely.

 

As to corners winning games, I don't remember a single game that's ever been won by a corner. If you don't believe that corner is a premium position, that's fine, but it can't boil down to the player in that case. Suffice to say I would disagree on that point--dial up the 2014 Packers-Bills game if you want to see a game that Gilmore practically took over.

 

But that's the sticking point when evaluating corners--people literally only notice when they give up a play. Right now, you're blasting a guy that allowed 2 TDs the entire 2016 season--which many folks still (misguidedly) consider a bad year for him. Meanwhile, compare his numbers to Richard Sherman for 2016...Gilmore allowed fewer TDs, had more interceptions, 3 fewer tackles, and allowed a 67.7 passer rating compared to Sherman's 63.0.

 

I'm in favor of keeping him if it can happen at less than $14M AAV, but I think that's unlikely, so I think he'll go. My point is that I believe folks that see him as easily-replaceable are in for a very, very rude awakening.

agreed but I think rather than going elsewhere this year they will make him a very strong offer albeit not exactly what he wants, and if he declines, tell him that they want him on the team and will tag him and continue to negotiate. They know he doesn't want to be tagged, he said that himself. So maybe he takes the security of the big contract even though it's not technically the 14 mill/yr "top 5 corner money" rather than play on the tag for a year. Or, he bets on himself and plays on the tag and then they tackle it again next year similar to what KC did with Eric berry. Jmo Edited February 8, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[NorthBuffaloKid]

Getting lucky with a 6th round pick?

Brady?

[davspo]

Paying him more than $12 mil a year is crazy. Let someone else pay for him. In case you didn't watch the playoffs, it's a quarterbacks league. There are not many sites that rank him in even the top 30 free agents, some below 50. He played not to get hurt last year, which to me is a sign of how he is going to be after he gets the big pay day. $12 mil is more than he should get, if he don't want it, I'm fine with saying goodbye.

[dave mcbride]

 

I hope you're doing well, Bill.

 

IMO, you undermine your points when you say that the 10th overall pick is 'wasted" on a guy that's easily a top-15 corner (but more likely at least top-10 given that his target/reception,/TD/passer rating allowed/INT/PD/tackle numbers fall right in line with the Shermans, Normans, & Petersons of the league). That's a well-spent pick.

 

Is it possible to find a better player later in the draft? Sure. That doesn't mean it's likely.

 

As to corners winning games, I don't remember a single game that's ever been won by a corner. If you don't believe that corner is a premium position, that's fine, but it can't boil down to the player in that case. Suffice to say I would disagree on that point--dial up the 2014 Packers-Bills game if you want to see a game that Gilmore practically took over.

 

But that's the sticking point when evaluating corners--people literally only notice when they give up a play. Right now, you're blasting a guy that allowed 2 TDs the entire 2016 season--which many folks still (misguidedly) consider a bad year for him. Meanwhile, compare his numbers to Richard Sherman for 2016...Gilmore allowed fewer TDs, had more interceptions, 3 fewer tackles, and allowed a 67.7 passer rating compared to Sherman's 63.0.

 

I'm in favor of keeping him if it can happen at less than $14M AAV, but I think that's unlikely, so I think he'll go. My point is that I believe folks that see him as easily-replaceable are in for a very, very rude awakening.

Great post!

[folz]

The thing with Stephon is that he is a very good cover corner, but this past year, he did seem to shy away from tackles and not always give his full effort. Maybe some will put that on the coaches/scheme, a lot of players seemed unhappy with the system, etc. Some might put it on the fact that he was going to be a free agent and was avoiding injury. Whatever it was, a guy who doesn't seem to be giving full effort makes me nervous. What happens once he gets paid? Will he feel valued and ball out? Or will the lack of effort continue cause he got his? Again, he is a very good player, but not great or elite until he consistently gives it all he has.

 

The Bills offered 10.5 million/yr at the start of the season, which would have put him at 8th highest paid corner with a guy like Byron Maxwell. Steph appears to want around 14 million/yr, which would be in the top 4 paid CBs with the likes of Josh Norman, Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, and Darelle Revis. These guys are all great cover corners (despite Revis' decline...he was paid for how he has played in the past, not this year), but they are all also physical players who always give effort. I just don't see Stephon in that class yet.

 

I mean, is he worth 5 million/yr more than an Aqib Talib (who also made the pro bowl) or Robert Alford? Is he worth twice as much money as a Rodgers-Cromartie?

 

For comparison, the other pro bowl CBs not named Peterson or Sherman were paid the following in 2016:

 

Janoris Jenkins 12.5 million

Aqib Talib 9.5 million

Chris Harris 8.5 million

Casey Hayward 5.1 million (rookie contract)

Marcus Peters 2.4 million (rookie contract)

Xavier Rhodes 1.9 million (rookie contract)

 

I'm just not sure he is worth top 4 money and if his "Show me the Money" sneakers are any indication, I don't think he's going to settle for less.

If that's the case I think you let him walk. I could see the Bills up their offer of 10.5 to maybe around 12 if the new staff really wants him. That

would put him around 7th highest paid CB. There were only 9 corners in the league who even made 10+ million in 2016. 11-12 million/yr is not

a slap in the face by any means. It seems to be right around where his value should be set. imo

Edited February 8, 2017 by folz

[YoloinOhio]

Sam Shields was just cut by GB. He's had some off-field issues but has been a good corner. Anyone know offhand if he'd be a decent fit for McD scheme?