TPS Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 3 hours ago, GG said: Yup, high end of the corporate bond market - Microsoft, Intel, McD, Berkshire, etc. Sure, who wants junk now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, TPS said: Sure, who wants junk now? Lots of people. Different incentive for investors to buy quality bonds vs chasing yield in junk bonds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 36 minutes ago, GG said: Lots of people. Different incentive for investors to buy quality bonds vs chasing yield in junk bonds. Negative yields on T-bills, dumping risky junk, shouldn't be a surprise that the high end is "hot"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 33 minutes ago, TPS said: Negative yields on T-bills, dumping risky junk, shouldn't be a surprise that the high end is "hot"... Completely different investment bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 4 hours ago, RochesterRob said: For guys like you it is all about the long run. Just keep an eye on it for now and realize it may take a considerable amount of time to get it back. Depends on how old you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, GG said: Completely different investment bases. In normal times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 Just now, TPS said: In normal times... At all times. A bank or CLO will not dump high yield bank debt to buy Apple. Same with high yield mutual funds. Everyone is just riding out the storm, because it’s stupid to sell your high yield holdings at a discount now. Many buyout shops are more than happy to buy the debt at a discount for any willing sellers. There haven’t been huge outflows from high yield yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Just now, GG said: At all times. A bank or CLO will not dump high yield bank debt to buy Apple. Same with high yield mutual funds. Everyone is just riding out the storm, because it’s stupid to sell your high yield holdings at a discount now. Many buyout shops are more than happy to buy the debt at a discount for any willing sellers. There haven’t been huge outflows from high yield yet. I suppose they can always buy cds too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, bbb said: Depends on how old you are Age is important. Remaining value relative to life expenses and other forms of income are important. There is also the risk that the market could keep declining which I have mentioned before. If we could all predict the market accurately then we would all be wealthy but that is often a distance away from reality. The bottom line is he needs to pick a point where he would need to exit the market to maintain his current life style and watch for it. If the DOW falls off of a cliff in the span of a week then we are all screwed. Like if it went from where it closed today down to 5,000 in several trading sessions. Hard to imagine even today but not entirely impossible if the market keeps seeing bad news on COVID19. For the time being I would hate to advise somebody in his position to panic sell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, TPS said: I suppose they can always buy cds too Do you propose a better form of credit insurance in the market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 minute ago, RochesterRob said: Age is important. Remaining value relative to life expenses and other forms of income are important. There is also the risk that the market could keep declining which I have mentioned before. If we could all predict the market accurately then we would all be wealthy but that is often a distance away from reality. The bottom line is he needs to pick a point where he would need to exit the market to maintain his current life style and watch for it. If the DOW falls off of a cliff in the span of a week then we are all screwed. Like if it went from where it closed today down to 5,000 in several trading sessions. Hard to imagine even today but not entirely impossible if the market keeps seeing bad news on COVID19. For the time being I would hate to advise somebody in his position to panic sell. I didn't get the impression he was selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, GG said: Do you propose a better form of credit insurance in the market? it was a serious statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: If we could all predict the market accurately then we would all be wealth. We can all predict the market accurately. And 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 9 hours ago, Chef Jim said: We can all predict the market accurately. And Who back in February was predicting the DOW to go below 20,000 as it did just a few days ago? Corona virus was known for anybody that cared to analyze its impact on the world. A year ago "experts" were proclaiming we were well on the way to 50,000. If somebody was truly all knowing then it seems that they could see the impact of one variable namely a pandemic. Before it all gets done we will see just how much the experts in fact do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 27 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: Who back in February was predicting the DOW to go below 20,000 as it did just a few days ago? Corona virus was known for anybody that cared to analyze its impact on the world. A year ago "experts" were proclaiming we were well on the way to 50,000. If somebody was truly all knowing then it seems that they could see the impact of one variable namely a pandemic. Before it all gets done we will see just how much the experts in fact do not know. You should only be in the market long term. Over the long term the market only goes up. Timing the market is usually a fool’s errand. You have to be right twice. When to get out and when to get back in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 20 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: You should only be in the market long term. Over the long term the market only goes up. Timing the market is usually a fool’s errand. You have to be right twice. When to get out and when to get back in. I agree with most of what you say. As far as timing the market goes you have people on this board doing that (not me) as far as guessing over the last week when to get back in. Did they all get out at 28,000? Doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 I'm just buying my Vanguard Mutual Funds the same as always. I don't own any bonds at this point in my life but will start buying them about two years before I retire so I have a nice cushion to cash in if when I am retired in case something like this happens. I'd hate to have to sell stock at depressed prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Hey, it's just the market system man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 https://twitter.com/Ir0nbelly/status/1243635945045479426 a Bloomberg opinion. an interesting one at that. The Fed's Cure Risks Being Worse Than the Disease 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Foxx said: https://twitter.com/Ir0nbelly/status/1243635945045479426 a Bloomberg opinion. an interesting one at that. The Fed's Cure Risks Being Worse Than the Disease Trump, formalizing MMT. But, where will we get the money.....? Mnuchin and Blackrock, the financial death panel... Edited March 28, 2020 by TPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 28 minutes ago, TPS said: Trump, formalizing MMT. But, where will we get the money.....? Mnuchin and Blackrock, the financial death panel... where will we get the money? seriously? where did we get QEInfinity? keystrokes my friend... keystrokes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 hours ago, TPS said: Trump, formalizing MMT. But, where will we get the money.....? Mnuchin and Blackrock, the financial death panel... I said over a year and a half ago that the Fed was going to be restructured and defanged -- we're seeing it now. No one is really reporting on it, which is odd considering the apparent enormity of the shift. Good times ahead. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I said over a year and a half ago that the Fed was going to be restructured and defanged -- we're seeing it now. No one is really reporting on it, which is odd considering the apparent enormity of the shift. Good times ahead. or... the collapse of the USD. and if it collapses, in my opinion, we will then see a bifurcated dollar. it's worth on the world stage and it's worth within our borders. as an aside, in the original bill that was initially rejected, it contained language describing, which unmistakably described a crypto USD. Edited March 28, 2020 by Foxx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Foxx said: where will we get the money? seriously? where did we get QEInfinity? keystrokes my friend... keystrokes It was sarcasm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Canadian Drillers Face Nightmare Scenario As Oil Crashes To $5 The U.S. shale patch laments oil prices in the low $20s crippling companies with already weakened debt and liquidity profiles. But further north, the outlook for Canada’s oil patch is even gloomier. Hit by the pandemic-driven demand shock and the price war-induced supply shock, Canadian oil prices have already crashed to below US$10 a barrel. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Canadian-Drillers-Face-Nightmare-Scenario-As-Oil-Crashes-To-5.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, ALF said: Canadian Drillers Face Nightmare Scenario As Oil Crashes To $5 The U.S. shale patch laments oil prices in the low $20s crippling companies with already weakened debt and liquidity profiles. But further north, the outlook for Canada’s oil patch is even gloomier. Hit by the pandemic-driven demand shock and the price war-induced supply shock, Canadian oil prices have already crashed to below US$10 a barrel. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Canadian-Drillers-Face-Nightmare-Scenario-As-Oil-Crashes-To-5.html The same will be true of solar, whose viability relies solely on expensive oil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 1 hour ago, ALF said: Canadian Drillers Face Nightmare Scenario As Oil Crashes To $5 The U.S. shale patch laments oil prices in the low $20s crippling companies with already weakened debt and liquidity profiles. But further north, the outlook for Canada’s oil patch is even gloomier. Hit by the pandemic-driven demand shock and the price war-induced supply shock, Canadian oil prices have already crashed to below US$10 a barrel. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Canadian-Drillers-Face-Nightmare-Scenario-As-Oil-Crashes-To-5.html Why is gas over $3 per gallon still here in CA. Hey pretty boy Gavin. We never got the results of your investigations in to the high gas prices. What did you find out? We didn’t forget. He said he would investigate last April. And then again in October and not one ***** person (other than me as far as I know) has called him out on it. When he announced this in October no one said “Wait! What happened to your investigation in the spring? ? https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-21/gavin-newsom-california-high-gas-prices-should-be-investigated?_amp=true https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2019/04/24/gavin-newsom-high-gas-prices-explanation/amp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Why is gas over $3 per gallon still here in CA. Hey pretty boy Gavin. We never got the results of your investigations in to the high gas prices. What did you find out? We didn’t forget. He said he would investigate last April. And then again in October and not one ***** person (other than me as far as I know) has called him out on it. When he announced this in October no one said “Wait! What happened to your investigation in the spring? ? https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-21/gavin-newsom-california-high-gas-prices-should-be-investigated?_amp=true https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2019/04/24/gavin-newsom-high-gas-prices-explanation/amp/ https://www.gasbuddy.com/Station/106892 $1.20 a gallon. A blast from the past: https://www.redstate.com/diary/williamjameson/2011/01/20/obamas-energy-sec-wants-7-to-9-unleaded-gas-prices/ Chu said he favors gradually ramping up gasoline taxes over 15 years to nudge consumers into buying cars that are more fuel efficient and homes which are closer to work. Chu spoke with The Wall Street Journal in September but the newspaper did not publish the gas tax comments until last seek, shortly after the Nobel-prize winning physicist had been identified as Obama’s nominee for Energy secretary. The president-elect acknowledges that gas prices have come down since the summer when they reached $4 per gallon. He worries, however, that the overall economic downturn makes American families ill-equipped to shoulder higher prices. “I can imagine in the hearings Chu facing problems because he dares say, ‘higher prices,’” said Schipper. “But I think there is no solution that does not involve higher prices.” Schipper, who shared a lab at Berkeley with Chu from 1972-74, estimates that the average cost of gasoline in Europe at present is somewhere between $7-9 per gallon. Edited March 29, 2020 by 3rdnlng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: https://www.gasbuddy.com/Station/106892 $1.20 a gallon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: what the hell does a loaf of bread cost? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Prices like that are nothing less than criminal. Here in North Carolina: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Just now, Foxx said: what the hell does a loaf of bread cost? Because of the cost the largest is a 1/2 loaf. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 33 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Why is gas over $3 per gallon still here in CA. Hey pretty boy Gavin. We never got the results of your investigations in to the high gas prices. What did you find out? We didn’t forget. He said he would investigate last April. And then again in October and not one ***** person (other than me as far as I know) has called him out on it. When he announced this in October no one said “Wait! What happened to your investigation in the spring? ? https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-21/gavin-newsom-california-high-gas-prices-should-be-investigated?_amp=true https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2019/04/24/gavin-newsom-high-gas-prices-explanation/amp/ How much of your 3 dollars is government tax? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: How much of your 3 dollars is government tax? Combine the tax with CA regulations regarding formulation, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: How much of your 3 dollars is government tax? $4.27 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 30 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Here in the hot zone we pay 2.05. across the river in PA, they pay 2.55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: How much of your 3 dollars is government tax? About $.80 in state and federal taxes and fees per gallon. And this is one good thing about the virus. I don't drive nearly as much and the few times I've gone to the office there is no traffic so my mileage has been great so I'm spending a lot less on gas. Edited March 29, 2020 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: About $.80 in state and federal taxes and fees per gallon. Given the loons you have running state government out there don't be surprised if CA tries to take more in gas tax in a move redistribute money in the CA economy. 9 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Here in the hot zone we pay 2.05. across the river in PA, they pay 2.55. South of Rochester, NY it is 2.05-2.30 per gallon for 87 grade. Last I knew state and federal tax was around a quarter but that could have certainly changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 1 minute ago, RochesterRob said: Given the loons you have running state government out there don't be surprised if CA tries to take more in gas tax in a move redistribute money in the CA economy. Been there, done that. https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-california-gas-tax-increase-road-repairs-20190620-story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Been there, done that. https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-california-gas-tax-increase-road-repairs-20190620-story.html Yes, but what is to stop them from going to 1.00 dollar or more per gallon? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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