How does this ship get turned around organizationally?

[ndirish1978]

It seems like there are a lot of opinions on this board about who we should blame for the past 17 years of failure in Buffalo: Russ Brandon, Nix/Whaley, terrible coaching selections, etc. My question is this, how does this all get turned around in your opinion beyond just a sweeping "fire everybody?" Is there something beyond just playing musical chairs at coach that we can do to change the team around? I just scratch my head because it seems institutional now. I kept thinking Wilson's age and lack of involvement with the team was the driving factor behind our futility but we've switched owners and it feels like the same song, different verse. Feel free to merge this thread to whichever complaints thread you want if the question seems redundant, but I would like to hear what you guys think can be done this offseason to give this team some spine and start moving us in the right direction. Thanks all.

[26CornerBlitz]

Find the right QB.

[Nanker]

^^^^

This

[ndirish1978]

I dunno that it's just that simple. We have a defensive coach with a bad defense, a GM who can't read a trade value chart and a team that just rolls over when things get bad. I think we need more than just a good QB.

[PO16FFS]

Break Both Brady's legs and his throwing arm and we are in the thick of things for the division

[Fan in San Diego]

If I was Pegula I would hire an outside consultant to review the organization and make suggestions of what to change.

[26CornerBlitz]

I dunno that it's just that simple. We have a defensive coach with a bad defense, a GM who can't read a trade value chart and a team that just rolls over when things get bad. I think we need more than just a good QB.

 

Bad defense? Dumb GM? A quitter team? Find the right QB and suddenly everyone plays lot better, becomes smarter, and has much more courage.

If I was Pegula I would hire an outside consultant to review the organization and make suggestions of what to change.

 

Ah yes! The czar idea lives again! I say to hell with that. You either believe in the GM you have and if you don't then get one you have confidence in then let him do his job.

Edited December 8, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz

[bobobonators]

Can we at least wait until the season is over before we figure out what we need to turn around? We're 6-6, not 3-9.

We have more negative threads on here than in the Jets forum.

[Beef Jerky]

Need to fire everyone from Russ on down and start over completely.

[Mr. WEO]

 

Bad defense? Dumb GM? A quitter team? Find the right QB and suddenly everyone plays lot better, becomes smarter, and much more courage.

 

Ah yes! The czar idea lives again! I say to hell with that. You either believe in the GM you have and if you don't then get one you have confidence in then let him do his job.

 

 

Honest question....late in the 3rd Q of Sunday's game, with a 3 score lead--did you think the D would give up 4 TDs? Is that a good, smart D, playing with courage?

[26CornerBlitz]

Need to fire everyone from Russ on down and start over completely.

 

Close you eyes and count......

 

 

Honest question....late in the 3rd Q of Sunday's game, with a 3 score lead--did you think the D would give up 4 TDs? Is that a good, smart D, playing with courage?

 

I knew that the game wasn't over and said so in the GDT. Oakland has a potent offense and they comeback on teams.

[H2o]

Find the right QB.

This

[Mr. WEO]

 

Close you eyes and count......

 

I knew that the game wasn't over and said so in the GDT. Oakland has a potent offense and they comeback on teams.

 

29 points?

[Nihilarian]

It all starts at the very top of the org in that this team is in desperate need of a team president of football operations. Someone that has enough NFL football acumen to know who to hire as GM, as HC, as trainers and a decent doctor

 

This new owner is more than rich enough to hire the very best NFL advisers / headhunters to advise him as to who to hire as team president of football operations. Then the owner should stand back and let the man fix this franchise!

 

 

Even if this team traded for one of the elite franchise QB's it isn't going to change the ineptitude of the GM not bringing in equal or better players when the team loses a player.

 

Example, It took three years to replace LG Andy Levitre and even then it was because the new HC vouched for a previously suspended player. Rex Ryan also chased OG La'el Collins who now plays for the Cowboys and that would be a huge upgrade for the line. Another example is losing WR Chris Hogan to the Patriots who already had a very solid receiving corps. Speaking of the Patriots they also traded for star TE Martellus Bennett from the Bears. Plus they drafted a WR in the 4th round who is starting to make an impact.

 

Obtaining an elite franchise QB isn't going to fix the defense or find scouts that can actually properly evaluate college, NFL talent to find those quality draft picks and FA players. A new QB isn't going to fix the injury problems or the team doctors giving the okay to draft injured players.

[May Day 10]

It seems like there are a lot of opinions on this board about who we should blame for the past 17 years of failure in Buffalo: Russ Brandon, Nix/Whaley, terrible coaching selections, etc. My question is this, how does this all get turned around in your opinion beyond just a sweeping "fire everybody?" Is there something beyond just playing musical chairs at coach that we can do to change the team around? I just scratch my head because it seems institutional now. I kept thinking Wilson's age and lack of involvement with the team was the driving factor behind our futility but we've switched owners and it feels like the same song, different verse. Feel free to merge this thread to whichever complaints thread you want if the question seems redundant, but I would like to hear what you guys think can be done this offseason to give this team some spine and start moving us in the right direction. Thanks all.

 

Nothing will change this offseason.

 

 

Hopefully, if/when Pegula does decide that this thing has run its course, he hires the right someone someone from outside the organization, with no ties or allegiances, to build the football program from the top down.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

29 points?

 

The collapse was painful, but after watching the Raiders light teams up this season it wasn't a complete shock that they scored so many more points.

[yungmack]

Are you sure the problem is the organization? Could it be that the problem is much narrower than that, i.e., an incompetent HC? If it's the latter, then why would you clean house top to bottom?

[May Day 10]

Are you sure the problem is the organization? Could it be that the problem is much narrower than that, i.e., an incompetent HC? If it's the latter, then why would you clean house top to bottom?

 

the same 'organization' gave a no stone unturned search that brought the Marrone administration with a golden parachute, as well as the current 'incompetent' HC.

 

I do not trust them to suddenly get it right. They also stink at finding QBs

[C.Biscuit97]

Find the right QB.

I mean it's funny how hard some folks act like it is. We cry over draft picks from 8 years ago. NE has a ton of terrible draft picks and no one cares. We have a far, far better roster than the Colts and they have had success for one reason.

 

When you get the qb, everyone gets better. And you don't find a qb by spending 3 1st round picks on in 30 years.

[ndirish1978]

I mean it's funny how hard some folks act like it is. We cry over draft picks from 8 years ago. NE has a ton of terrible draft picks and no one cares. We have a far, far better roster than the Colts and they have had success for one reason.

 

When you get the qb, everyone gets better. And you don't find a qb by spending 3 1st round picks on in 30 years.

 

But we can trade 2 1s for a WR who is rarely on the field. I don't understand why we don't just trade the farm for a good 1st rd Qb and actually give ourselves a chance.

[bobobonators]

I mean it's funny how hard some folks act like it is. We cry over draft picks from 8 years ago. NE has a ton of terrible draft picks and no one cares. We have a far, far better roster than the Colts and they have had success for one reason.

 

When you get the qb, everyone gets better. And you don't find a qb by spending 3 1st round picks on in 30 years.

 

Even after last week's loss and the Colt's win against the Jets, Tyrod has a better winning % than Luck since 2015. The colts have gotten progressively worse since the 2014 season, in the vaunted AFC South.

 

If it was all about the QB, the super bowl would have the GOAT Brees playing in it every single season.

Saints can't even make the playoffs for 3 years.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

But we can trade 2 1s for a WR who is rarely on the field. I don't understand why we don't just trade the farm for a good 1st rd Qb and actually give ourselves a chance.

The problem is the Bills never stay consistent with a plan. We can argue all day whether EJ ever had a chance to be good but Watkins was drafted to help him. They benched him at 2-2 for a journeyman scrub. Derek Carr had a similar start to his career and was allowed to play through it. The Bills did the same thing with Losman. Odds are those guys just weren't good enough but the jerking back and forth the Bills did with them did them no favors.

 

But in the big picture, you shouldn't give up 2 firsts for anything besides a qb. I still think Sammy can be an elite wr but he still isn't enough of a game changer to give up 2 1sts for. No non-qb is.

[May Day 10]

I mean it's funny how hard some folks act like it is. We cry over draft picks from 8 years ago. NE has a ton of terrible draft picks and no one cares. We have a far, far better roster than the Colts and they have had success for one reason.

 

When you get the qb, everyone gets better. And you don't find a qb by spending 3 1st round picks on in 30 years.

 

I always think of Arizona too. Havent 'hit' on a QB, but have made a pretty decent run the past 8 years or so with the likes of Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer.

 

And you look at and envy Philadelphia for how seriously, proactively, and aggressively they pursue their franchise QB.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

Even after last week's loss and the Colt's win against the Jets, Tyrod has a better winning % than Luck since 2015. The colts have gotten progressively worse since the 2014 season, in the vaunted AFC South.

 

If it was all about the QB, the super bowl would have the GOAT Brees playing in it every single season.

 

Saints can't even make the playoffs for 3 years.

That just shows how dumb qb winning % is. Put Luck or Brees on the Bills, they are SB contenders. Put Taylor on those teams, they are terrible.

 

I always think of Arizona too. Havent 'hit' on a QB, but have made a pretty decent run the past 8 years or so with the likes of Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer.

 

And you look at and envy Philadelphia for how seriously, proactively, and aggressively they pursue their franchise QB.

Good points. The only thing different with Arizona this year and last year is Palmer suddenly got really old. Completely changes their trajectory.

[BringBackOrton]

 

Even after last week's loss and the Colt's win against the Jets, Tyrod has a better winning % than Luck since 2015. The colts have gotten progressively worse since the 2014 season, in the vaunted AFC South.

 

If it was all about the QB, the super bowl would have the GOAT Brees playing in it every single season.

Saints can't even make the playoffs for 3 years.

Why don't we look at their record since Luck's been playing.

Edited December 7, 2016 by jmc12290

[bobobonators]

Why don't we look at their record since Luck's been playing.

Simple, b/c TT wasn't starting before 2015.

[yungmack]

 

Even after last week's loss and the Colt's win against the Jets, Tyrod has a better winning % than Luck since 2015. The colts have gotten progressively worse since the 2014 season, in the vaunted AFC South.

 

If it was all about the QB, the super bowl would have the GOAT Brees playing in it every single season.

Saints can't even make the playoffs for 3 years.

It isn't all about the QB but that's the Number One priority. After that, a QB needs a strong running game, a good to great line and receivers. And a coaching staff that knows what it's doing and builds around the QBs strengths. Without those other elements, you wind up with David Carr, Andrew Luck (and maybe Carson Wentz), good to great talent wasted because the rest of the formula isn't there. With those other elements, a low draft pick such as a Dak Prescott, a Derek Carr and, yes, a Tom Brady can step in and flourish. I wonder if we'd ever have heard about Brady if he'd wound up on a perennial loser.

[BringBackOrton]

Simple, b/c TT wasn't starting before 2015.

He was in the NFL.

[bobobonators]

It isn't all about the QB but that's the Number One priority. After that, a QB needs a strong running game, a good to great line and receivers. And a coaching staff that knows what it's doing and builds around the QBs strengths. Without those other elements, you wind up with David Carr, Andrew Luck (and maybe Carson Wentz), good to great talent wasted because the rest of the formula isn't there. With those other elements, a low draft pick such as a Dak Prescott, a Derek Carr and, yes, a Tom Brady can step in and flourish. I wonder if we'd ever have heard about Brady if he'd wound up on a perennial loser.

 

I 100% agree with everything you said. My point being, it's not that simple to find a winning strategy. A great QB is obviously the goal of any franchise. However, plenty of franchises still manage to win games and make it to the playoffs with average QB play.

[ndirish1978]

We need to get better on the boundaries on both sides of the ball, I don't have an issue with our lines.

[bobobonators]

He was in the NFL.

JMC, lets not circle jerk e/o please.

[Luxy312]

IMO, the problem isn't institutional yet. If every organization bailed after the first two years of average records for coaches, what would have happened with Seattle under Pete Carroll and his two 7-9 seasons? I think that despite the fact that we're running on 17 years without the playoffs that THAT frustration can't be pinned on a guy who's been a starting QB for just two years or a coach that just took over and is finishing his second year. The deficiencies on this team are pretty obvious when our best players get hurt. Having as many WR's hurt this year as they have is a big deal. Would this team have done better with Watkins in the lineup every week. What about Dareus on defense? We'll never know of course what "could have been" because they were along with many others. At times, Taylor has been absolutely electric. At other times, he's been a dumpster fire. More than anything for me, the play calling when the team needs to advance the ball down the field and scoring is lacking. I'm not going to blame Taylor for two runs followed by a screen pass for a 3 and out, when that's what they're telling him to do. Offensively and defensively, I believe this team is better than it was last year. They probably need one more consistent playmaker on offense and maybe some additional help at safety. Losing Aaron Williams was also huge in that regard, as Ryan defenses are predicated on strong man cover players. Losing Watkins, then his backup (Woods) and then the backup to the backup (Goodwin) didn't help offensively.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

I 100% agree with everything you said. My point being, it's not that simple to find a winning strategy. A great QB is obviously the goal of any franchise. However, plenty of franchises still manage to win games and make it to the playoffs with average QB play.

Not consistency unless there are extreme outliners. Denver has one of the best defenses in the NFL but even decrypt Manning was respected enough. Alex Smith is a flawed guy but was good enough to be a #1 pick.

 

Basically, for guys like TT, you need an almost perfect time around them. And if that is true, why pay them a lot of money?

[bobobonators]

IMO, the problem isn't institutional yet. If every organization bailed after the first two years of average records for coaches, what would have happened with Seattle under Pete Carroll and his two 7-9 seasons? I think that despite the fact that we're running on 17 years without the playoffs that THAT frustration can't be pinned on a guy who's been a starting QB for just two years or a coach that just took over and is finishing his second year. The deficiencies on this team are pretty obvious when our best players get hurt. Having as many WR's hurt this year as they have is a big deal. Would this team have done better with Watkins in the lineup every week. What about Dareus on defense? We'll never know of course what "could have been" because they were along with many others. At times, Taylor has been absolutely electric. At other times, he's been a dumpster fire. More than anything for me, the play calling when the team needs to advance the ball down the field and scoring is lacking. I'm not going to blame Taylor for two runs followed by a screen pass for a 3 and out, when that's what they're telling him to do. Offensively and defensively, I believe this team is better than it was last year. They probably need one more consistent playmaker on offense and maybe some additional help at safety. Losing Aaron Williams was also huge in that regard, as Ryan defenses are predicated on strong man cover players. Losing Watkins, then his backup (Woods) and then the backup to the backup (Goodwin) didn't help offensively.

 

Overall, I 100% agree with everything you said.

 

Above all, I think we should actually let the season play out, before commenting on "turning things around".

[May Day 10]

Invent a time machine, and make sure Russ Brandon turns over the stone with Andy Reid under it, and not Doug Marrone

[ndirish1978]

More than just bad QB play I'm more concerned with the fact that we HAD good young players last year who are now regressing rather than developing. I don't think it's disputed the fact that Gilmore and Darby were WAY better last year than this year, IMO same thing with Preston Brown. That's coaching.

 

Unfortunately the FO hasn't shown that they actually know how to hire a decent HC, so we could fire Rex and very likely end up with someone even worse.

[Punching Bag]

It seems like there are a lot of opinions on this board about who we should blame for the past 17 years of failure in Buffalo: Russ Brandon, Nix/Whaley, terrible coaching selections, etc. My question is this, how does this all get turned around in your opinion beyond just a sweeping "fire everybody?" Is there something beyond just playing musical chairs at coach that we can do to change the team around? I just scratch my head because it seems institutional now. I kept thinking Wilson's age and lack of involvement with the team was the driving factor behind our futility but we've switched owners and it feels like the same song, different verse. Feel free to merge this thread to whichever complaints thread you want if the question seems redundant, but I would like to hear what you guys think can be done this offseason to give this team some spine and start moving us in the right direction. Thanks all.

 

It gets fixed by team being sold with guarantee that Buffalo gets a team in future; this enables the staff filled with the Lerois, Yeezuses, etc to lose jobs and when new team is staffed it is filled top down with staff understanding that leaks for office politics will be treated as fired with cause events.

[dave mcbride]

That just shows how dumb qb winning % is. Put Luck or Brees on the Bills, they are SB contenders. Put Taylor on those teams, they are terrible.

 

Good points. The only thing different with Arizona this year and last year is Palmer suddenly got really old. Completely changes their trajectory.

Agree 100 percent with this.

[White Linen]

Find the right QB.

 

It's the only correct answer

[vorpma]

If I was Pegula I would hire an outside consultant to review the organization and make suggestions of what to change.

Exactly; this organization has a losing culture and has for 15 years. Follow the psychological concept of organizational culture; clean house completely and start again.