What the !@#$ has David Lee done in his career??

[BringBackFergy]

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/coaches/lee_david/49968f10-6ab2-488d-abc0-852291512e71?qwr=fullsite_temporary

 

This could be the **** show of all NFL coaching resumes. Helped Fitz to a 24 TD season (no mention of INT's). Then to NYJ to coach Geno Smith who "started all 16 games" (yeah, that's the only fluff they could muster). Before that, coached Chad Pennington and Chad Henne.

 

Sign me up. This guy is a keeper.

[snafu]

He's a Parasite.

[Beef Jerky]

You angry he made money being a QB whisperer and you didn't think of that awesome bull **** job?

 

I know I am...

[BringBackFergy]

You angry he made money being a QB whisperer and you didn't think of that awesome bull **** job?

 

I know I am...

Yes...yes I am.

[MAJBobby]

His QBs include

 

Quincy Carter -Dal

Vinny Testerverde - Dal

Drew Bledsoe - Dal

Tony Romo - Dal

Chad Henne- MIA

Chad Pennington - MIA

Sanchez - NYJ

Smith -NYJ

Matt Simms - NYJ

Fitz

Manuel

 

Etc no real elite QB development going on there

[Bangarang]

He can hang his hat on how Romo turned out. That's.....really about it. I don't trust anyone on this staff to develop a QB.

[MAJBobby]

He can hang his hat on how Romo turned out. That's.....really about it. I don't trust anyone on this staff to develop a QB.

That would be a stretch to me as well. But will give him Romo

 

Rest i see no QB that a "QB whisperer" can point too

[BringBackFergy]

Didn't we get rid of him for a reason? So Rex picked him up, watched him work his magic with Geno (gulp) and "stole" him for Buffalo?? Wth?

[The Frankish Reich]

He can hang his hat on how Romo turned out. That's.....really about it. I don't trust anyone on this staff to develop a QB.

Chad Pennington managed to win games with one of the worst arms (post-shoulder trouble) I've seen in the modern NFL. But I'll admit it, that's not exactly high praise if it's the second item on your resume, and besides, Pennington was awfully smart all by himself, kind of the homeless man's Peyton Manning.

[MAJBobby]

Chad Pennington managed to win games with one of the worst arms (post-shoulder trouble) I've seen in the modern NFL. But I'll admit it, that's not exactly high praise if it's the second item on your resume, and besides, Pennington was awfully smart all by himself, kind of the homeless man's Peyton Manning.

Agree did he really "develop" and already seasoned Vet in Pennington?

[The Frankish Reich]

Agree did he really "develop" and already seasoned Vet in Pennington?

More likely Pennington taught him a thing or two. How on earth Pennington went 11-5 with that arm his first year in Miami is kind of amazing to ponder.

[Dr.Sack]

Weird, I wonder if he can get Tyrod out of his slump.

[BringBackFergy]

Weird, I wonder if he can get Tyrod out of his slump.

Asking David Lee to help Tyrod out of his slump is kinda like watching an elephant do a jigsaw puzzle. (Not sure what that means but neither does David Lee.)

[DC Tom]

They hired an anticoach.

[MAJBobby]

Pennington was actually very good until his shoulder issues and eventually his throws were hard to watch.

He was and David Lee had nothing to do with that

[BringBackFergy]

He was and David Lee had nothing to do with that

But yet, guys like Frank Reich make good QB coaches and then move up the ladder (with other teams). We just bring in old retreads with no pattern of success.

[KD in CA]

Might as well jump.

[Mr. WEO]

He has been described in another thread as an "experienced play caller".....

[GunnerBill]

I thought he made a mess of Fitz the first time he was here. Fitzpatrick doesn't play Quarterback conventionally because he is not conventional. He doesn't have what most Quarterbacks have so giving him the textbook technical pointers and telling him to move his feet like this and rotate his body like that was never going to help him. All of a sudden we ended up with a Fitzpatrick who was even less accurate because he was too busy trying to throw like David Lee wanted him to throw.

 

Fitz is a guy who you just have to say "this is what he is and this is how he plays" and then put pieces around him to help..... you know.... kind of like the Jets have. Meddling with his "technique" is never going to improve him.

[fridge]

Yeah, I wasn't excited about a lot of Rex's staff hires, ANthony Lynn included. It seems like he talks about these guys like they're all great and it's like...Rex, come on buddy, you're poaching them from your awful Jets team.

 

I remember reading about David Lee a bunch in his first time around and getting excited. When you really break it down, he's been apart of really no QB development or teams of note. I guess you could say Romo, but is Romo that great? How many playoff wins does he have? He strikes me as an unorthodox styled QB anyways. He makes stuff happen on broken plays and has good instincts, so I'm not sure what gets attributed to David Lee there.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/coaches/lee_david/49968f10-6ab2-488d-abc0-852291512e71?qwr=fullsite_temporary

 

This could be the **** show of all NFL coaching resumes. Helped Fitz to a 24 TD season (no mention of INT's). Then to NYJ to coach Geno Smith who "started all 16 games" (yeah, that's the only fluff they could muster). Before that, coached Chad Pennington and Chad Henne.

 

Sign me up. This guy is a keeper.

 

Fitz certainly seemed to devolve under Lee's tutelage. It seemed as though it took him a year or so to recover. He's overall looking like a much better QB today, but when he's interviewed about the alleged improvement, he credits Bill O'brian, certainly not Lee. (We'll see what goes down this year)

[TANK2]

His QBs include

 

Quincy Carter -Dal

Vinny Testerverde - Dal

Drew Bledsoe - Dal

Tony Romo - Dal

Chad Henne- MIA

Chad Pennington - MIA

Sanchez - NYJ

Smith -NYJ

Matt Simms - NYJ

Fitz

Manuel

 

Etc no real elite QB development going on there

Good list that shows talent matters. Bledsoe and Romo very good over a long period of time.Fitx and Pennington average to above average over a long period of time. The rest below average to really bad over a long period of time. Doubt that's David Lee's fault. Or that they excelled only because of him.

[mob16151]

Quincy Carter initially far exceeded expectations in Dallas. To lazy to look up how both of thier careers overlap.

Edited September 19, 2016 by mob16151

[billyudi]

Last year in the preseason Taylor had a lot of zip on his passes, so much so that I remember commentators saying he needs to ease up a bit at times, everything was coming out a fastball. Then the season started and that zip wasn't quite the same, and this year it is non existent. Almost like they have coached him out of just going out there and sling it around the field. Him and EJ now seem to have the same ugly mechanics, that short step, all arm kind of thing. Just my uneducated observation.

[MAJBobby]

Good list that shows talent matters. Bledsoe and Romo very good over a long period of time.Fitx and Pennington average to above average over a long period of time. The rest below average to really bad over a long period of time. Doubt that's David Lee's fault. Or that they excelled only because of him.

Point of that list is he did not develop one young QB into something.

 

Surely not a list of a QB Whisperer, in which he is described

[TANK2]

Point of that list is he did not develop one young QB into something.

 

Surely not a list of a QB Whisperer, in which he is described

It's a bad list. And a bad way to make a point. Can't make garbage out of garbage. David Lee is the least of my worries at the moment.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I thought he made a mess of Fitz the first time he was here. Fitzpatrick doesn't play Quarterback conventionally because he is not conventional. He doesn't have what most Quarterbacks have so giving him the textbook technical pointers and telling him to move his feet like this and rotate his body like that was never going to help him. All of a sudden we ended up with a Fitzpatrick who was even less accurate because he was too busy trying to throw like David Lee wanted him to throw.

 

Fitz is a guy who you just have to say "this is what he is and this is how he plays" and then put pieces around him to help..... you know.... kind of like the Jets have. Meddling with his "technique" is never going to improve him.

 

Timing may matter. Lee tried to mess with Fitz technique starting in OTAs. That's too late.

 

Fitz is a curious beast. A couple years ago I was all "he is what he is". Football Outsiders, which has a curious mixture of stats, actually shows him moving up in their complex DVOA statistics (sort of like total QBR with an attempt to make it more objective). He took a significant jump with Hou from -3.6% to 6.7%, which is about where he is so far this year. His ranking in their system accordingly jumped from 23 to 10th or 11th the last 2 years. In interviews, Fitz credits Obrien with "helping him think differently about the game". Hmmm.

 

Be that as it may, the eyeball test when I've watched Fitz, shows differences. Yes, he's now got big and athletic receivers who help him out by going up or coming back for balls, but unless I was hallucinating I actually saw some very good throw, spirals even, last Thurs. In civilian clothes, his arms and upper body look stronger. I thought he was making throws he couldn't have made when he was with us. Again, unless I misheard, the announcers said something about him leading the league last year in long passes. That sounds incredible (as in "not credible" ) to me, but NFL.com shows him moving up from a consistent ~20th to 10th last year.

 

I think it's possible that Fitz finally 'invested in himself', went out in the off-season and quietly found his own QB whisperer to work with him in the off-season and improve his mechanics, then leave him alone during the season. I could see several years of off-season work potentially making a difference. OTAs, that's too late.

 

Anyway, if he continues to look good and Taylor continues to look bad, I wonder if at some point this board will "turn coat" and start pining for him. I personally think Lee should have been told to pack his bags along with Roman. Me, I think if we'd kept him, we would have gotten "more of the same", so I don't repine.

[Captain_Quint]

Hitler was once calle a "whisperer", too...

[The Frankish Reich]

 

Timing may matter. Lee tried to mess with Fitz technique starting in OTAs. That's too late.

 

Fitz is a curious beast. A couple years ago I was all "he is what he is". Football Outsiders, which has a curious mixture of stats, actually shows him moving up in their complex DVOA statistics (sort of like total QBR with an attempt to make it more objective). He took a significant jump with Hou from -3.6% to 6.7%, which is about where he is so far this year. His ranking in their system accordingly jumped from 23 to 10th or 11th the last 2 years. In interviews, Fitz credits Obrien with "helping him think differently about the game". Hmmm.

 

Be that as it may, the eyeball test when I've watched Fitz, shows differences. Yes, he's now got big and athletic receivers who help him out by going up or coming back for balls, but unless I was hallucinating I actually saw some very good throw, spirals even, last Thurs. In civilian clothes, his arms and upper body look stronger. I thought he was making throws he couldn't have made when he was with us. Again, unless I misheard, the announcers said something about him leading the league last year in long passes. That sounds incredible (as in "not credible" ) to me, but NFL.com shows him moving up from a consistent ~20th to 10th last year.

 

I think it's possible that Fitz finally 'invested in himself', went out in the off-season and quietly found his own QB whisperer to work with him in the off-season and improve his mechanics, then leave him alone during the season. I could see several years of off-season work potentially making a difference. OTAs, that's too late.

 

Anyway, if he continues to look good and Taylor continues to look bad, I wonder if at some point this board will "turn coat" and start pining for him. I personally think Lee should have been told to pack his bags along with Roman. Me, I think if we'd kept him, we would have gotten "more of the same", so I don't repine.

Really interesting post. Lots to chew on here. Bills fans still obviously focus on Fitz's late-season and late-in-game failures. But overall, his level of play has been .... kind of 2nd tier starting QB beginning with Houston, and he's keeping it up this year. There are a few recent examples of late bloomers at QB who made a similar shift from good backup type to very good starter - Rich Gannon comes to mind. But as you note, with Fitz we seem to be seeing better throws and not just better skill at breaking down defenses, and that's weird. Maybe it was nagging injuries, maybe it's a new offseason workout regime, maybe it's magic supplements, but whatever it is, his late in career surge is getting to be too sustained to ignore.

 

I know everyone will immediately say "just wait, he'll let the Jets down again." And that's probably true. But I'm talking about him becoming Andy Dalton, not Ben Roethlisberger. And I might as well go ahead and say it: in retrospect, we would have been better off keeping him. That's not to say it was smart to give him the huge extension. I just think that with the benefit of hindsight, the Bills doubled down on their mistake (when have they ever done that before or since?): the extension was ill-advised, but then eating the remainder of the contract and panic drafting EJ was equally ill-advised.