This woman is a scumbag, and rightly should burn in hell.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/25/mylan-expands-epipen-cost-cutting-programs-after-charges-of-price-gouging.html

 

Herpes breakout with a MRSA follow-on infection is too good a fate for this robber baroness.

 

[Nanker]

Simmah down Joe. She's the daughter of a Senator. A Democrat Senator. Learn to chill.

[Joe Miner]

So companies should sell products at a price that everyone can afford regardless of how much profit they make off of the product?

[GG]

And in the outrage, nobody is going to ask the questions on why aren't there competing alternatives to a 30-year old medicine & technology, and why US consumers continue to subsidize the rest of the world's medical drug buyers.

[IDBillzFan]

Here's my favorite part:

 

The Clinton campaign quickly called those rebate "insufficient," and renewed called for a price slash on EpiPens.

 

Next week we'll get the report that the Clinton campaign is 100% behind Mylan after it was announced the company made a $500,000 donation to the Clinton Foundation.

[Azalin]

Here's my favorite part:

 

 

Next week we'll get the report that the Clinton campaign is 100% behind Mylan after it was announced the company made a $500,000 donation to the Clinton Foundation.

 

I was surprised to see ABC running this:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/senator-joe-manchin-questions-epipen-pricing-company-daughter/story?id=41644437

[Nanker]

And in the outrage, nobody is going to ask the questions on why aren't there competing alternatives to a 30-year old medicine & technology, and why US consumers continue to subsidize the rest of the world's medical drug buyers.

First thing I thought of WRT this story. The delivery mechanism is about $0.20 in cost. Epinephrine isn't patent protected. Some enterprising generic company could come in and take a huge chunk of that market pretty easily IMHO. That's the only thing that will make the Whipley Snidelash roll back their pricing.

[GG]

First thing I thought of WRT this story. The delivery mechanism is about $0.20 in cost. Epinephrine isn't patent protected. Some enterprising generic company could come in and take a huge chunk of that market pretty easily IMHO. That's the only thing that will make the Whipley Snidelash roll back their pricing.

 

WSJ is blaming the FDA for stonewalling competitive products, for whom trials have been delayed or blocked.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

WSJ is blaming the FDA for stonewalling competitive products, for whom trials have been delayed or blocked.

 

Is the WSJ correct?

 

Even if they are correct, does it satisfy the manufacturer's flimsy complaints that underpin their decision to raise prices on an exponential curve? Or is it that the cost of epinephrine and plastic injector production's increased 500%?

So companies should sell products at a price that everyone can afford regardless of how much profit they make off of the product?

 

Question for you:

 

Do you figure the cost of production of epinephrine and plastic injectors has increased 500%? Or is it just a means to finance the CEO's $16 million pay increase? http://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/mylan-execs-gave-themselves-raises-they-hiked-epipen-prices-n636591

 

How many yachts does that woman need, anyway?

And in the outrage, nobody is going to ask the questions on why aren't there competing alternatives to a 30-year old medicine & technology, and why US consumers continue to subsidize the rest of the world's medical drug buyers.

 

Answer to the second part of that question's a no-brainer. The rest of the world sets price limits on drugs. The US doesn't. So, the companies gouge the public, and use the profits to ensure that the legislative environment stays exactly as it is.

 

As to the first part, it seems like Mylan's put on a full-court lobbying play to keep their little niche all to themselves, at the expense of consumers.

 

Aaaaaand in more Mylan news, our ne'er-do-well CEO with a fake MBA is also encouraging the firm she runs to dodge taxes (see the bottom of this article from the bastion of socialist thought that is "Forbes"):

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2016/08/23/ceo-of-mylan-pharmaceuticals-sees-671-salary-increase-in-8-years/#77a5b5c44b23

Edited August 25, 2016 by joesixpack

[snafu]

Isn't this one of those issues that should have been fixed before Affordable Care got shoved down everyone's throats?

[B-Large]

oh God, think of the children....

[Chef Jim]

Isn't this one of those issues that should have been fixed before Affordable Care got shoved down everyone's throats?

 

No this was what the ACA was supposed to fix AFTER it was shoved down our throats. Affordable Care my ass.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Simmah down Joe. She's the daughter of a Senator. A Democrat Senator. Learn to chill.

I know somebody that works for them (Dr. In chemistry) up in Vermont. They were all in a snit a few years ago when Mylan wanted to move operations to W.Virginia. I always wondered why. I guess the employees voted no back then.

 

Yes... All holier than thou Vermont!

oh God, think of the children....

Just avoid tree nuts. Anyway, back in the day, nobody had allergies, let alone 2 600 buck Epipens, w/a year's shelf life, on standby.

[Magox]

And in the outrage, nobody is going to ask the questions on why aren't there competing alternatives to a 30-year old medicine & technology, and why US consumers continue to subsidize the rest of the world's medical drug buyers.

 

 

Yes, this is mostly true, (even though arguing pharmaceutical policy of foreign countries is akin to arguing about the effects of globalization, it's useless) still doesn't take away the fact that it was a complete douchebag greedy sort of move. And that company is now paying the price

[reddogblitz]

Here is my favorite part:

 

But she also acknowledged that high retail prices of EpiPens in the United States effectively subsidize the cost of the devices when they are sold in Europe, at just $100 or $150. Many of the countries there have government-run health-care systems that limit drug prices charged by manufacturers, unlike the U.S.

 

"We do subsidize the rest of the world... and as a country we've made a conscious decision to do that," Bresch said. "And I think the world's a better place for it."

 

She's right. Since we don't have "socialized medicine", we get the privilege of paying exhorbanent prices for drugs, care, and insurance. The free global trade seems to have bitten us on the behind. Edited August 26, 2016 by reddogblitz

[ExiledInIllinois]

https://news.google.com/news/ampviewer?caurl=https%3A%2F%2Fetwww-a.akamaihd.net%2Fnews%2F196536_sarah_jessica_parker_cuts_ties_with_epipen_drug_maker_criticizes_price_increash%2Fampdoc.html#pt0-199312

 

Why don't we just go back to fee for service or (gasp) socialize the whole damn thing.

[unbillievable]

What's even scarier are the people advising others to buy epinephrine from veterinary supply stores and use a needle; to bypass the price gouging. A lot of people are going to do it too... 'cause social media spreads stupid very quickly.

[DC Tom]

I'd like to know why the EpiPen has increased 500% in seven years before I go blaming the CEO's desire for a new yacht, personally.

 

Mostly because I don't assume the distribution chain is from the CEO straight to the consumer.

[Keukasmallies]

Crap, I thought this was a thread about Hill'ry....

[Joe Miner]

I'd like to know why the EpiPen has increased 500% in seven years before I go blaming the CEO's desire for a new yacht, personally.

 

Mostly because I don't assume the distribution chain is from the CEO straight to the consumer.

Don't be silly. If you can't make a knee jerk reaction based on emotion from the clear facts that initial article contained, then you're just being ridiculous.

[Dorkington]

Every year or two some outrageous medical cost story happens in the US, we all fire up the keyboards and type out whatever opinions, and in the end nothing changes.

 

Not sure why this is any different. Feel free to blame whatever 'side' of the aisle, the real blame lies in our system of lobbying and corruption, which is a bipartisan issue.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Every year or two some outrageous medical cost story happens in the US, we all fire up the keyboards and type out whatever opinions, and in the end nothing changes.

 

Not sure why this is any different. Feel free to blame whatever 'side' of the aisle, the real blame lies in our system of lobbying and corruption, which is a bipartisan issue.

 

Exactly.

 

The problem in the US is the inordinate power of businesses over the political system.

Don't be silly. If you can't make a knee jerk reaction based on emotion from the clear facts that initial article contained, then you're just being ridiculous.

Come on, what kind of special do you need to be to think their distribution costs rose enough to warrant a 500% increase in cost to the consumer over 6 years?

[Azalin]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

Careful, wouldn't want to be accused of being "knee-jerk."

 

[Magox]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

 

 

The patent system for pharmaceuticals is ridiculous. Not sure that would have helped here that much, but without doubt if they shortened the time period which is 20 years, prices would drop. Without doubt!!!!

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

 

 

Also, it is common practice within the pharmaceutical sector where the patent holders will payoff the generic producers in what is dubbed "pay for delay" to hold off on making the generic version so that they can continue to rape consumers.

There is no bigger racket in our economic society than the pharmaceutical industry. It needs to be seriously reformed and in a huge way.

[GG]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

 

The patent isn't for the epinephrine, but for the entire injection system. That's been the main hold up for competition. Mylan has the best mousetrap for the dosage and the applicator that no one has been able to copy. There are other generic variants out there for the adrenaline shot, but it's more along the lines of trusting Eric Stolz in Pulp Fiction to administer it

[Nanker]

 

The patent isn't for the epinephrine, but for the entire injection system. That's been the main hold up for competition. Mylan has the best mousetrap for the dosage and the applicator that no one has been able to copy. There are other generic variants out there for the adrenaline shot, but it's more along the lines of trusting Eric Stolz in Pulp Fiction to administer it

That's right. Take too much and, well look what it did to this guy:

 

The dose has to be precisely delivered:

Edited August 26, 2016 by Nanker

[DC Tom]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

 

They don't hold the patent on epinephrine, they hold the patent on EpiPen. And they don't even manufacture the EpiPen. Pfizer does, via their King acquisition. They distribute it...but not direct to consumers. They distribute it to other organizations and companies who sell to consumers. That's why their currently stated plans for "price reduction" are rebate coupons - they can't reduce prices to consumers they don't directly sell to.

 

Yeah, it's a little more complicated than "corporation gouging the consumer."

[Joe Miner]

 

Exactly.

 

The problem in the US is the inordinate power of businesses over the political system.

 

Come on, what kind of special do you need to be to think their distribution costs rose enough to warrant a 500% increase in cost to the consumer over 6 years?

When people don't understand how something works (business) or have all the facts (actual cost of manufacturing distributing) they should be smart enough to keep their mouths closed.

 

But feel proud that you can easily be manipulated. Hillary appreciates your stupidity.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

When people don't understand how something works (business) or have all the facts (actual cost of manufacturing distributing) they should be smart enough to keep their mouths closed.

 

But feel proud that you can easily be manipulated. Hillary appreciates your stupidity.

Easily manipulated? Who's the one easily manipulated?

 

I'm sure your corporate overlords appreciate your blind devotion, clown.

 

 

 

What’s unclear is what the justification was for EpiPen’s price hikes in the first place. The profit margin on EpiPens is reportedly extraordinary, with markups easily over 50%. In other countries like Canada, an EpiPen pack sells for under $100, and it’s a safe bet Mylan isn’t losing money on the sales. In America, the shifting health care landscape hasn’t been the cause of Mylan jacking up EpiPen prices, which has been taking place long before Obamacare. It’s just that the rise of high-deductible plans has merely shed light that the price hikes have happened. The price increases that used to be borne by insurers (and ultimately, the customers paying the premiums) have more recently fallen directly to the families paying out of pocket for EpiPens.

 

http://time.com/money/4466052/epipen-prices-cut-mylan-gouging/

 

So to paraphrase in order that you're able to understand, despite any "distribution costs," Mylan is making a 50% markup BEFORE the product is even handed off to middlemen. But please, feel free to educate all of us about your -clearly- superior understanding of the situation. Is Obamacare a disaster? Sure, I've long said so. Let's not pretend the drug companies are innocent victims, however. They're clearly taking advantage of the situation.

The larger issue here is that between government incompetence and corporate greed, average people are finding an important tool to save lives out of their reach.

Edited August 26, 2016 by joesixpack

[Azalin]

 

 

The patent system for pharmaceuticals is ridiculous. Not sure that would have helped here that much, but without doubt if they shortened the time period which is 20 years, prices would drop. Without doubt!!!!

 

 

Also, it is common practice within the pharmaceutical sector where the patent holders will payoff the generic producers in what is dubbed "pay for delay" to hold off on making the generic version so that they can continue to rape consumers.

There is no bigger racket in our economic society than the pharmaceutical industry. It needs to be seriously reformed and in a huge way.

 

It's things like this that make me realize how naive I can be at times. I'm all for supporting business and industry, but not this kind of crap.

 

 

The patent isn't for the epinephrine, but for the entire injection system. That's been the main hold up for competition. Mylan has the best mousetrap for the dosage and the applicator that no one has been able to copy. There are other generic variants out there for the adrenaline shot, but it's more along the lines of trusting Eric Stolz in Pulp Fiction to administer it

 

I can just see a school cafeteria version of that scene right now.

 

 

They don't hold the patent on epinephrine, they hold the patent on EpiPen. And they don't even manufacture the EpiPen. Pfizer does, via their King acquisition. They distribute it...but not direct to consumers. They distribute it to other organizations and companies who sell to consumers. That's why their currently stated plans for "price reduction" are rebate coupons - they can't reduce prices to consumers they don't directly sell to.

 

Yeah, it's a little more complicated than "corporation gouging the consumer."

 

There has to the hand of government in there somewhere allowing this scenario to occur. This is one of those things that while apparently legal, strike me as being extremely unethical, and we wouldn't have a situation like this if true market forces were able to be put into play.

 

Or so it seems to me anyway.

[GG]

 

 

There has to the hand of government in there somewhere allowing this scenario to occur. This is one of those things that while apparently legal, strike me as being extremely unethical, and we wouldn't have a situation like this if true market forces were able to be put into play.

 

Or so it seems to me anyway.

 

Everyone has a hand in it. The issue is what Tom described. Everybody wants to have the branded EpiPen, not a generic version of an adrenaline shot.

[Magox]

 

It's things like this that make me realize how naive I can be at times. I'm all for supporting business and industry, but not this kind of crap.

 

 

I can just see a school cafeteria version of that scene right now.

 

 

There has to the hand of government in there somewhere allowing this scenario to occur. This is one of those things that while apparently legal, strike me as being extremely unethical, and we wouldn't have a situation like this if true market forces were able to be put into play.

 

Or so it seems to me anyway.

 

 

I am all for free markets, but the pharmaceutical markets aren't free, they are monopolized, rigged and crony capitalistic.

 

Just look at how Obamacare was passed. One of the biggest opponents to Clinton's healthcare plan back in the 90's was Big pharma. The Obama administration learned from that and decided to cut out a deal with Big pharma to gain their support in exchange for the promise of government not putting additional price controls (which they are going to renege) and block some imports from Canada and Europe.

 

It is anything but free markets.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

 

I am all for free markets, but the pharmaceutical markets aren't free, they are monopolized, rigged and crony capitalistic.

 

Just look at how Obamacare was passed. One of the biggest opponents to Clinton's healthcare plan back in the 90's was Big pharma. The Obama administration learned from that and decided to cut out a deal with Big pharma to gain their support in exchange for the promise of government not putting additional price controls (which they are going to renege) and block some imports from Canada and Europe.

 

It is anything but free markets.

 

Little if anything about our economy could be called a "free market."

 

If there was a free market here, Chrysler, GM, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Wells Fargo, and about two dozen other companies in the last 15 years would have gone under without taxpayer intervention.

[Joe Miner]

Easily manipulated? Who's the one easily manipulated?

 

I'm sure your corporate overlords appreciate your blind devotion, clown.

 

 

http://time.com/money/4466052/epipen-prices-cut-mylan-gouging/

 

So to paraphrase in order that you're able to understand, despite any "distribution costs," Mylan is making a 50% markup BEFORE the product is even handed off to middlemen. But please, feel free to educate all of us about your -clearly- superior understanding of the situation. Is Obamacare a disaster? Sure, I've long said so. Let's not pretend the drug companies are innocent victims, however. They're clearly taking advantage of the situation.

The larger issue here is that between government incompetence and corporate greed, average people are finding an important tool to save lives out of their reach.

If you'll notice I haven't actually made a claim as to what the issue is.

 

You could be right, but it would only be because you were lucky. You're still an idiot. You don't understand the situation or have all the information, but that hasn't stopped you from proclaiming someone you don't know should burn in hell.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

If you'll notice I haven't actually made a claim as to what the issue is.

 

You could be right, but it would only be because you were lucky. You're still an idiot. You don't understand the situation or have all the information, but that hasn't stopped you from proclaiming someone you don't know should burn in hell.

 

You'll pardon me if I have little to no sympathy for a CEO who writes her own paycheck.

 

Hopefully, she'll get hers.

[DC Tom]

There has to the hand of government in there somewhere allowing this scenario to occur. This is one of those things that while apparently legal, strike me as being extremely unethical, and we wouldn't have a situation like this if true market forces were able to be put into play.

 

Or so it seems to me anyway.

 

Of course. It's called the FDA. They doubled EpiPen sales when they declared that TWO shots of epinephrine were necessary to treat anaphylactic shock (and Mylan responded by making double EpiPen packs and ceasing production of single packs...because FDA.)

 

And Congress. Hell, Congress passed a law requiring schools to stock EpiPens (probably "epinephrine auto-injectors," but phrased in a way that only EpiPens were suitable.) And while Mylan basically donates them to schools...it's still reduces supply available to the market. (And note that many of these (*^*&%^$^#Congressmen who passed - and sponsored - the law are the same ones now bitching about the situation they're in part responsible for creating.)

 

Not that I hold Mylan blameless...I just don't know what to blame them for (I went through their financials - I'm still not sure what, beyond brand management and being the middleman between King and pharmaceutical providers, they contribute to this whole process.) But it's the perfect example of what's wrong with the pharmaceutical industry in the US: a byzantine mix of Congressional meddling, regulatory stupidity, patent law, corporate lobbying, multiple independent middlemen, and business practices that are, even if scrupulously honest, are inscrutable.

[KD in CA]

Every year or two some outrageous medical cost story happens in the US, we all fire up the keyboards and type out whatever opinions, and in the end nothing changes.

 

Not sure why this is any different. Feel free to blame whatever 'side' of the aisle, the real blame lies in our system of lobbying and corruption, which is a bipartisan issue.

 

The problem is only one party is characterized as being greedy and not caring about the little guy while the other party is characterized as a champion of the little guy. Perhaps if more people could be honest about all politicians, problems like this would be easier to identify and address.

[snafu]

Epinephrine has been around for years, yet Mylan still holds the patent. From what I understand, they'll retain that patent for another nine years or so. How can they hold a patent for so long? It usually takes what - seven years (?) before generic versions of a drug become available. It looks a lot like Mylan has some kind of sweet deal allowing them exclusive ownership of epinephrine, preventing competition from bringing costs down.

Not only that, you have to replace the things every year because they only have a 1 year shelf life. Makes me wonder if that's legit, but who wants to take the chance? At the very least the company can offer a rebate for turning in expired epi-pens so they can recycle them. Might bring the cost down, too.

[DC Tom]

At the very least the company can offer a rebate for turning in expired epi-pens so they can recycle them.

 

Probably against FDA regulations.