Peter Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 When is Bill Belichick going to be fired for drafting and extending Aaron Hernandez who was convicted of killing someone? The signs were there. Heads must roll. It must have been Doug and Rex's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 When is Bill Belichick going to be fired for drafting and extending Aaron Hernandez who was convicted of killing someone? The signs were there. Heads must roll. It must have been Doug and Rex's fault. No, no, no..... It's Ralph's fault. We should have out bid them, but Ralph is cheap! (I heard that somewhere....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) I understand that the players are grown-men and responsible for their actions. I get that injuries happen. But at some point, when does it stop being bad luck and start being someone making poor decisions to bring all of these people together? Karlos Williams had personal issues in college. Their were rumors of Shaq's injury. Dareus had issues his first few years. I could keep going. Again, I know there is a certain level of circumstance, but it gets to a point where you have to wonder. It's like that person in your life who always gets in trouble or get cheated on. You know they don't want it to happen, but they always find a way when no one else does. Just thoughts. Flame away. Whaley used a 5th round pick on Karlos. All anyone has to ask about his selection is: Was he worth the risk at that point? It's difficult for me to lambast a guy for taking a chance with a Day 3 pick on a talented player with off the field issues that were serious enough to possibly derail his career. Players available at that point in the draft all have issues of some sort. IMO it was a reasonable decision to take that risk on that player at that point in the draft. It just didn't happen to work out. Sometimes reasonable bets don't pay off. That's life. Edited August 22, 2016 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Whaley used a 5th round pick on Karlos. All anyone has to ask about his selection is: Was he worth the risk at that point? It's difficult for me to lambast a guy for taking a chance with a Day 3 pick on a talented player with potentially serious off the field issues. IMO it was a reasonable decision to take that risk on that player at that point in the draft. It just didn't happen to work out. Sometimes reasonable bets don't pay off. That's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Whaley used a 5th round pick on Karlos. All anyone has to ask about his selection is: Was he worth the risk at that point? It's difficult for me to lambast a guy for taking a chance with a Day 3 pick on a talented player with potentially serious off the field issues. IMO it was a reasonable decision to take that risk on that player at that point in the draft. It just didn't happen to work out. Sometimes reasonable bets don't pay off. That's life. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Whaley used a 5th round pick on Karlos. All anyone has to ask about his selection is: Was he worth the risk at that point? It's difficult for me to lambast a guy for taking a chance with a Day 3 pick on a talented player with off the field issues that were serious enough to possibly derail his career. Players available at that point in the draft all have issues of some sort. IMO it was a reasonable decision to take that risk on that player at that point in the draft. It just didn't happen to work out. Sometimes reasonable bets don't pay off. That's life. I might argue that even the one surprisingly good year we got out of him constituted a win for a 5th rounder. Or at least a tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Read your post back to yourself and I hope for your sake - you expose yourself. I have no idea what you're talking about. As far as I can tell, your sole contribution to this site is to attack anyone who questions any move by the Bills' coaching staff or front office. Your next actual football take will be your first. Edited August 22, 2016 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Whaley needs to go. this is his mess. And he will if they stink this season. The next cleanup (if it happens) would have the Bills new ownership go with a new GM and Coach tandem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) To me, the organization lacks cohesion from the top down. Still have all the wilson legacy guys protecting their spots of power and influence, then you have whaley.... who may have skill in defense player projections but seems laid back... and this firebrand showman head coach. Jets fans and media warned he lacks discipline, and spews too much hot air and we have seen they are probably right. Everyone seems to report individually and directly to the owners, who dont know how to put a winning program together either. Imo this structure isnt sustainable. They need a strong, outside voice to build a winning football program from the studs out. I can already see where this is going. Mid november Either this season or next, when they are out of it, there will be a power struggle between rex and whaley. One will win, one will go... then we will have everyone call out "year zero" again while russ brandon whispers "continuity" in the fans' ears. Edited August 22, 2016 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I might argue that even the one surprisingly good year we got out of him constituted a win for a 5th rounder. Or at least a tie. True. And last season certainly validated his upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 To me, the organization lacks cohesion from the top down. Still have all the wilson legacy guys protecting their spots of power and influence, then you have whaley.... who may have skill in defense player projections but seems laid back... and this firebrand showman head coach. Jets fans and media warned he lacks discipline, and spews too much hot air and we have seen they are probably right. Everyone seems to report individually and directly to the owners, who dont know how to put a winning program together either. Imo this structure isnt sustainable. They need a strong, outside voice to build a winning football program from the studs out. I can already see where this is going. Mid november Either this season or next, when they are out of it, there will be a power struggle between rex and whaley. One will win, one will go... then we will have everyone call out "year zero" again while russ brandon whispers "continuity" in the fans' ears. I have no idea how you think you have enough knowledge of the internal workings at OBD to be able to reasonably come to this conclusion. I'm not saying you're right or wrong -- just that this strikes me as a very uninformed opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 To me, the organization lacks cohesion from the top down. Still have all the wilson legacy guys protecting their spots of power and influence, then you have whaley.... who may have skill in defense player projections but seems laid back... and this firebrand showman head coach. Jets fans and media warned he lacks discipline, and spews too much hot air and we have seen they are probably right. Everyone seems to report individually and directly to the owners, who dont know how to put a winning program together either. Imo this structure isnt sustainable. They need a strong, outside voice to build a winning football program from the studs out. I can already see where this is going. Mid november Either this season or next, when they are out of it, there will be a power struggle between rex and whaley. One will win, one will go... then we will have everyone call out "year zero" again while russ brandon whispers "continuity" in the fans' ears. So it will happen in mid-November, but not sure what year. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) So it will happen in mid-November, but not sure what year. Gotcha. every year. I have seen the movie play out too many times. Edited August 22, 2016 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I have no idea how you think you have enough knowledge of the internal workings at OBD to be able to reasonably come to this conclusion. I'm not saying you're right or wrong -- just that this strikes me as a very uninformed opinion. Not trying to flame, but pot meet kettle? Not literally, figuratively. And I think it could have an impact on where a player re-signs. I don't have proof, so don't ask for any. Just a hunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I have no idea how you think you have enough knowledge of the internal workings at OBD to be able to reasonably come to this conclusion. I'm not saying you're right or wrong -- just that this strikes me as a very uninformed opinion. Very uninformed? I have been watching and following sports religiously for 30+ years and know the difference between good organizations and bad. I have been saying the same or similar thing for almost 10 years now, many of those on here, only to be questioned like I have no clue... people yelling 'continuity' and 'year 1' (when all I see is continuity). You look at the tea leaves and you see dysfunction. Marrone walked his career off a cliff rather than be here with Wilson's 'lifers' (the second coach to do so in a decade). Someone there seems to like to float nuggets/leaks out there... and it looks like most are aimed towards Whaley. Plus people were 'badmouthing' Polian which apparently made him rethink his desire to come in and help. It is a bad and poisonous front office who have accomplished less than nothing. Have they had a meaningful week 16 or 17 game in a decade? I also was educated in and worked in sports for about a decade, including a stint at the Bills (in the Donahoe era) Trust me, I want them to do good. Would be delighted to have an event free camp/preseason and the Bills to roll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Not trying to flame, but pot meet kettle? They don't seem similar at all to me. Very uninformed? I have been watching and following sports religiously for 30+ years and know the difference between good organizations and bad. I have been saying the same or similar thing for almost 10 years now, many of those on here, only to be questioned like I have no clue... people yelling 'continuity' and 'year 1' (when all I see is continuity). You look at the tea leaves and you see dysfunction. Marrone walked his career off a cliff rather than be here with Wilson's 'lifers' (the second coach to do so in a decade). Someone there seems to like to float nuggets/leaks out there... and it looks like most are aimed towards Whaley. Plus people were 'badmouthing' Polian which apparently made him rethink his desire to come in and help. It is a bad and poisonous front office who have accomplished less than nothing. Have they had a meaningful week 16 or 17 game in a decade? I also was educated in and worked in sports for about a decade, including a stint at the Bills (in the Donahoe era) Trust me, I want them to do good. Would be delighted to have an event free camp/preseason and the Bills to roll... You still have no information as to the inner workings at OBD. You're actually using Marrone as an example? The guy couldn't get a sniff anywhere -- would that happen if "everyone" knew the Bills were a mess and he had to get out? You don't have to get mad at me -- I simply don't think you have the information needed to make the assertions you have made about dysfunction in the current organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Whaley used a 5th round pick on Karlos. All anyone has to ask about his selection is: Was he worth the risk at that point? It's difficult for me to lambast a guy for taking a chance with a Day 3 pick on a talented player with off the field issues that were serious enough to possibly derail his career. Players available at that point in the draft all have issues of some sort. IMO it was a reasonable decision to take that risk on that player at that point in the draft. It just didn't happen to work out. Sometimes reasonable bets don't pay off. That's life. Great point and to take it a step further I'm not sure it didn't work out by comparison. If I told you that Jonathan Williams (as an example) would score 11 TDs on his rookie deal would that be considered good? Karlos was a 5th rounder that produced like a much earlier pick. He was on the board because of his off the field issues. The point that I am making is 1 year of Karlos more production than the rookie contract of Jonathan Williams, Cyril Richardson, Jonathan Meeks, Zebrie Sanders, Tank Carder, Johnny White, Ed Wang, Nic Harris or Alvin Bowen? That's what guys drafted around Karlos look like. Edited August 22, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 They don't seem similar at all to me. You still have no information as to the inner workings at OBD. You're actually using Marrone as an example? The guy couldn't get a sniff anywhere -- would that happen if "everyone" knew the Bills were a mess and he had to get out? You don't have to get mad at me -- I simply don't think you have the information needed to make the assertions you have made about dysfunction in the current organization. Neither of you have any information, proof or evidence. It's a clear parallel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I'm not mad, no need worry about that. If Marrone cant/shouldn't get a sniff anywhere. Why was he hired here and who hired him? (after leaving 'no stone unturned')? Why does this person(s) continue to get free passes and Year-1 resets? In fact, I recall having this same discussion prior to that Oakland game after the Green Bay win, and the same people here who now put down Marrone, were pushing him as a wonderful hire and a legit NFL COY candidate. A true feather in the cap of OBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 I think the cutting of karlos may be the first sign the FO is starting to take power away from Rex & co. I think Rex was part of the decision.....Carlos lost his mind, and, wasn't going to play much at all this year....as he was not in shape, and had no training camp to speak of.....others WAY ahead of him in terms of preparedness. The fact that he showed up at Camp weighing more than he was at OTA's speaks volumes. And, Rex and the coaches are not babhysitters. Now, I could argue that the team incl front office should be providing some support for those that need it.....think how Dallas takes care of their prima donna wr..Dez.......but, can't do that for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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