Jason Cole report on Doug Whaley

[ndirish1978]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/users/3290243-jason-cole

 

Thank Yolo, I'd already seen that though, probably just worded my question wrong. This is what I'm going for: Am I wrong about Bleacher Report being anything beyond a user-generated content repository? Has it now somehow become a respectable place for journalism?

[White Linen]

Biggest need filled in the first round with Lawson. What was the second biggest need? ILB....oh look Ragland is sliding down the board. He is a 150 tackle guy blah blah blah...he is a great linebacker a decade ago, now he is a younger version of Brandon Spikes. First two picks two biggest needs filled then on to Washington etc. Was this is a perfect draft or was it a patchwork attempt to acquire guys for Rex to revamp the defense? We won't be able to judge that for a few years because of injuries. I forget, weren't the comments made that Whaley would have taken Ragland at 19 if Shaq wasn't there? Does anyone of this not seem all too convienent for any one team.

 

What are the chances that Ragland an ILB is going to have more impact than those guys we didn't draft? Then in the process you dropped 2 more 4th round picks to get up and get him. Injuries or not it was a silly move.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/buffalo-bills-news/2016/4/29/11542076/reggie-ragland-preston-brown-bills-depth-chart-doug-whaley?client=safari

 

Discussion over. Our two biggest needs were edge and ILB, look who Whaley says were the top two players on his board at 19. How convienent.

 

 

Who was this monstrous talent we neglected to pick at 19? Trading up is widely debated - should you ever trade up but not for someone you have graded significantly higher than the pick number outside of a position of need?

 

What's convenient is that the majority of experts said defensive line was one of the deepest positions in the 2016 draft. Did anyone really think we weren't going to get one, except maybe you and a few other goofballs? Ragland was rated high by the Bills - you can disagree, that's fine. However to act like you absolutely know it was the wrong move is bizarre.

 

You're right about one thing. The discussion is over because there's a clear winner - me.

[Jauronimo]

 

Thank Yolo, I'd already seen that though, probably just worded my question wrong. This is what I'm going for: Am I wrong about Bleacher Report being anything beyond a user-generated content repository? Has it now somehow become a respectable place for journalism?

It was bought by Sports Illustrated and now partners with CNN. Not sure if Bleacher Report got better or CNN is sliding toward TMZ or both, though.

[FireChan]

BADOL's whole argument was predicated on hindsight.

 

What numbers are there to look at when you're assuming that one extremely subjective and nearly impossible to define metric like "high potential" pans out more frequently than another extremely subjective and nearly impossible to define metric like "low potential"? What was the "potential" gap between Woods and Patterson, Hunter, and Austin?

You have discovered that scouting is not a perfect science? We're making progress now.

 

If you put 50 scouts in a room and asked them to rank those 4 players in terms of potential, how many different answers do you think you'd get? Maybe 2?

[YoloinOhio]

 

Thank Yolo, I'd already seen that though, probably just worded my question wrong. This is what I'm going for: Am I wrong about Bleacher Report being anything beyond a user-generated content repository? Has it now somehow become a respectable place for journalism?

it has. Tyler Dunne from TBN actually just joined BR. Matt Miller heads up their NFL draft site. Edited August 11, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Jauronimo]

You have discovered that scouting is not a perfect science? We're making progress now.

 

If you put 50 scouts in a room and asked them to rank those 4 players in terms of potential, how many different answers do you think you'd get? Maybe 2?

I don't know. Baseless speculation isn't my area of expertise.

 

Relative order or rank is one thing. How many different answers do you think you'd get regarding each player's ceiling and potential, risk, and floor?

[CommonCents]

 

 

Who was this monstrous talent we neglected to pick at 19? Trading up is widely debated - should you ever trade up but not for someone you have graded significantly higher than the pick number outside of a position of need?

 

What's convenient is that the majority of experts said defensive line was one of the deepest positions in the 2016 draft. Did anyone really think we weren't going to get one, except maybe you and a few other goofballs? Ragland was rated high by the Bills - you can disagree, that's fine. However to act like you absolutely know it was the wrong move is bizarre.

 

You're right about one thing. The discussion is over because there's a clear winner - me.

Come out acting like a child, dig in your heels, walk right into the obvious fact that Whaley wanted Ragland and Shaq both at 19 then claim victory while spinning in circles. Awesomeness, good luck.

[34-78-83]

 

i can tell you what Jason Cole alleges is implicitly not true in regards to ownership and executive management.

what Cole suggests is "many people," which is a very easy out to protect himself from being challenged, and a sweeping generalization that is unprovable. it's irresponsible journalism on Cole's part.

Absolutely irresponsible to hide behind one or perhaps three sources and make this allegation.

 

This type of reporting embarrasses us all in the business..

 

jw

TY John... Exactly what I was getting at earlier and glad to see you are bothered by it as well.

[White Linen]

Come out acting like a child, dig in your heels, walk right into the obvious fact that Whaley wanted Ragland and Shaq both at 19 then claim victory while spinning in circles. Awesomeness, good luck.

 

You can't read good either, huh?

[Bill from NYC]

 

You do realize we traded up to get Ragland, right?

I am a HUGE Crimson Tide Fan for many decades. I was glad to see them take Ragland, but I think that the sentence above is a problem.

 

Whaley strikes me as the proverbial kid in a candy store. He gives away far too many draft choices and way too much money. When he DID trade down for draft picks he wound up with Kiko, and of course EJ Manuel. Shabby indeed.

 

Yes, I do credit him with a couple of good draft picks, Darby is one. But his mistakes are glaring and huge. Even I knew that Kujo was injured, and not very good. EJ? McCoy's contract? Numerous draft pick giveaways? REX????!!!!

 

I understand loyalty, but to whom are we loyal, Whaley or the Bills?

 

Once again, my money says Rex won't last this entire season, and Whaley will be gone before next year. Hopefully they will turn out to be great, highly respected football gurus and I will be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GunnerBill]

All I will add is on my board Lawson was the obvious pick this yea at 19. I'd have been hopping mad if they passed on him. Ragland was the 2nd best player on my board come our pick in round 2 I don't love the pick but I do think it was a solid one.

 

I like that Whaley trades up and I thi m his work as GM is sound. Does he have a habit of picking low risk guys in round 2? I suppose he does but he also took Darby who didnt even make it onto my list of players to grade in 2015. That worked out okay. I trust our current GM.

I blame Whaley in part for EJ (my belief is Buddy made the decision we were going QB in the 1st in 2013 then Whaley was tasked with deciding who.... of the choices I'd have gone with EJ too) totally for Kujo and in part for Rex. I know for a fact Rex was not Whaley's first choice, but he should have pushed harder for his guy rather than pandering to the Pegulas. He thought he could work with Rex. He was wrong. If there is a contract I hate it is Clay's not McCoy's.

[White Linen]

I am a HUGE Crimson Tide Fan for many decades. I was glad to see them take Ragland, but I think that the sentence above is a problem.

 

Whaley strikes me as the proverbial kid in a candy store. He gives away far too many draft choices and way too much money. When he DID trade down for draft picks he wound up with Kiko, and of course EJ Manuel. Shabby indeed.

 

Yes, I do credit him with a couple of good draft picks, Darby is one. But his mistakes are glaring and huge. Even I knew that Kujo was injured, and not very good. EJ? McCoy's contract? Numerous draft pick giveaways? REX????!!!!

 

I understand loyalty, but to whom are we loyal, Whaley or the Bills?

 

Once again, my money says Rex won't last this entire season, and Whaley will be gone before next year. Hopefully they will turn out to be great, highly respected football gurus and I will be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Fair enough take. My argument is that he's done a lot more good things than missing on some draft picks. Our roster is loaded with talent - would you agree with that?

 

I'm not sure what the connection is between you being a Clemson fan and Ragland is (unless you meant Lawson) but - what sucks is Ragland won't have the opportunity to show what he can or can't be in the NFL.

 

I'm surprised at your depiction of Whaley because he seems like one focused guy doing prudent things. Whether they manifest themselves into good things is yet to be determined.

 

Of course our loyalty is always with the Bills but if I believe Whaley is doing a good job - I want him to stay.

[FireChan]

I don't know. Baseless speculation isn't my area of expertise.

 

Relative order or rank is one thing. How many different answers do you think you'd get regarding each player's ceiling and potential, risk, and floor?

Relative order or rank is how teams make their draft boards, J-mo.

 

Baseless speculation can be fun. Don't be afraid to put your toe in the water, you prude.

[BADOLBILZ]

It's kind of interesting... when we take a risk on a high ceiling guy, we're 'wasting picks on risky players'. When we take a high floor, low risk guy, we're 'wasting picks on non stars'.

 

Sounds like we should trade 100% of our picks for vets, if I'm understanding correctly.

 

That's not my viewpoint.

 

I applauded the Sammy Watkins trade.

 

One Sammy is worth a bushel of Bobs.

 

And that's my point..........the early part of your draft is for finding guys with high ceilings at important positions.

 

The guys that you can't find scrounging thru other teams discards.

 

Whaley and Nix are actually pretty good at finding discards to plug in and be serviceable lower impact complementary starters.....be it Scott Chandler or Kraig Urbik or Chris Hogan or Corbin Bryant or Jordan Mills or Mike Gillislee.

 

Which begs the question.....why draft a smallish/unathletic OG like John Miller in round 3?

 

Why draft an undersized NT in Torrel Troupe at the top of round 2 when functional full size NT's are cheap in FA and often developed in later rounds or after bouncing around the league?

 

Maybe you get lucky and a low ceiling bust like 3rd round LB Kelvin Sheppard nets you a good player in trade but it was still a bad pick.

 

I like a lot of things what Nix/Whaley have done....... but their draft strategy is far too heavily weighted toward filling needs and done without enough regard to impact/positional value.

 

Jauronimo says that's hindsight..........others take the opposite view and say that I don't give the guys a chance to prove themselves.......still others point out instances where successful teams have made bad picks.

 

The point is hindsight is the scoreboard..........understanding limiting factors and past history is a good way to project an outcome.........and there are always key differences between those successful organizations that blow their 2nd and 3rd round picks and the Bills.......and it usually has a lot to do with the quality of a QB and or/a Head coach.

Edited August 11, 2016 by #BADOL

[Mr. WEO]

"implicitly" not true?

[Jauronimo]

 

That's not my viewpoint.

 

I applauded the Sammy Watkins trade.

 

One Sammy is worth a bushel of Bobs.

 

And that's my point..........the early part of your draft is for finding guys with high ceilings at important positions.

 

The guys that you can't find scrounging thru other teams discards.

 

Whaley and Nix are actually pretty good at finding discards to plug in and be serviceable lower impact complementary starters.....be it Scott Chandler or Kraig Urbik or Chris Hogan or Corbin Bryant or Jordan Mills or Mike Gillislee.

 

Which begs the question.....why draft a smallish/unathletic OG like John Miller in round 3?

 

Why draft an undersized NT in Torrel Troupe at the top of round 2 when functional full size NT's are cheap in FA and often developed in later rounds or after bouncing around the league?

 

Maybe you get lucky and a low ceiling bust like 3rd round LB Kelvin Sheppard nets you a good player in trade but it was still a bad pick.

 

I like a lot of things what Nix/Whaley have done....... but their draft strategy is far too heavily weighted toward filling needs and done without enough regard to impact/positional value.

 

Jauronimo says that's hindsight..........others take the opposite view and say that I don't give the guys a chance to prove themselves.......still others point out instances where successful teams have made bad picks.

 

The point is hindsight is the scoreboard..........understanding limiting factors and past history is a good way to project an outcome.........and there are always key differences between those successful organizations that blow their 2nd and 3rd round picks and the Bills.......and it usually has a lot to do with the quality of a QB and or/a Head coach.

I don't have an issue with hindsight as long as its applied consistently and both the failures and successes are accounted for. Your disciple FireChan tried to dismiss my argument as hindsight while supporting yours, which is why I called it out.

[GunnerBill]

It is also the case that Kony Ealy who was used as an example (and I liked him coming out too) is not a slam dunk NFL star yet. He had a great Superbowl but he was still essentially a role player in 2015. I hope to see him take the next step in 2016 because he is a guy I liked a lot at draft time.

[FireChan]

I don't have an issue with hindsight as long as its applied consistently and both the failures and successes are accounted for. Your disciple FireChan tried to dismiss my argument as hindsight while supporting yours, which is why I called it out.

Disciple?

[Mr. WEO]

Disciple?

 

Jesus.....this has taken a turn.

[Beerball]

Disciple?

bird of a different feather?