Bills Plan to improve the offense “The power of prayer"

[BillsVet]

Memo to Denver Broncos, Seattle Seahawks, Carolina Panthers, and Kansas City Chiefs: investing in defense and building an offense to run is not how to win in today's NFL. Any winning you done this way, give it back, y'hear?

 

Snarky seems to be your retort to anything of dissent around here. It's obviously used when someone cannot debate. But let's get to the point

 

Denver, for 3 years, had Peyton Manning playing excellent ball. Seattle and Carolina had QBs who are the lone examples of mobile proven QBs. Kansas City has a game manager type who is limited.

 

Here's a Sesame Street analogy: One of these (BUF, CAR, DEN, KC, and SEA) is not like the others. Care to guess which one?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

What makes you think we won't alter our offense. Yes, studying film helps, but teams knew we ran the ball most of the time and still couldn't stop us. Just because you know a teams tendencies it doesn't always give you an advantage.

 

klos, I guess I personally have the fear that we won't alter our offense because Roman is kind of a one-trick pony. I agree, if your team is really really good at executing, sometimes the other team can know what you're going to do and it doesn't help....see Brady and the Patriots

[GunnerBill]

 

Snarky seems to be your retort to anything of dissent around here. It's obviously used when someone cannot debate. But let's get to the point

 

Denver, for 3 years, had Peyton Manning playing excellent ball. Seattle and Carolina had QBs who are the lone examples of mobile proven QBs. Kansas City has a game manager type who is limited.

 

Here's a Sesame Street analogy: One of these (BUF, CAR, DEN, KC, and SEA) is not like the others. Care to guess which one?

 

So your argument has gone from "you can't win with a run game and defense" to "the Bills can't win with a run game and defense"?

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Denver, for 3 years, had Peyton Manning playing excellent ball.

 

And yet, only won the Super Bowl when he was pretty bad, relying on their run game and Defense. You are on a roll, sir!

[BillsVet]

And yet, only won the Super Bowl when he was pretty bad, relying on their run game and Defense. You are on a roll, sir!

 

Denver's played in 8 playoff games that past 4 seasons. The Bills haven't made the playoffs in 16 years.

 

And in terms of defense, in his first season as DC Wade took a 16th ranked defense (in points allowed) and made them 4th. Rex took a 4th and made it a 19th.

Edited May 2, 2016 by BillsVet

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Denver's played in 8 playoff games that past 4 seasons. The Bills haven't made the playoffs in 16 years.

 

And in terms of defense, in his first season as DC Wade took a 16th ranked defense (in points allowed) and made them 4th. Rex took a 4th and made it a 19th.

 

None of these details have anything to do with your argument that: Defense and Running the ball doesnt win anymore.

 

Actually, once again, you are proving our point. 4th ranked D won the Super Bowl, 19th ranked D didnt make the playoffs.

[GunnerBill]

 

And in terms of defense, in his first season as DC Wade took a 16th ranked defense (in points allowed) and made them 4th. Rex took a 4th and made it a 19th.

 

Precisely. Which is why the Bills are trying to rebuild the defense. You started this criticising them for doing so by saying defense and running game doesn't win any more. If the Bills ever managed to get a top 5 defense and a #1 ranked run game at the same time we might find out whether we could win that way.

 

Let me say this - you can't win with just one of those two things. You need both.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Precisely. Which is why the Bills are trying to rebuild the defense. You started this criticising them for doing so by saying defense and running game doesn't win any more. If the Bills ever managed to get a top 5 defense and a #1 ranked run game at the same time we might find out whether we could win that way.

 

Let me say this - you can't win with just one of those two things. You need both.

 

Exactly. We were the #1 rushing team. If we had had anything near a top-10 defense, we're in the playoffs.

[GunnerBill]

 

Exactly. We were the #1 rushing team. If we had had anything near a top-10 defense, we're in the playoffs.

 

If we have a top 10 defense we don't throw the Jaguars game after we get in front, we don't give up leads in Philly and Kansas City and we don't let the Giants off the hook when we have all the momentum in that game and we could very well have ended 12-4.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

If we have a top 10 defense we don't throw the Jaguars game after we get in front, we don't give up leads in Philly and Kansas City and we don't let the Giants off the hook when we have all the momentum in that game and we could very well have ended 12-4.

 

But this team is TERRIBLE! So far off from being a contender because Whaley is bad at his job, they overpaid for a RB and TE, have a QB who can't see the middle fo the field, and Rex and his Brother are clowns!

 

 

(I think I covered all the usual pessimistic responses to this)

[BADOLBILZ]

Biggest issue at play here is that other teams now have lots of film on:

 

1) Tyrod Taylor

 

2) Roman's unique rush offense with these exact same players

 

Last year both caught many opponents by surprise.

 

The assumption is that experience together will mean progress but with little change planned and clear questions about the right side of the OL(think Eagles game implosion) and Tyrod's ability to read defenses and throw receivers open the offense then becomes a stationary target for defensive game planners with last season's film on hand.

 

We've seen QB progress halted by film study many, many times. I don't expect Tyrod to go Trent/JP or even Fitz level bad but he already nearly lead the league in 3 and outs and couldn't possibly protect the ball any better.........so there are holes in his game and he could actually get worse if those punts turn into pics.

 

This is why I valued a #1A WR as the most important need.

 

If you have an elite talent opposite Watkins you force both safeties to vacate the LOS which exposes them to the run game and diminishes the effect of games they may want to play with Tyrod.

[klos63]

Biggest issue at play here is that other teams now have lots of film on:

 

1) Tyrod Taylor

 

2) Roman's unique rush offense with these exact same players

 

Last year both caught many opponents by surprise.

 

The assumption is that experience together will mean progress but with little change planned and clear questions about the right side of the OL(think Eagles game implosion) and Tyrod's ability to read defenses and throw receivers open the offense then becomes a stationary target for defensive game planners with last season's film on hand.

 

We've seen QB progress halted by film study many, many times. I don't expect Tyrod to go Trent/JP or even Fitz level bad but he already nearly lead the league in 3 and outs and couldn't possibly protect the ball any better.........so there are holes in his game and he could actually get worse if those punts turn into pics.

 

This is why I valued a #1A WR as the most important need.

 

If you have an elite talent opposite Watkins you force both safeties to vacate the LOS which exposes them to the run game and diminishes the effect of games they may want to play with Tyrod.

sounds simple enough, but the fact is we are run oriented team with emphasis on a strong defense to complement the run game. That was the plan at the start of last season, it's not going to change after one season.

 

And we have film of all defenses that we face this season, especially of NE, how much has that helped in the past 10-12 years?

[ndirish1978]

Biggest issue at play here is that other teams now have lots of film on:

 

1) Tyrod Taylor

 

2) Roman's unique rush offense with these exact same players

 

Last year both caught many opponents by surprise.

 

The assumption is that experience together will mean progress but with little change planned and clear questions about the right side of the OL(think Eagles game implosion) and Tyrod's ability to read defenses and throw receivers open the offense then becomes a stationary target for defensive game planners with last season's film on hand.

 

We've seen QB progress halted by film study many, many times. I don't expect Tyrod to go Trent/JP or even Fitz level bad but he already nearly lead the league in 3 and outs and couldn't possibly protect the ball any better.........so there are holes in his game and he could actually get worse if those punts turn into pics.

 

This is why I valued a #1A WR as the most important need.

 

If you have an elite talent opposite Watkins you force both safeties to vacate the LOS which exposes them to the run game and diminishes the effect of games they may want to play with Tyrod.

 

So basically you're upset because our GM didn't do what you wanted them to? You wanted to try and have a team that races the other team to 50 without the players to stop them from scoring?

[BADOLBILZ]

sounds simple enough, but the fact is we are run oriented team with emphasis on a strong defense to complement the run game. That was the plan at the start of last season, it's not going to change after one season.

 

And we have film of all defenses that we face this season, especially of NE, how much has that helped in the past 10-12 years?

 

Identifying and having the ability to exploit a weakness are two different things.

 

The Eagles game last year was a case where Chip Kelly had game planned against that Stanford offense for years and he took away much of what Roman wanted to do by shooting gaps and disrupting the run game before it started.

 

I love me some Tyrod........when people ask me what I like about this years draft I tell them "that we already have Tyrod"........but he was no surgeon as a passer and chain mover. He's got holes in his game and expecting no-hands Hankerson and skates Woods to take any pressure off of Watkins is a lot to ask. Tyrod is in a contract year......if teams take away the deep passing option and he struggles to move the chains it is going to take a ton of restraint for him to not start pressing and then those punts become turnovers.

[eball]

Biggest issue at play here is that other teams now have lots of film on:

 

1) Tyrod Taylor

 

2) Roman's unique rush offense with these exact same players

 

Last year both caught many opponents by surprise.

 

The assumption is that experience together will mean progress but with little change planned and clear questions about the right side of the OL(think Eagles game implosion) and Tyrod's ability to read defenses and throw receivers open the offense then becomes a stationary target for defensive game planners with last season's film on hand.

 

We've seen QB progress halted by film study many, many times. I don't expect Tyrod to go Trent/JP or even Fitz level bad but he already nearly lead the league in 3 and outs and couldn't possibly protect the ball any better.........so there are holes in his game and he could actually get worse if those punts turn into pics.

 

This is why I valued a #1A WR as the most important need.

 

If you have an elite talent opposite Watkins you force both safeties to vacate the LOS which exposes them to the run game and diminishes the effect of games they may want to play with Tyrod.

 

There are some good nuggets in here, but consider:

 

-- just because other teams have film on Roman's run offense doesn't mean they can stop it

-- last season was a learning process for everyone (1st year in system)

-- the right side of the OL can't get any worse, can it?

-- you pick on "holes in his game" but this was Taylor's first year as a starter...isn't it reasonable to expect progression, not regression?

-- multiple injuries limited the effectiveness of the Bills' passing game

-- I'm the last one to rely on a 6th round draft pick but Listenbee (or a healthy Goodwin) could help relieve the pressure you reference

[Nanker]

Ok Boater. I admit you are probably smarter on that account, LOL.

I do want to thank Nanker, who did actually spend his valuable time to provide me with valuable information on using the board software. Thank You!

You're welcome. After coming on strong like an azzhat, I tried to make amends. Good luck with your posting.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

So basically you're upset because our GM didn't do what you wanted them to? You wanted to try and have a team that races the other team to 50 without the players to stop them from scoring?

 

First of all.......I'm not upset. I don't expect the team to make good decisions all the time. As Belichick has said.......and proven.......you really have to make bad decisions all the time to not compete in this league.

 

The Bills are still in the "lot's of bad decisions" stage after years of basically screwing every pooch possible.

 

Rex great D in his first two years with the Jets was full of players who couldn't play in many other schemes. Vets. Guys that seemed washed up or bad free agent signings by the previous regime. Signing the "other" LB who played next to Ray Lewis instead of paying for the real thing.

 

That defense looked like a sh*t-show on paper but veterans are better suited for the D.........which is actually a scheme that isn't primarily about making big plays but rather forcing punts.

 

The best thing about RR defense is that it requires much less premium talent between the hashes.........role players..........and yet in NY they kept drafting DL in round 1 and whadduya know......they kept getting worse.

 

I mean honestly, what is the difference between a $4M nose tackle tying up two blockers and $16M Dareus tying up two blockers?

 

Rex......and apparently DW.......do not seem to know either so don't feel bad.

[nucci]

 

Identifying and having the ability to exploit a weakness are two different things.

 

The Eagles game last year was a case where Chip Kelly had game planned against that Stanford offense for years and he took away much of what Roman wanted to do by shooting gaps and disrupting the run game before it started.

 

I love me some Tyrod........when people ask me what I like about this years draft I tell them "that we already have Tyrod"........but he was no surgeon as a passer and chain mover. He's got holes in his game and expecting no-hands Hankerson and skates Woods to take any pressure off of Watkins is a lot to ask. Tyrod is in a contract year......if teams take away the deep passing option and he struggles to move the chains it is going to take a ton of restraint for him to not start pressing and then those punts become turnovers.

you make some good points but you use the word "if' a lot......Just shows we don't know what will happen. I expect the offense to continue to improve...including Taylor....I still have big concerns about the defense

[GunnerBill]

 

 

2) Roman's unique rush offense with these exact same players

 

 

Sorry BADOL - I don't buy this. Roman's been a coordinator in this league long enough not to be a surprise for anyone even allowing for different personnel. He is an expert at coordinating the run game, he is creative, can trick you and can switch running game styles mid game in a way most coordinators are totally unable to do. His rushing rankings as an NFL OC:

 

8th

4th

3rd

4th

1st

 

The film being out on Tyrod I do buy as a problem. I don't believe there will be any significant drop off in the running production unless we suffer major injuries.

[dave mcbride]

Biggest issue at play here is that other teams now have lots of film on:

 

1) Tyrod Taylor

 

2) Roman's unique rush offense with these exact same players

 

Last year both caught many opponents by surprise.

 

The assumption is that experience together will mean progress but with little change planned and clear questions about the right side of the OL(think Eagles game implosion) and Tyrod's ability to read defenses and throw receivers open the offense then becomes a stationary target for defensive game planners with last season's film on hand.

 

We've seen QB progress halted by film study many, many times. I don't expect Tyrod to go Trent/JP or even Fitz level bad but he already nearly lead the league in 3 and outs and couldn't possibly protect the ball any better.........so there are holes in his game and he could actually get worse if those punts turn into pics.

 

This is why I valued a #1A WR as the most important need.

 

If you have an elite talent opposite Watkins you force both safeties to vacate the LOS which exposes them to the run game and diminishes the effect of games they may want to play with Tyrod.

Correction: the right side wasn't the problem in the Eagles game. The problem was Incognito, who was eaten alive by Fletcher Cox. Incognito played really well in the other 15 games, but he manned up afterwards and said that Cox whipped his butt. Cox was one of the most impressive d-linemen in the league that I saw last season, btw.