What a Tuel Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) I think the "because they're cops" crowd ____ (oh never mind, that's more a PPP post). Because of getting burned by the Adrian Peterson case, and the deflategate case, I think the NFL and the Bills will tread very carefully here, and won't be pressured or overbearing. They don't another high profile embarrassment. I believe the NFL and Bills will proceed slowly anf carefully here.. no pressure. It isn't anything about cops being brutal or any of that nonsense. It is because for a civilian, a police officer usually comes from the position of authority, and knowing the rules. In a lot of people's minds, McCoy is already is in the wrong because he got into an altercation with a man of the law. Naive maybe, but the public isn't often informed of the whole picture, and is prone to making snap judgments. I think you're overall making good points, but I don't think the public/NFL are only interested because, off duty cops. I think if McCoy were caught ibeating up Joe Civilian over a bottle of bubbly that would not be a good look for him, or for the NFL; the fact that the other party involved were off-duty cops just means we have the police union squawking like an egg-laying chicken at sunrise every day. Either way I think you're correct, that once it is verified that it wasn't a situation of "innocent partiers savagely beaten by pack of NFL footballers" but maybe "innocent footballers partying interrupted by salty cop" the public will roll its eyes and lose interest. True, but I think it adds a sort of significance to it, that wouldn't have been there. We surely would have heard about it, but wasn't there a fight last year between some bills players at a bar? I can't recall the details, and I am pretty sure no one went to the hospital (which is also significant). Wish I could remember what happened. It disappeared pretty quickly though. Edited February 25, 2016 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 They're even covering this in the UK: https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/lesean-mccoy-case-may-hinge-182100384.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) True, but I think it adds a sort of significance to it, that wouldn't have been there. We surely would have heard about it, but wasn't there a fight last year between some bills players at a bar? I can't recall the details, and I am pretty sure no one went to the hospital (which is also significant). Wish I could remember what happened. It disappeared pretty quickly though. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/178152-the-bickering-bills-are-back-rumor/?p=3549017 "There was a fight.... I can confirm that it involved marquise goodwin as an aggressor. Robert woods was involved as well. Witnesses also said Sammy Watkins and Aaron Williams were part of the group but did not get involved. I know first hand of one female that was injured and another that was threatened with a punch in the face from Robert Woods. A bar employee lost 2 teeth. The individuals that reached out to me are deciding whether or not to pursue the incident. (I'm sure u can guess what I do for a living) The people I'm dealing with are more insulted and pissed off than anything...they were there for a 21st birthday party and were swarmed by this group" Perhaps RalphOP83 could be pinged if someone knows him to ask him what happened. Lost teeth count as "permanent injuries" at a higher functional level than minor scars IMO - one kind of needs one's teeth to eat Wings and other fine nourishment, and while dentures can be indistinguishable from the real thing, they're a PITA to care for..... Edited February 25, 2016 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/178152-the-bickering-bills-are-back-rumor/?p=3549017 "There was a fight.... I can confirm that it involved marquise goodwin as an aggressor. Robert woods was involved as well. Witnesses also said Sammy Watkins and Aaron Williams were part of the group but did not get involved. I know first hand of one female that was injured and another that was threatened with a punch in the face from Robert Woods. A bar employee lost 2 teeth. The individuals that reached out to me are deciding whether or not to pursue the incident. (I'm sure u can guess what I do for a living) The people I'm dealing with are more insulted and pissed off than anything...they were there for a 21st birthday party and were swarmed by this group" Perhaps RalphOP83 could be pinged if someone knows him to ask him what happened. Lost teeth count as "permanent injuries" at a higher functional level than minor scars IMO - one kind of needs one's teeth to eat Wings and other fine nourishment, and while dentures can be indistinguishable from the real thing, they're a PITA to care for..... I don't know the end result but it kind of fits my point if it was true. We heard about it, there were the classic "we don't want thugs on our team" vs "we just want them to play football" arguments, and it just kind of went away. I don't think there were fines or suspensions. (If all of that was actually true, that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/178152-the-bickering-bills-are-back-rumor/?p=3549017 "There was a fight.... I can confirm that it involved marquise goodwin as an aggressor. Robert woods was involved as well. Witnesses also said Sammy Watkins and Aaron Williams were part of the group but did not get involved. I know first hand of one female that was injured and another that was threatened with a punch in the face from Robert Woods. A bar employee lost 2 teeth. The individuals that reached out to me are deciding whether or not to pursue the incident. (I'm sure u can guess what I do for a living) The people I'm dealing with are more insulted and pissed off than anything...they were there for a 21st birthday party and were swarmed by this group" Perhaps RalphOP83 could be pinged if someone knows him to ask him what happened. Lost teeth count as "permanent injuries" at a higher functional level than minor scars IMO - one kind of needs one's teeth to eat Wings and other fine nourishment, and while dentures can be indistinguishable from the real thing, they're a PITA to care for..... You're a dentist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 You're a dentist? By "you're" above, I assume you mean the OP I quoted, RalphOP83? He publically identifiedh himself as a corporate finance lawyer, I believe. I don't know the end result but it kind of fits my point if it was true. We heard about it, there were the classic "we don't want thugs on our team" vs "we just want them to play football" arguments, and it just kind of went away. I don't think there were fines or suspensions. (If all of that was actually true, that is) So in this case, three things are fueling the publicity: 1) is that the other parties involved filed a criminal complaint and lawyered up with pricy lawyers, suggesting an imminent civil suit 2) is that the other parties involved were actually police, thus could influence sending the case to the DA, by inference with recommended charges of aggravated assault 3) is that Philadelphia has a very strong police union whose president appears to believe that one strengthens a case and moves it forward by press publicity IOW, it's not so much the fact that the alleged assault involved police officers and this makes the videos worse in the eyes of the public, it's that the police officers by nature of their profession are positioned to influence the judicial process. If Goodwin and his buds had punched a high-priced lawyer and knocked out two of his teeth, and said lawyer then hired a representative skilled in PR and filed a criminal complaint, we'd likely have heard about it for weeks if not months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 IOW, it's not so much the fact that the alleged assault involved police officers and this makes the videos worse in the eyes of the public, it's that the police officers by nature of their profession are positioned to influence the judicial process. If Goodwin and his buds had punched a high-priced lawyer and knocked out two of his teeth, and said lawyer then hired a representative skilled in PR and filed a criminal complaint, we'd likely have heard about it for weeks if not months In the McCoy case it is the judicial system pushing back the police not only for those involved (off duty cops) but for those who pushed the case in the department. It was the DA's office that put a halt to the dash of filing for an arrest warrant. There was unseemly clamoring coming from the mayor's office that has now gone silent. The union has made a lot of bombastic statements (no surprise) that have been ignored by the DA's office that is reviewing the case. In this case the facts that are known and the facts that are not known will determine what the DA's office decides to do. Belligerent outbursts and unsubstantiated claims will have little influence in this case. Or another way of putting it is that the system is working mostly because the DA's office is properly doing its job. This certainly is a high profile case because of the people involved. But the reality is in this type of brawl situation where claims and counter claims are made it is difficult to unravel the facts from conflicting statements coming from the people who witnessed the same chaotic event. Don't be so sure that the Police Department, especially the upper rank, wants this case to continue. They are very embarrassed (including a large segment of the rank and file) over the publicity this case has garnered much of it about the boorish conduct of the police involved. You are painting with a very wide brush in your depiction of good guys and bad guys. As is usually the case the truth is in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 By "you're" above, I assume you mean the OP I quoted, RalphOP83? He publically identifiedh himself as a corporate finance lawyer, I believe. So in this case, three things are fueling the publicity: 1) is that the other parties involved filed a criminal complaint and lawyered up with pricy lawyers, suggesting an imminent civil suit 2) is that the other parties involved were actually police, thus could influence sending the case to the DA, by inference with recommended charges of aggravated assault 3) is that Philadelphia has a very strong police union whose president appears to believe that one strengthens a case and moves it forward by press publicity IOW, it's not so much the fact that the alleged assault involved police officers and this makes the videos worse in the eyes of the public, it's that the police officers by nature of their profession are positioned to influence the judicial process. If Goodwin and his buds had punched a high-priced lawyer and knocked out two of his teeth, and said lawyer then hired a representative skilled in PR and filed a criminal complaint, we'd likely have heard about it for weeks if not months 1-3, Well stated. I don't if know you're saying the police can influence, or if you're saying that's the common public perception. But I have faith the process will be neutral: Police - DA - Judges regard one another with skepticism. (YMMV by locale) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) .... There was unseemly clamoring coming from the mayor's office that has now gone silent..... ...Or another way of putting it is that the system is working mostly because the DA's office is properly doing its job..... The Mayor's blathering made me wince. When you're the Executive, you limit yourself to boring statements like "justice blah blah blah facts blah blah, let the process play out, blah blah, will pursue all appropriate means blah blah." Allot like Rex speak at the combine. You don't make like BHO regarding the Cambridge Police. You don't make like the Baltimore DA regarding the Balt. Police. You don't make like Trump "I'm going to prosecute Hillary when I'm President" (if he's elected President, that statement makes it very difficult to prosecute HRC) You DO make like DA Sedita and Hamburg Police regarding Patrick Kane. Edited February 25, 2016 by boater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I will say that the mayor's office has gone silence since the early days where it looked like an arrest was imminent. To me, just looking at everything, the reason why the DA hasn't filed any charges is because even if he won, he'd look bad doing so. I can't imagine any case which he could win without putting the two off duty officers on the stand, under oath. And then, at that point, things such as "how much were you drinking that night?", "did you drive under the influence before or after this event occured?", "Did you put one of the defendants into a choke hold? What's is your entire history of police brutality or excessive force complaints." And "why weren't you charged for any of the things you've been forced to admit to under oath" become fair game. No one in the city gov, not the DA, not the PPD, not the FOP want those questions asked or answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Enough already. Let's skip to the sentencing. How many years in the slammer do we think Shady will get, and how soon will he get locked up behind bars so the Philly police are once again safe from this terrible menace to public safety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 1-3, Well stated. I don't if know you're saying the police can influence, or if you're saying that's the common public perception. But I have faith the process will be neutral: Police - DA - Judges regard one another with skepticism. (YMMV by locale) Boater, I didn't write as clearly as I should. I should have said "police officers, by nature of their profession, are in a position to influence whether charges are brought" or something like that - which is fact, police don't need no stinkin' warrant if they believe they have probable cause a crime was committed, they can make an arrest on the spot. They can also transmit the results of their investigation and recommend charges, which through the educational properties of TBD I have now learned a citizen can do as well, but I think the DA gives more weight to police reports. I didn't intend to imply that I felt the police can influence the judicial process, though I do feel police testimony carries more weight than a private citizen in some circumstances. I do think there is often a strong symbiotic relationship between the DA's office and the police. The DA relies on the police to provide the evidence they need for the case; the police rely on the DA's office to bring their work to closure in the courts. That's certainly the perception here. Judging by the Philly DA's statements and the posturing of the FOP president in the press, I would say maybe, not so much in Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Don't be so sure that the Police Department, especially the upper rank, wants this case to continue. They are very embarrassed (including a large segment of the rank and file) over the publicity this case has garnered much of it about the boorish conduct of the police involved. You are painting with a very wide brush in your depiction of good guys and bad guys. As is usually the case the truth is in the middle. I don't think I'm painting "good guys" and "bad guys" at all in the post to which you're responding, though I understand why you see it that way. It's a fact that the police, by virtue of their profession, have immense powers to influence the judicial process. They can decide whether or not they have probable cause and arrest or not arrest someone at the scene of the crime with no input at all from the prosecutors or judiciary until after the fact, and the decisions they make on the spot as to how to proceed have tremendous influence on the eventual outcome of a case if one is brought. They can investigate and send the results of the case and their recommendation to the prosecutors, or they can sit on it, or they can not investigate/conduct an incomplete investigation - again, these decisions have tremendous influence on the eventual outcome of a case if one is brought. I now know a citizen can make an arrest or file a private criminal complaint, but that's so rare that until this thread I'd never heard of it. These police powers are neither good nor bad intrinsically, though they can be used either way. They're just how it is. I'm pretty sure, now that more stories are emerging, that the upper ranks of the PD do NOT want this case to continue. I would not be surprised if McNesby is proving an embarrassment to many a police officer as well, or if his saber-rattling questioning the DA's courage and the PD's respect for him aren't misaligned with the views of many LEO on how to proceed, even those who want the case to continue. "Publically call out and impugn the person empowered to take this forward" is not widely embraced as a successful strategy to influence people. Edited February 25, 2016 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Did McCoy get good news? http://www.crossingbroad.com/2016/02/heres-a-cryptic-post-from-lesean-mccoy.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Maybe they found the tapes the drunk cops destroyed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Did McCoy get good news? http://www.crossingbroad.com/2016/02/heres-a-cryptic-post-from-lesean-mccoy.html Thank you Lor D? Is his lawyer Swedish? Lor Dahlberg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDS73 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Maybe they found the tapes the drunk cops destroyed ? This isn't the 80's. Nobody uses tapes anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 @viccarucci Source close to LeSean McCoy doesn't expect #Bills RB to be charged in nightclub brawl, but that someone w him during the incident could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 @viccarucci Source close to LeSean McCoy doesn't expect #Bills RB to be charged in nightclub brawl, but that someone w him during the incident could be. Well that just took the air out of a collection of balloons in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 @viccarucci Source close to LeSean McCoy doesn't expect #Bills RB to be charged in nightclub brawl, but that someone w him during the incident could be. Doesn't shock me. If they put the bottle in someone's hand, that would be aggravated assault, and I can see that being the sticking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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